Was Enoch Powell Right?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Comet, Aug 13, 2011.

  1. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pretty thin attempt at covering his racism: it's not a 'racial phenomenon', but just about the 'cultural phenomenon' of black people!
     
  2. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, it isn't. Holding extremist views about the 'superiority' of ones own nation above all others, to the point or writing supposed works of 'history' simply in order to 'prove' how 'superior' that nation is isn't racism either, as dispicable and dishonest an act of offensive manipulation of the truth as it is. Using the front of being a 'historian' in order to dismiss other nations as being inherently insignificant and inferior on a regular basis on whatever platform is permitted still isn't racism, although it is a vile and disgusting way for a supposed 'academic' to behave.

    However, what he said in that video clip IS racism. Nothing more, nothing less. Blatant racism, despite his attempt to backtrack from it and justify it in the thinly veiled language of 'culture' when challenged.

    Seen exactly the same thing from a certain Nick Griffin, funnily enough. He rarely gets on TV, though - beats me why the BBC keep calling Starkey to spout his nonsense over the airwaves, either on politics or on his version of 'history'.
     
  3. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He's both. Being an extreme cultural supremecist is not neccessarily the same thing as being a racist, although the kind of superiority complex and negative views of things other than one's 'own kind' that are involved with both often mean the both go hand in hand, as is apparent in his case.

    No, I'm using it to denote an extremist bigot that views other races as inherently inferior to his own.
     
  4. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

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    Basically......
     
  5. wopper stopper

    wopper stopper New Member

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    bemoaning cultural decline is hardly bigotry.

    It's something that happens all the time.

    "the kids are not a well behaved as they used to be."
    "the TV shows are more raunchy than years ago."
    "Rap music sucks."
    "they don't make movies like that any more."


    if you say black culture has influenced ___________.

    it (*)(*)(*)(*)ed well better be positive or it's overt racism, right?
     
  6. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    He's not a racist. He's something else. He's an ultariain. Excuse my spelling. Basically he thinks one culture, despite it's flaws, is better than the rest. It's their duty to spread this culture. It's one of the reasons why people are imperalist.
     
  7. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Bemoaning cultural decline simply on the grounds that it isn't 'white' enough anymore is.
     
  8. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He's that, but he's a racist bigot too!
     
  9. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's nonsense.
    British culture is being destroyed by the white yobs who drink, riot and fight at soccer games, by arrogant bankers and stockbrokers who place personal greed above any notion of country or community or even decency, by corrupt media in collusion with politicians and police to betray the public trust.
    The nihilism of the ignorant and some youth is not limited to any one race or ethnic group.
    You are merely parroting the racist prattle of people who either don't know or don't care about what is affecting British culture and are eager to play demagogue to promote their bigotry.
     
  10. wopper stopper

    wopper stopper New Member

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    is he correct in his assertations?
     
  11. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    I'm thinking because he's an ultariain (Once again, bad spelling), he's those things as well.
     
  12. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

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    I've covered up nothing, since you never made you case. You just did a drive-by ad hom attack.

    _
     
  13. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

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    You just said apparent. You don't even fully believe your own position. LOL!

    Western civilization is superior to many other cultures.

    _
     
  14. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, he isn't.
     
  15. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I didn't accuse you of covering up, I accused him of attempting to justify his racism by using a thin (and frankly transparent) veneer of saying it's about 'culture', the same thin veneer we see regularly from the racists in the BNP. My 'attack' on him in calling him an extremist, cultural supremecist and racist was entirely justified, on the basis of his comments (and his previous comments).
     
  16. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is apparent that not everyone fully understands the definition of the word in the context in which it was being used.
    That is the kind of assertion made by cultural supremecists like Starkey, though in Starkey's case it would be that 'English culture' is 'superior' to every other culture. It is, of course, complete and total nonsense, and the kind of position dreamed up by people who see things (and particularly history, like Starkey) through a filter intended to prove their own superiority to others. The kind of position of those that think their own culture can do no wrong, and that others can do no right, and that everyone else must be assimulated utterly into their great, 'superior' culture so that they become 'better', and if they don't want to do that must be threatened and forced to. It's the kind of position of those who believe that other cultures that still resist 'improvement' must be wiped out, or at the very least safely segregated away where they can have no 'evil' influence. It's the kind of position of 'us against the untermensch' that brought the world all kinds of Imperialism, segregation, apartheid, slavery and genocide, not to mention terrorist attacks.

    It's a belief based on bigotry, not on fact, but there will unfortunately always be those in society who believe that anything 'different' must just be 'wrong' in that way. The rest of us decent people in society realise that 'different' doesn't mean 'evil', and will continue to strive to ignore and/or resist the outpourings of thinly veiled mindless bigotry of Starkey, Griffin and their ilk.
     
  17. Guz2

    Guz2 New Member

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    If Western cultire isn't superior then why are people in the Arab world (not to mention other places) fighting and dying in order to overthrow their Middle Eastern-style Islamic theocracies and in replace them with Western-style liberal democracies? Why are millions of immigrants leaving their native lands in order to settle in Europe and live Western lifestyles? We have freedoms in the West that we take for granted, and yet that in other parts of the world people simply do not have. If you believe that Western culture isn't superior I suggest you go and live in a country like Syria for a few months and see how superior you think their culture is. Have fun.

    And I believe in the total assimilation of immigrants. Not because I feel that English culture is superior but because it's neccessary for the unity of the nation. We are seeing an increasingly fractured society which is not being helped by immigrants taking over areas and turning them into, essentially, a foreign country. I think it's horrid. England is England and should be kept English, and I don't mean English in the ethnic sense but in the cultural sense. There's nothing racist or bigoted in saying that in saying that, NOBODY of any race, creed or nationality wants to see their country turned into a foreign land. Apart from, it would appear, Guardian readers and Labour voters. Multiculturalism is a liberal daydream. In fact it's not even a daydream because that implies you'd believe it if you were awake.

    Anyway, about Starkey. accusing someone of racism seems to have the ultimate debate-muffling power. But, whilst he wasn't completely right, he had a point. This is what happens when you don't teach posterity what it means to be English. It's what happens when whites are completely ignorant of their own culture and identity, when thanks to leftist social engineering they are told constantly that pride in being black is fine, pride in being Asian is fine but if you show any notion of being proud of being white you are immediately accused of racism and lumped in with the unsavoury characters in the NF or the BNP. They have started adapting foreign mannerisms because they have no idea at all of their own culture. It's time we got off this post-colonial guilt trip and started trying to rebuild our national identity.
     
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  18. Guz2

    Guz2 New Member

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    I don't know what word you were trying to spell but is Starkey subscribes to the doctrine he did not reveal it in his speech. Can you really not see that wanting to protect your OWN culture in your OWN country is entirely different from wanting to spread your culture to other countries and forcing your it upon them? If anything, the attitude of immigrants who refuse to integrate into our society is more imperialist than that of David Starkey.
     
  19. wopper stopper

    wopper stopper New Member

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    so the UK has not been influenceed by "black culture" in the least. Right?
     
  20. wopper stopper

    wopper stopper New Member

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    now who is taking the extreme position?

    Starkey is a chreerleader for British culture and traditions.

    that, according to you, is bigotry. SMH
     
  21. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    What culture and traditions; white, Anglo-Saxon protestant culture and traditions? Because that is what Starkey is 'cheerleading'. If you want to support a bigoted racist who considers his white, conservative culture superior to any other, then be my guest. 'The whites have become black'; just one of his 'non-racist' comments...
     
  22. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    These islands have been influenced in many ways by all kind of different cultures for several thousand years.
     
  23. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, Starkey is a 'cheerleader' for the superiority and supremacy of a very narrow and idealistic view of one particular presumed formerly 'pure' and 'nationally universal' culture, which he and his kind believe to be simply better than every other culture. It's based on a nonsense postition of a supposed historical Anglo-Saxon-based monoculture which never, ever actually existed on these perpetually multicultural islands.

    What exactly are 'British culture and traditions' supposed to be, anyway? Not that Starkey has any interest in them, of course - his interest is only in English monoculturalism.
     
  24. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not SO fast thar Bubba.When Bill Cosby and Sydney Poitier do a
    rap album together,I'll bite.
     
  25. Guz2

    Guz2 New Member

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    All of them European.
     

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