? ... Facts are facts. You deny reality by saying this here. If I see it the right way then a "singularity" is a first Plank-length at a first Plank-time where all energy of the universe was suddenly existing. In this theory (and also in all other alternating theories) a causally structure seems also to be important. However god made it - this leads always to interesting ideas. As far as I can see within this causally structure exists a kind of memory of everything what had happened since the universe is existing. If someone threw a book into a fire, then we could in theory read this book for example. You could call the radiation of the book "shadow of the book" and rewrite this book for example on the surface of a diamond with a laser - or in wood with a knife - or on paper with ink or ... in any other way, if you would know how to find and to do it. That's all. Every "child of god" will always have to be a "child of the logos" too if it likes to be able to understand what's going on in us and all around us. And nothing is really lost whatever had happened.
Atheists ass-u-me-ing that there is no God is a fallacy of argument from ignorance. [/QUOTE] ignorance is absence of knowledge, Abscence of knowledge implies no basis for belief The way I see it, atheism simply recognizes the lack of evidence I see no reason to have faith,and many reasons not to have faith i do not have faith that god does not exist anymore than I have faith that unicorns do not exist Yes, and I choose not to have faith in that which cannot be proved Yes, faith is the decision operate without evidence
Well if deities are out there they are to moronic to communicate properly and pass on their message and don't seem to do crap for all the money and time and resources we laud onto them. So ,yea, they are kind of lousy role models as a group modern science is far better to look to when wanting something meaningful to have humanity count on for me not deities, if they exist, and they clearly can't or won't communicate with me so screw them.
This seems a bit disconnected. nobody 'gives' anything to deities.. that goes to people. nobody gives anything to science, either. that also goes to people. So, are you correlating the religious professionals, who make a living from the contributions of others, to science professionals, who also make a living from the taxes & contributions of others? I think you may be right. Most of the con man, pseudo science crap out there is nothing but a scam.. a con to fleece people out of their money. Just like religious charlatans, who try to ride on 'God!!' to make a living, so do most, if not all, of the 'science!' profesionals. Pseudo science has become the new state religion, so your observation is right on.
Like an episode of Rick and Morty with a joke you really like in it or a Gibson VOS with a 1950's neck profile Les Paul or making love to somebody you love who loves you back and envying no one, who's to say these aren't God? In school I had a friend from Bangkok in Thailand, so he was a street wise Thai boy from the city who spoke of boats and markets and Thai food, way cool, once believed his emperor gave him a £5.00 note he found that he told me about. Said he prayed for it one day, this was Year 8 in school like like 12 years old, showed me a picture of the guy the family had hanging on the wall, and showed me the £5.00 note. Who's to say that isn't real? Not I, fore, I'm not Thai.
I'm Lakota Sioux so our religion is very simple, every living thing has a spirit...Mother Earth, Father Sky, the gift of life is water. So the Christian version of God, the one most discussed and thought of when talking about God...Loves everyone, no matter what you do, if you repent of your sins and accept him in your heart, you will be welcomed into Heaven. Even those that don't believe (gentiles), can be accepted if they lead a life compatible with the ten commandments. Here's my take...There is one creature in our lives that loves you unconditionally, no matter what you do to it, and that is the domesticated Dog (God)...
You are right. And in the end god will ask hopefully the dog of good people, whether he should send all mankind to hell or not. Sometimes I think this is our only chance. Long thousands of years ago god said to us, we are responsible for his creation - for all life on planet Earth. We are "the crown" of his living creation. But what do we do? I would say we are not only "Amusing Ourselves to Death" we are amusing the whole world to death. I hope your prayers will help us all to find much more better ways.
I had tried to frame this thread in a way that is non sectarian or non religious.. no specific teachings or tenets of faith are used. The question is, What is God like, based on what you see, hear, or experience in the physical world? Of course, the background & preconceived notions about God will already be there, but i thought a bit of pondering 'outside the box' would be thought provoking, & perhaps strip us of dogma, that is in everyone. From my observation of the physical universe, there is not much there to conclude a 'loving' God. The universe is cold, dark, & uninhabitable, except for a very small space that we know of, & that you call, 'Mother Earth'. Now, this 'Mother' does provide for us.. food, water, air, shelter.. but only if we work our butts off for it, or if someone else does. Life is hard, painful, short.. and then you die... sometimes in agony. So apart from the occasional dog, (if it doesn't bite you!) and maybe a kind friend or significant other, 'Love' is mostly a human thing, & does not emanate from the universe that much.. certainly not from the natural world. Everything there either wants to eat you, or compete with you for survival. So i cannot conclude 'Love!' from the physical world. For those that do, i would be greatly interested in their thought processes, & how they arrived at that conclusion. It can certainly be a belief, but this is an exercise in speculating traits, based on our observations & experiences with the physical world.
I especially like your comments on 'amusing'. I find the very term to be descriptive of the nature of man.. to be sure modern man, in our time. A---Muse. Something to not-muse.. anything to keep thought or ponderings at bay. And that is what we do. We fill our ears & eyes with constant noise, commotion, & hysteria, to keep any possibility of quiet musing away. How can one, 'muse' when they are bombarded with the thoughts, beliefs, opinions, & propaganda from other sources? IMO, they cannot. They can only repeat what is being constantly programmed, by religious repetition, into the empty, suggestive heads of the hearers. The success of indoctrination & propaganda in our culture gives fuel to this view. People do not think for themselves.. they want someone else to organize their beliefs, & give it to them in a neat package.. preferably with a nice bow on it, so it looks pretty.
I suppose, if you 'project' the source of these things, & attribute them as gifts from a loving God, you might concluded 'loving' to a deity. But we are not trying to 'find God', in this thread, just speculate what He might be like, based on our observations & experiences. Your Thai friend is a good example. He 'prayed' for money, & it miraculously appeared.. at least to him it seemed miraculous. This led him to believe in the power of prayer, & the answer from a concerned Emporer/God, who answered him when he was 12 years old. I am not into dismissing people's experiences or beliefs, so i will accept this as a valid experience & conclusion.. and since i have asked for subjective experiences & observations, the conclusions are, of course, subjective.. nobody can conclude any objective reality from the anecdotes given here. I have heard a great many anecdotes like this, that the teller was convinced demonstrated interaction with the supernatural. Maybe some of it was imagined..but maybe some of it was real. I don't know. But IMO, there are too many instances of some kind of mysterious 'contact' with what seems to be a supernatural force or entity. Over the millennia, there are too many to dismiss prejudicially.. at least, that is the only way to dismiss everything.. with bias & prejudice. If one presupposes mass hysteria & delusion for humanity, how can they be excluded from that prognosis? Might not the person who believes that just be deluded themselves?
If you were to premise the existence of God, what would you conclude about this quote, from Camus? It seems he is talking about Angst.. the human condition marked by dread, fear, & anxiety, especially in the light of abstract concepts like eternity, infinity, & our own mortality. Why would there be this 'angst' in a person, if there is a God?
"Love" is definitely a human construct to explain the drive to reproduce. There are those that say survival is the strongest instinct...But protection of the offspring is almost universal among mammals. A mother bear is probably the most dangerous animal to encounter, she will take on a bear twice her size to protect her cubs. There are many examples of 'mothers' protecting their young in the wild to the point of their own bodily injury or death, if that is not a form of 'love' I don't know what is. As for everything competing with you in the wild, it is more that everything is indifferent to you...As a species, mankind is weak, slow...Where we excel is in the use of our intellect to adapt to the environment. Let's face it most of the population of Earth would not survive without modern conveniences. There are people who enjoy getting back to nature...But few that could actually survive indefinitely. It is hard for most of our species to recognize how insignificant we really are, most have a 'god' complex and view that their opinions and lives actually matter. To their immediate family, yes they matter, in the world as a whole, not so much. We all die, the promise of living forever or the afterlife is leaving a legacy...passing on the genes. This world will go on without us long after the human race has destroyed itself.
In Christian theology, God is uncreated; as is His Word (Jesus), and His Spirit (Comforter)... which I consider the Spirit of Love that encompasses and connects everything and everyone. Everything else in this world is created. That we are all interconnected can be easily proven. Saint John Kronstadt said, if you stare at someone for a length of time, let's say through a second story window, eventually that person will turn around to see who is staring at him. When a person accepts that there is something beyond our human comprehension, then they have broken through the 'ego' which binds and stifles them. From then on their reasoning and knowledge will take form within different parameters. It's the beginning of their growth towards the Divine. Socrates: Wisdom is Knowing We Know Nothing at All
It is quite fortunate that your persona here is generally dismissed if only because you just stated pretty much nothing with a bunch of someone elses words. Granted they contain more to consider than your own but, are diminished by you providing them. Please note I did not attack your god but instead commented on his worshipper.
The only people that can know what God is like are glorified Saints, since they live within God's experience while still on earth. All others, and that includes theologians, can only speak of God, so how can I tell you what God is like when I haven't experienced him? Wouldn't that be presumptuous of me since I'm not a saint?
I think there are other kinds of 'love' than just eros. And, it seems to be a lot deeper than just a 'human construct'. it has a powerful effect on our emotions, & can drive us to sacrificial acts.. altruism that goes beyond a self preservation instinct. But, from viewing the universe, how would you conclude a 'loving' God? Why attribute to Him this trait? What is there, in the visible universe, that would make you think this about God? I certainly do not see 'love' expressed in the natural world, which was my point about things either wanting to eat us, or compete for survival. I would not consider those loving acts, from wild beasts. they are not driven by hate, or any other such emotion, but mere survival.. self preservation of themselves. Now, perhaps one might argue that the visible expressions of this 'love' in humans is a reflection of the Love of God. But that seems to be more of a case of us creating Him in our image.. God becomes merely a reflection of our own humanity. and you are right.. if you assume the atheistic worldview, there is not anything to look forward to, in an afterlife. But, if we presume God for a bit more, would not His purposes & the nature of our existence have something to say about that? IOW, if we have an eternal 'soul', as billions have believed over the millennia, would not that affect our outlook? Maybe encourage altruism? Spur us to acts of love, if we think it might please the Creator? Would we not try to 'curry' his favor? Humans do that with parents, bosses, & other humans, why not do it with a Creator? 'Love is a pretty big thing.. a powerful emotion.. an instinct, a choice, a commitment.. that express themselves in powerful actions. Gurus & great thinkers have tried to figure out love forever. I don't think our simple beliefs about it are the end all conclusion in this. I know we all have our beliefs, about love, but those can change drastically, once an object of affection enters the picture.. or leaves. Love is not rational. it is not something you would predict in an animal survival setting. It is right up there with angst, as a mysterious human trait, that has no natural explanation. And perhaps, these things tell us something about God.. that is my question, here.
I can see you are a sincere, sensitive person, Jeannette. I was asking for experiences or observations that make you conclude something about God. I know people like to declare their beliefs, as many have done, here, & i'm ok with that. But it is my desire & wish to see this thread address the attributes of God, from observations & experiences in the universe. I would guess that you have had some kind of experience to make you think God is like such & such.. i'm not asking for anything deep or personal, but only what people feel like sharing. I think we humans tend to project upon God, our traits, rather than see Him as He actually IS. And, of course, those who disbelieve (who are legion in this forum!), reject the concept of God outright. I only thought it would be an interesting, thought provoking exercise, to consider the Nature of God, given what we know & see about the physical universe.
Now THAT makes perfect sense, and is quite different than earlier when you explained to everyone what God is like.
So it occurs to me even though my mum never said it, God is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.
I will go a bit deeper. God loves all of us. We can approach God upon death so long as we believe in GOD and his son that perished due to the Romans execution of Jesus. God has awesome power. I go further in that he embodies awesome power. Creating a universe is not child play. God gave us order. As man explored elements man learned elements are orderly and have structure. A structure perhaps more magnificent than even animals. Bacteria are said to be our early ancestors. But Bacteria have no need of hearts, lungs nor brains nor bones. GOD played a huge role in the magnificent human.
I would say he speaks about not to be able to find orientation in the night of the soul. The word "orientation" means verbally to find the direction East for to pray into this direction in the morning, when the sun will rise and bring back a clear light which nears all life. But where's East[er] (=rebirth, surrection) in the night of the soul? Angst depends not on faith, angst is a psychological form of pain. Without pain - and angst - no one is able to live here on planet Earth. But sometimes we are not allowed to follow our angst and pain. In such a situation we are only able to hope god will help us.
The Sun is a fair bet for at least the next several billion years. I would not trust any lover however.
Better than working for a living though? But hey, if the suckers want to give you all their money why not make hay while the sun shines?
