What are your REAL opinions on socialism and the welfare system?

Easy, the New deal

 

Will you watch this documentary:

 

An act of conservatism, given Roosevelt's failure to embrace Keynesianism. You surely know that, given your neo-Keynesian love affair!

 

You ever figure out what a living wage is?

 

Look at you still dodging! Don't be scared of content! Do you agree, for example, that the New Deal was an act of conservatism as Roosevelt refused to embrace Keynesianism?

 

Socialism is the inevitable slide to a totalitarian state.. because force is the only way to make the proletariat live with it (ever noticed socialism goes hand in hand with gun control?)

 

What a load of guff, particularly given the US's current slide into fascism. Socialism can only go hand in hand with democracy in the workplace. I appreciate mind you that's a scary proposition for those that don't do economics!

 

Welfare is for the tiny fraction of people who just lack the IQ to survive.. I've heard estimates of 10% of the population may fall into that category.

 

There's a lot of irony in this statement!

 

Sooo you are one of those that can complete ignore instances such as Venezuela? The other terrifying thing about socialism is once the govt is in completely control.. you can never be free again.

 

Hahahaha! Look at you clinging on to cliche. How might Venezuela do without US imperialist aggression? Probably a tad better?

I appreciate, mind you, that the idea of a country educating itself is scary for Americans

 

Give me your money.. then I'll consider the dross you spread.. you even a USA citizen? You most certainly have the communist talking points down .. the failure of every communist/socialist country is the fault of the USA. I might add.. that's an impressive likes to messages ratio you have there... want to take a few of my likes...even tho' you didn't earn them? Have a very socialist weekend.. I am out a few days for the glorious fresh air of freedom

 

That's why it will never happen. We've had the freedoms and choices of capitalist democracy for too long to ever accept a 'work-to-eat' default.

 

LOL, no it can't. Socialism is non-surplus, non-labour purchasing 'enterprise'.

Meantime, what fascism is happening in the US, please? What fascist laws have been ratified?

 

Yeah, that's why state communism didn't work. Because America. Nothing to do with the corruption of the model in its State form, or the fact that the majority won't participate in the same way they would had they volunteered. No, none of those reasons.

You keep trying to find 'reasons' why State Socialism never works, all the while ignoring examples of non-State Socialism working exceptionally well. This indicates that you're actually more interested in totalitarianism (which is what State Socialism must be). If you were genuine, you'd be talking about how well it can work outside of the State, when in the broader context of capitalist democracy. You'd be celebrating the fact that in a capitalist democracy, the people have the power to decide on and live the socialist model. Each of us can make that choice.

 

It has nothing to do with ratification of laws. It's all about curuptimg the laws to serve an extralegal dictatorship.

 

You only inform me just how shoddy that fakery really is! Read up on some socialist political economy as I'm 100% correct. There isn't a feasible socialist platform that isn't constructed around democracy.

 

Crikey, we can see how Trump managed to kid himself into power...

 

The most important economic agent in capitalism is the government. Didn't you know?

 

You have no idea what fascism is clearly

 

False. The only role the government should play in a capitalist system is the removal of monopolies and the check to ensure a free and fair market.

 

You can’t have a socialist model in a capitalist country. That’s absurd. Capitalism requires free and fair trade by definition. Socialism by definition restricts free and fair trade.

They are two diametrically opposed ideas.

And we are not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic founded upon democratic principles. That does NOT make us a democracy. And for the record you don’t want us to be a democracy.

 

This thread also exhibits a gross misunderstanding of how economies should be viewed. The most simplistic and accurate method is a spectrum.

At one end you have communism and at the other end you have capitalism. Anything inbetween is socialism. Unfortunately both pure communism and pure capitalism are ideals and not achievable for the long-term.

The most effective and free system would put you as close on that spectrum towards capitalism as you could possibly get. The closer you get to communism, the more freedoms you lose and the less effective the economic system becomes.

 

I have to repeatedly define it for you lot.

Fascism is a jampot of joviality because of its multiple definitions. To highlight its right wing nature, however, there are several elements we can refer to. I'd first refer to Keserich's definition of fascism as 'the reactionary and terroristic dictatorship of finance capital'. I'd then describe how fascism is incompatible with socialist political economy. Zanden (1960, American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol 19, pp 399-411) is a good source. First, the movement is characterised by anti-intellectualism ('obedience, discipline, faith and a religious belief in the cardinal tenets of the Fascist creed are put forth as the supreme values of a perfect Fascist. Individual thinking along independent lines is discouraged. What is wanted is not brains, daring ideas, or speculative faculties, but character pressed in the mold of Fascism'). That is closer to a worship of alienation. Second, we have the belief in the distribution of innate ability (i.e. the Theory of the Elites where those with a natural talent for ruling rule over the masses). A socialist, on the other hand, appreciates the destructiveness of class. Third, we have a reaction against democracy: 'the mass of men is created to be governed and not to govern; is created to be led and not to lead, and is created, finally, to be slaves and not masters: slaves of their animal instincts, their physiological needs, their emotions, and their passions'. That ain't participatory socialism! Fourth, we have 'fascism is in its broadest meaning a revolt against the modern age, against democratisation, secularisation and internationalism'. That is conservatism! Fifth, we have corporatism where fascism is defined as 'a system of political and economic decision-making based on the representation of organised interest groups in government' (Sarti).

 

Your hope for government is as much value as non-existent perfect competition. Without government, capitalism dies. Its inherently unstable after all. Gosh, its like Keynes passed you by.