US bombers fly over the Gulf amid tensions with Iran

Well said and nail on the head.

 

You have things totally backwards ?! - It is Israel who targets civilians.

You are spouting made up nonsense that has no relation to reality.

 

So, was Aayish the Engineer a 'civilian' to you? Maybe in a technical sense.
And the Iranian nuclear scientist Fakhrizadeh was a 'civilian' to you? Maybe.
Aayish was killed by C3 in a mobile phone, not harming those in his room.
Fakhrizadeh's wife was not killed in the attack, despite being in the car with
her husband.
The precision in dispatching these two amazes me.

 

The scientist was a civilian. If this was reversed - and someone was targeting US citizens who are in any related to our nuclear program - you would be calling these folks civilians .. so I call hypocrisy on this point.

That said - - even if you wish to call the nuke scientist a legitimate target - so that we do not count this fellow as a civilian into the tally of Israel's atrocities - Israel is guilty of targeting way more civilians than Iran.

I can not think of an example of Iran targeting civilians - especially not directly - but I am sure there must be a few.

Israel on the other hand - how many examples would you like. Israel's own Pilots were so upset by the number of missions which targeted civilians - that a bunch of them banded together and refused to fly.

Your perspective is way off the mark .. and does not reflect reality.

 

Hypocrisy? Maybe yes, maybe no. Depends on the context. I would not have a problem with an American
nuclear scientist who works for the military. Reason? America is already a nuclear power and has a civilian
government - not even Trump could push the button.
But Iran having the bomb is profoundly different - it would more or less spell the end of nuclear non-proliferation
as Egypt, Saui Arabia and Turkey have said they will go nuclear if Iran does. And Iran has made nuclear threats
against Israel.

Why would Israel target civilians. You have to think about that. There are, what, over two million Arabs living in
Israel? Don't hear of mass deaths of Israeli Arabas. Why waste your munitions and political capital by killing ordinary
Palestinians? If you had to kill an Arab, wouldn't it be better to go for some guy who was involved with ISIS, or Islamic
Jihad or Hamas military wing?

 

There are numbers reason why Israel targets civilians but this matters not - the fact of the matter is that they do - and do it a whole lot .. and have been criticized by the UN for doing this more times than one can shake a stick at.

You have yet to come up with a single example of Iran targeting civilians - but as stated - I sure there are some .. not even close to the "intentional" killing of Civilians that Israel regularly engages in.

What does this have to do with ISIS/Hamas ? This nuke scientist was neither - and there are many reasons why munitions are used - and often the target are not just civilians - but include suspected bad guys. In other cases - they kill civilians when there are no bad guys.

Clearly the IDF does not share your belief that killing civilians is a waste of munitions - nor political capital. Iran does not do this.

Do you realize we - and Israel and most every other nation including China - Russia and so on, have signed agreements not to do this kind of targeted assassination.

Can you imagine if Iran started killing US Generals, and/or Bureaucratic and/or Political Elite - what would your reaction to this be ? Would you be running around trying to apologize for Iran ? - somehow I don't think so.

This is another one of those "Do as we say - not as we do" moments.

 

Interesting Perspective from Al Jezera- objectivity that you will not find in the US media.

 

Agree about the kids in Yemen. The Kurds are a separate issue - and completely unrelated w/r to "cowardice" .. so this is a strange conflation.

Syria is a friggen mess .. and the deeper you get into it .. the deeper into the land of State False Narrative you get .. and it gets really deep in Syria .. which is why the topic has yet to be addressed out loud .. like was done after the Iraq war.

This was the State Sponsored Propaganda Machine going a step way too far.

You want to talk Cowardice in Syria ? Seriously - do you seriously want to have this conversation Badaboom ? .surely you must have visited some threads detailing what Obama did in Syria .. actions detailed in the "Stop Arming Terrorist Act" tabled in 2017 with bipartisan co-sponsors.

No ? Not top of mind ? Let me know where to start - as we compare the Cowardice of Obama in Syria w/r to the Cowardice of Trump ?

Do I need to fill you in on the basics of the war - not sure - trying to shorten things here if you could give me an idea of what your understanding of the conflict is.

 

You're over selling iranian military capability.

Their navy wouldn't survive the trip toward north america in time of war. Iran isn't able to **** up israel, which they have access to via its proxy, and you think they can **** the USA on the other side of the globe? Stop living in fantasy land man!

And what is it with your obsession about sinking an aircraft carrier? It's just a ship, the USA lost quite a few in WW2 and it didn't really mattered in the end. This isn't a game of chess were you can't replace a fallen piece.

You also, intentionnaly I guess, skipped over the fact the the USA isn't dependent on the Straight of Ormuz for anything. The Euro are, but not the USA.

Also, all of this is dependent on Trump having the balls to actually do something, which we both know he won't. He's been a bully and a coward all of his life, this won't change in the next 18 days.

 

Bu,bu,but Obamaaaaaaa.

Is that all you can contribute?

Are you a fa-fan of the tiny testies chihuahua? That would explain a lot!

 

Since I have yet to detail the capacities being discussed - you are building a big strawman right off the hop - which is never a good start.

Navy ? to do what ? What fantasy is it are you are dreaming up - and trying to pin on me. Not good.

Seems you that is obsessed .. "No big Deal" you say .. no bid deal for Iran to sink a US carrier as retaliation .. OK .. who is living in the fantasy here ? I need a serious reality check if your perspective has legitimacy - but frankly - off the rocker is what is coming into my head - as a term for someone who thinks Iran doing this would be no big deal..

Indeed we lost a few ships in WW2 - and how many carriers since then ?

I did not skip over anything .. and once again you engage in false accusation and fallacy - of which your post contains not much else.

Hormuz was a small part of the discussion .. no need to go into detail ..as this would be a huge deal to the US .. regardless of our dependence or lack thereof.

This was a really bad post ..

The balls to do what exactly .. how should have we have responded when Iran hit our base with ballistic missiles ?

This should be good.

 

So many words, so little content.

You're really bad at this, and not really all that gifted. Well maybe in a special olympic way...

No wonder you're a fa-fan of chihuahua Trump. Now, go back to your fantasy where Iran is a a military might able to launch cruise missile at the USA whitout having to cross half the globe to do it and without getting noticed and tracked/sunk.

While you're there read up on what it takes to sink an aircraft carrier, especially one that is protected by a full complement of cruiser and destroyer in time of war.

In the mean time, you'll be in good company on the iggy list.

 

Can't stand Trump - and my arguments are way better than yours against him - posted all over these boards for the past 4 years .. scathing rebuke .. from which Red can not rebut.

So this is like your 5th fallacy in 5 sentences .. including the previous post.

And of course Obama/Biden as this is part of the Topic .. did they have nothing to do with the war in Syria ? You are saying Trump is a Coward .. because his actions in the war in Syria. You don't qualify your accusation with anything other than "didn't support the Kurds"

Obama/Biden did not support the Kurd's either - as per Policy.. - we were too busy arming, supplying and supporting Al Qaeda and spawn - many of which went on to form ISIS - an act which caused this mess to begin with.

Now you whine "Bad Trump - Bad Trump" having no clue of the intricacies of the topic on which you speak - making accusations that you have not backed up nor expanded upon - calling Trump "A Coward" .. for continuation of an Obama/Biden era Policy - in a conversation about Biden Policy.

Total projection/strawman - Badaboom !

 

Projection again - followed by insults and fallacy again .. That you do what you accuse me of (falsely) in the same post as the accusation... is demented but .. somewhat priceless

Iran can easily put a few cruise missiles on a merchant vessel .. and you have no clue about what it takes to sink a carrier - using modern missile technology .. so once again .. you are projecting your failings on to me .. I am very well read on the topic.

You seriously need to stop projecting your failings onto others .. "Projection is a psychological defense mechanism in which individuals attribute characteristics they find unacceptable in themselves to another person" https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/ps...ction can be said to,or relate to them easily.

that and the fallacy every second sentence.

 

I doubt it, I suspect they won't want to antagonize the US before Biden takes power, hoping he'll go back to a policy of appeasement.

 

Depends on how Iran gauges the situation - don't think the calculus is that easy though - many factors to consider.

Trump's move turned out to be a blunder - Iran moving closer rather than further from nukes. Iran wants back to the the Original agreement.

Germany has thrown its hat into the gauntlet - and moved towards the mentally unstable Trump position - to include ballistics.

Iran would never agree to such a thing .. and so this quashes the deal. There are numerous other nations in the region with Ballistic missiles - including arch enemy El Saud .. and of course Israel .. but you also have a bunch of others who have ballistics - Pakistan Egypt and others.

So how does one justify Saudi Arabia getting to have ballistics .. but Iran not - while the two sides are engaged in a proxy war.

This is not going to happen . . The nuke issue needs to be dealt with separately ..

 

This is how desperate they are to peg Trump as a warmonger.

Trump withdrawing troops is an act of war, not peace.

 

Iran believes Trump is intent on starting a war or the killing of their proxis in Iraq while Trump is still in office and has warned him try anything and US bases in the region have had it....and they showed the US that that could be true with their demonstration after the murder of Soleimani. They have also been having a go at him through tweets, being aware how much Trump likes to play that game.

Iran fears Trump preparing attack in final weeks in office (msn.com)

 

The clock is ticking. Get as much hysteria in as you can before time runs out, and Trump goes down in the history books as The President of Peace.

 

What on earth are you talking about. Hysteria? It frightens you that Iran has the ability to destroy your bases? Then stop killing its people. Act properly to others and usually they will act well towards you.

 

Yes, the same hysteria we heard a year ago when Trump started the war with Iran that never happened.

Have you forgotten that?

 

The hysteria belongs to you. Try to deal with the current issue. This one is just for you Creasy Tvedt and I imagine it is your favourite news site.

Trump, others linked to Soleimani killing ‘will not be safe on Earth,’ Iran official warns | Fox News

Better get into your shelter quick.

 

Keep whipping up that hysteria.

 

So nothing to say about the thread. Just projecting your fears onto others. No point in continuing if you are too afraid to discuss the topic.

 

Well, we heard that regarding the Iraq war... and got entangled there for ten years. Shock and awe, remember? And Iran is stronger than Iraq, so...