What are your REAL opinions on socialism and the welfare system?

Just based on political leanings we often assume people's views on socialism and welfare. But is it true? At what level do we judge the spending / revenue model? Should its evaluation be made at the state level, county level or city level? For example if the country takes in 4.8 trillion in tax revenue and the state you live in contributed 11 billion to that amount, how much of the federal spending should go to your state? Percentage wise it seems like it should only be 11/4800 = 0.002291. So proportionately the state should receive about 0.2% of total spending. Once that state has been allocated that money what percent should the counties get. The state would need to provide for certain statewide expenditures like infrastructure, savings for disasters etc... but the rest should trickle down to lower levels to allocate. Should counties only be allocated the percentage share of the tax revenue they contributed? The same can also be applied to cites within the county. It seems this system would allow everyone to get their fair share. Your community gets back what it contributed proportionately and no more. Would this be the ideal capitalism model and eliminate the welfare system?

 

All of the STIMULUS spread around to businesses corporations and private citizens was socialist welfare. At least 40 of our 50 states are on socialist welfare every year getting back far more than $1 for every $1 then send to the Federal treasury, and the majority of them are RED STATES. Mitch the Rich Bitches Kentucky would be a prime welfare state.

 

I was hoping to keep red state / blue state, rural county urban county out of it. I was just wondering how many people really would like to have a system where the community they lived in is only financed buy their proportionate share of the tax payments.

 

Since only a small percentage of our states pay more than they receive from the Federal government, most of them do not realize their state is a welfare state. Ignorance is bliss.

 

Would be nice, but you just cant. I am in Florida now 20 years from Ohio and Delaware. Ohio was a sh*thole in the early 80s, thus went to del. where you could still get a job out of high school making great money. Florida NOW is a Hunnyhole sucking trillions from the north.. That is what Republicans lack in knowledge.
Trump talks about Blue, red, dem, repub. yet all the money he made, and millions other they bring to Florida. No wonder there is no TAX in Florida and the Southern bumpkins complain that the NORTH isnt holding its own. Think about how many years the Northern states Pumped Trillions into the Government thru taxes and it benefitted the south.

Today, there are a few million Floridians that receive their Pension checks from the Northern states right into FLorida for spending. The state of NY, NJ, Penn. Mass, Conn, Ohio, Ill. Mich. and all the cities in those very states pay out billions per month to people in the South. How does the city of Rochester, NY come up with money to pay for 25k employees that retired and dont live, eat, or work in the state anymore ?

The system we set up in the 50s was a good one, if only banksters and the crooked Globalist were not allowed to pilfer it as a piggy bank. You cant Print your way out of this and one day, within the next 20 years all Pension funds will fail, as the Dollar collapses. This Country for all its greatness of past will be nothing more than a partial 3rd world Country because we allowed the Politicians and Globalists to destroy it out of Greed while we watched TV.

 

As to your statement, if you can get free money without working why wouldnt you ? Especially if there isnt a JOB to pay you a fair wage. Those fair wages are MOSTLY Gone. But for every 10 willing to collect, there is ONE GUY that works hard, makes good money and puts the GUILT Trip on everyone else. "If I can do it, so can you " There response in the 90s and 00s was... Go back to school and educate, then with a college degree you will do fine. That was a joke then and now.

DOnt listen to the RW Think tanks who get billions to post as PRO Trump, Pro - wallstreet, Pro - Everything is OK... Keep that money in the 401k and SOON everything will turn around. Been hearing that Garbage going back to 2000. All they have done is add debt, printed money, make the rich super wealthy and GUT, hollow out the working class and economy.
Leave if you can

 

That's what happens when progressive areas have such high costs of living, and inflation of the dollar in local economics.

They get burned when it comes time to pay the piper on a national basis.

 

This always cracks me up, people retire and move to Florida with their huge pensions and blue states are stuck with the bill

Karma is a bitch.

PS Democrats wrote the tax laws favoring the south thinking they would hold on to it forever

 

Do you really think it is ignorance. It is such an easy stat to look up. That is why I wanted to break it down from the state to the county to the city. They are probably those that live in the so call welfare states that believe that pay more than their fair share of taxes. I was hoping to see if they believe that is true with the community they live in. It is not hard to look around and judge the amount of people in your community and estimate if they generate enough revenue to pay for all of the amenities the community uses. Roads, health care, schools, policing, fire, bridges, buses, airports, parks, post office, government employee salaries are all the types of things your tax money pays for. Do they think their community pays their own way or do they rely on the generosity of strangers?

 

I am not sure where you move to matters for my question. Just as I don't think red and blue states matter. Basicaly they may retire to a state like Florida but now the taxes from their pensions and investments will represent tax revenue that represent Florida proportion. This may even be a better example of what I am trying to get at. If that revenue they earn in retirement is less than they were earning during their career then their community would get a small distribution of the federal money. The retired person may be wealthy but hospitals, roads, infrastructure, policing etc may decline because we are allocating their share on the tax revenue based on the amount their community is currently paying not what they paid in the past.

 

Schools get most of their funding by local property taxes so look no further than that.

 

Again I was hoping to keep politics out of it but the only reason they would be getting "burned" is if they got back less proportionately of the tax money than they paid. The only way that could happen is if someone else is getting more than they paid which come back to my original question. What is your REAL opinion on socialism and the welfare system? If you support this situation you are kind of for it.

 

I meant all taxes including payroll etc... that are submited to the federal government for redistribution. All other local taxes should already stay in the community so that is fine.

 

Actually I am a libertarian. I think the federal government ought to provide defense, immigration, treaties, and foreign policy and that's about it.

No federal education department, FAA, transportation, etc. All violations of the constitution.

 

This is why socialism fails the Rawlsian test. If the policy is only good if you are in power, then it's not a good policy.

 

Socialism sucks.

 

No, because nowhere does it factor in human nature.

The 'ideal' model is one which allows for our nature. Anything else would be brutally unjust.

 

So are you advocating for a socialist system where others pay the way for those that can't?

 

I kind of agree but it does not seems most people do.

 

Most people didn't agree in Russia pre-Stalin and look what happened. Same with Cuba, Venezuela, etc....and look where it got them.

 

Welfare isn't socialism. Indeed, the origins of the modern welfare state can be traced back to the likes of European imperialist competiton.

Ultimately, given capitalism's innate contradictions, welfare is a crucial part of ensuring its survival. That's the irony of the enfeebled attacks on welfare by right wingers; they don't really appreciate that they're indirectly attacking capitalism. Cute naivety, at best.

 

You got to love how many Republicans bash socialism while demanding more money and socialist programs like social security and Medicare. By definition so these things are socialist programs, ran by the government, but if you look at any tea party rally or Trump rally you always see signs that say " keep your government hands off my medicare"

Just example of tea party hypocrisy. Within the same breath they all call taxes theft and then demand more tax money be given to the programs they use.

 

They aren't socialist. They are merit or public goods. Socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production.

 

Socialist as fascism are both overused words that lost both of them much of their meaning because of language abuse.
Wellfare state is quite old in fact. We can see some aspects of it in late republic and roman empire and late french kingdom. It can be the sign of failing states on some aspects.

 

The welfare state's links with imperialist competition hold today. Then it was about maintaining the physical efficiency of the population. Now its about maintaining the physical efficiency of the unemployed. The Great Reserve Army; a key part in maintaining bargaining power and reproducing capitalist profit.