You've got your talking points down, that much is obvious. If the constitution doesn't say anything about it, then they do not have the power. Pretty simple concept. Read the tenth amendment. Oh that's right, not plain-enough language for you and I'm not the supreme court so my "interpretation" doesn't count. I guess that leaves us at an impasse.
It does leave us at an impasse, which is exactly why we have a Supreme Court. Just because you don't agree with them does not give you any powers to circumvent them and become traitors. They are Constitutionally given the powers to have final authority on interpreting Constitutional law. You or Snowden are not given any of those powers.
All Snowden said was what they "could do". You said he was a liar, and that they could not. You believed there were "checks and balances" which prevented it. Glad you are on board now. You don't care about thousands of US Citizens private lives being analyzed PER target, because you don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about the fourth amendment. The bigger problem is the international one. You can't even wrap your (*)(*)(*)(*)ing head around the domestic problem with domestic surveillance... but that GB, Aus, Can, NZ, Ger don't HAVE to bother with our fourth amendment... and there is nothing preventing everyone from spying on everyone else to avoid the inappropriateness of spying domestically. I really don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) what you think. The box is open... more is coming... and the discussion is moving forward.
The supreme court does not have the final say. Quote the passage from the constitution that grants this extraordinary power of the government to determine its own powers. Like I said, the constitution defines treason. It is not defined as "circumventing the supreme court". The power I do have is the power to decide for myself how I live my life and interact with others. When my right to my life is being interfered with, I have the right to resist that imposition. The government does not have the right to invade my privacy and spy on me. It's a violation of natural and written law. Withdrawing my consent to be governed by the illegal murderous regime is not treason. Really, running around calling people traitors is just the sort of unhinged hysteria I expect from regime apologists. Are you an employee or just a concerned citizen?
Ummm, no. You got it all wrong. I never said checks and balances "prevent" them from doing an action. I said there are checks and balances that would notify them if an analyst was using the programs inappropriately, like keystroke analysis, query validation, etc, etc. Like I said, I really don't care what the Government can do, I care what they actually do. Snowden just listed off normal capabilities that most people imagine the government having. What we want is evidence of them abusing these privileges. And since there is very very little evidence of that, it is safe to say that they do not abuse these programs, that they are watched over, and that our rights are being protected. You just listen to any type of possible thing the government can do and get all up and arms over it like a little child. This is the United States Government, they have access to anything and everything if they "wanted" it, it's what they do with that access that people care about. I'm just not a little sissy, even if my phone number is associated with a friend that contacts terrorists, if the government wants to know if I'm in association with terrorists organizations, I couldn't care less. Just like if my buddy is arrested and they track my phone number from his cell phone to question me. I also do not care. That is common sense practices for people trying to solve crimes or track terrorists. The only way it is a problem is if you are a conspiracy theorist and you believe that these capabilities imply that they are doing illegal activities. Nothing will happen out of this Snowden situation, the government is not so dumb that they would allow a clown like him to have the access he claims he had. Like I said, you are a conspiracy theorist, bottom line.
http://www.supremecourt.gov/about/constitutional.aspx I guess you are more important than our 200+ years of history and you have final say in what the Constitution means. Wow, you have mighty powers, please Mr. Dictator, tell me more about what our country can and can't do based on your incredible knowledge and power.
If most people expected the government were doing this, it would not be such a scandal, people would not be angry, congress would not be angry, and you would not accuse everyone of being a traitor. You hate whistleblowers and have stated several times you do not give a (*)(*)(*)(*) what they do. You don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) that it our rights are being violated. That was really all you had to say to begin with. There is no more oversight at the NSA than there is at a flash mob. You cannot plug that many holes... the thing is, you have to think privacy matters. If the privacy of YOUR citizens is not something you are trying to protect, but instead exploit... it changes the way you look at the game... and the majority of agents have the moral imperative of protecting Americans at their very core. All of the rules, are layered into a body of subversion by design. Thinthread worked.
So there is no passage in the constitution that grants the authority. Got it. Your argument just boils down to the SC having final authority because the SC said so, and some other people did too. Not much of an argument. The "living constitution" theory is just an excuse to break the law. What am I dictating? And who am I dictating it to? You are perfectly free to allow the government to go on violating your rights. I'm sure you don't miss them. My opposition to the regime does not force anything on you or anyone else.
People are angry because the media, people like you, and Snowden are lying about or fabricating what the documents mean. That is why FISA just renewed the programs again. There is a big difference between what the public thinks is going on versus what actually is going on. I don't believe in conspiracies like you do. I need cold hard facts. And this would be easy to find facts of this abuse, you would be able to find 1000's of court cases of innocent Americans who have been sent to trial because of data gathered by all these rouge analysts that do not have any oversight. You don't have any real evidence. It's all conjecture and "what-if" scenarios. What if the government dropped nuclear bombs on us. They could if they wanted to. Your argument is basically akin to saying the government should not have nuclear codes because they can use them on us, or they can not have a military because they can use them for corrupt purposes. It's an embarrassing argument. I need cold hard facts that the NSA is destroying innocent American lives through these programs and all these "hops". You seem so scared, it amazes me that you would even be on the Internet arguing this. I would think you'd be in a concrete bunker a hundred feet in the ground with how terrifying the government is to you.
Well according to the real world the Supreme Court has had this ability for centuries. I guess you believe you can interpret the Constitution and tell everyone what it means. Got it dictator, thanks for letting us know what we can and can't do as a country. You are a libertarian, you guys get 1% of the vote because you have such extreme and crazy ideas. You guys can't even compete in the Republican primaries with the other whack jobs. Even the Tea Party is more appealing to people than Libertarians. It's absolutely embarrassing how you guys have little hissy fits because the government does not do what you want them to do.
In other words, you can't answer simple questions so you apply a convenient label and start railing against what some group of people supposedly believes instead of the what the person you are theoretically replying to has actually said. Canned labels and talking points, that's all you've got? <shrug> Again, who am I dictating to? I am simply making judgments for myself. I am not forcing them on you or anyone else. I'm not in a position to do that. All I advocate is liberty, but somehow that's dictating? Quite a stretch there, Skippy.
You are saying what Snowden did was right based on your opinion. Snowden acted according to his own personal interpretation on what the Constitution means with the 4th Amendment. Therefore he is dictating what the 4th amendment means to us. He is telling us what we can and can't do based on his interpretation. I do not agree with you nor Snowden and neither of you has any authority on what is legal or what isn't according to your own interpretation of the Constitution. And I did answer your question, so did the Supreme Court who acknowledges their powers aren't explicitly stated in the Constitution but they were given those powers two years after the Constitution was written. Since then the Supreme Court has had the final say in what is constitutional and what isn't. Keep supporting traitors, it suits you. Probably are a huge fan of the Waco guys and Timothy McVeigh also. And most likely you believe 9/11 was an inside job along with that. It's all the same with you guys.
Ya, cool story bro. When you're done pounding your tiny little fist on the key board, let me know. By the way, Your a coward an wouldn't say (*)(*)(*)(*) to my face. That's just a fact.
Ahahahaha, you're a pansy clown. I would destroy you. The fact you're such a pu$$y about the government having your cell phone metadata tells me all I need to know about how much of a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) you are. Barking up the wrong tree bro, you'd be ended quick.
Ya, not really. See how stupid you sound? According to your lack of logic, anyone who thinks the government mining data is wrong is a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)? Seriously, are you a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing retard or what? But, thanks for the tough talk, I bet you where sprinkling yellow down your leg when you typed this gem out. Be gone.
Who gave the SC those powers "two years after the Constitution was written"? It would have had to have been added to the constitution. I see no such amendment... http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/07/10/poll-snowden-isnt-a-traitor/ Snowden happens to hold the majority opinion on what the 4th means, it's not just his opinion. Even the regime-supporting media admit that. I'm not saying that alone makes it correct, but your portrayal of his view as some kind of aberration is unsupported by the evidence. You are the one supporting traitors. Stop projecting.
The government is voted in to make decisions. Snowden was not voted in to make any decisions. If you don't like the governments policies or their decisions then you vote them out. Your guys problem is, very few people agree with your extremist positions so you never have any power in the government. Your only chance of getting heard is through violence or espionage. You routinely get 1% of the general populations vote yet you guys think you deserve to tell us what our country can and can't do based on your interpretation of the law. The Constitution does not give specific powers to the Supreme Court, it also does not give a specific explanation of what is an "unreasonable search and seizure". Which is why we have courts and have a final authority so that everyone can't just make up their own laws and interpretations. I'm not arguing that you are wrong. I'm arguing that you believe you are so right that you can take jobs with the government to intentionally gather classified information to pass off to the world. I don't care what people believe, they can believe whatever they want, but that is why we have the system we have. So an individual person cannot dictate how the rest of us lives because of their interpretation of a paragraph written over 200 years ago.
Please son, how scared you are that the government has a database of phone records tells me all I need to know about your pansy ass. And, you can think what the government is doing is wrong, there are plenty of things I think the government should or shouldn't be doing. But I'm not the dictator of this country, I do not make the laws for which the government and people have to abide by. If you have a problem with the government vote people in that you think share your ideas. But supporting traitors who steal documents from the government and run off to foreign countries to leak this information and threaten our government, that's pathetic. Have some pride bro, even if you don't agree with it, at least have some pride in our country. You guys should go move to Venezuela with your coward buddy. You would love it there.
Ok, thanks for another round of idiotic dribble. Do yourself a favor, give up the the umber Internet patriotic tough guy act, step away from the keyboard, and just curl up against a big ol' bucket of freedom fries. That will keep those terrorizers at bay. I know the fact that Snowden is more of an American than you'll ever be in ten life times, bugs the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of you, but it is what it is. The rest of us will continue to vocalize our opposition to further infringements too personal freedoms, while cowards likeypu hide in your yellow puddles under your bed, waiting for big bro to keep you safe. Seriously, you've past pathetic like ten post ago. Just give a rest already.
Hahahaha, Snowden is living in an airport hotel in Russia and you consider that "American"? That is comedy gold, Ronald Reagan is rolling around in his grave laughing hysterically at Snowden being considered a "hero" and a true "American". Like I said you should move to Venezuela to join him since the American government is so bad to you. Are you scared they might find out all the porn you watch or how many times you call your ex wives? I'm a realist, I don't hide behind a keyboard and act like some self righteous prick that thinks they know what the country should or shouldn't be doing. You act like your opinion is superior to the rest of ours. Sorry son, you are an uneducated scrub... pretty much most of what you say should not be applied to the real world where education is a necessity. Keep supporting a coward and a traitor, it suits you.
Let's see, Snowden gives everything up, faces imprisonment, and can probably never step foot on American soil again, because he made a conscious decision to inform the American people of what their own government is doing. Then there is you............ Enough said. By the way, you're starting to sound like a Special Ed version of a broken record. You can take your "love it or leave it" bull(*)(*)(*)(*), and shove it up your little pompous ass. This is my country, just as much as it's yours, I'm not going anywhere.
First we have to know what the government's policies are. That's the service Snowden has performed: letting us know since the regime apparently had no intention of doing that. Your 4th amendment arguments are not carrying weight with me as my view is more than just unreasonableness. Its also, and even more so, specificity. A warrant is required, and there must be "probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized". The hoover-it-all approach is a gross violation of that. I can see that for myself, anything the SC has said notwithstanding. Speaking of which, got a reference to a specific SC decision that says all the stuff the Snowden revealed is legal? Even the guy who wrote the Patriot Act says it's not.
Well to be quite honest, you have done that the entire thread by supporting the governments decision and labeling of the man.... No proof that wiretapping has stopped any significant activity.... and its a violation of all Americans rights.
Lmao!! An "American hero" who can't ever step foot on American soil again with out being arrested! You should just go meet up with him in his hotel room in the Russian airport. I'm sure your lives would be great together, lol. The Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves laughing at how sickening American citizens like yourself have become. No patriotism, no loyalty, no respect, nothing. Just spoiled clowns that think they are important and can dictate how the rest of us live. Sorry Hitler, but you aren't telling me what I can and can't do, neither are you telling the country what it can and can't do. Just a scared little pansy.
