Who does—and doesn’t—support sending U.S. troops to Ukraine

Russia-Ukraine latest news: West will respond 'in kind' if Moscow uses chemical weapons warns Joe Biden

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...latest-russia-news-putin-peace-nato-zelensky/

I say - at this point, if we are going to start seriously escalating, why not just immediately nuke Russia and just be done with it? Doing it this way would produce the least amount of deaths on our side. We have the first strike capability.

 

I do not want my nation to be the one that used nuclear weapons first, or at all. And I would be thoroughly disgusted with the west if they ever used chemical weapons. Nobody deserves to die that way. Its absolutely inhumane.

 

Problem is, if a nuclear state uses WMDs in a war of aggression against a smaller and weaker non-nuclear state, the nuclear war becomes a matter of a question of when, not if.
Responding “in kind” to Russian use of chemical weapons, as in providing such weapons to Ukraine to hit Russia will lead to a large amount of civilian Russians dying from a weapon that we ourselves condemn. The only logical thing that is consistent with our values is to just use our first strike capability and nuke Russian military targets to destroy its ability to wage nuclear warfare. That’s the safest way for our side to overcome this problem and ensure nuclear weapons or other WMDs won’t be used regularly in conventional warfare. We should really do it for our planet at this point.

 

We don't know what "in kind" means in this case. We've been given no specifics. It's an odd choice of words since I wouldn't expect any NATO member to use or even hand over to the Ukrainians chemical weapons of any kind.

 

I’ve seen statements made by American or NATO officials saying that if Russia uses such weapons, we will seriously consider getting involved.
Even sending troops on the ground to Ukraine after Russia used such weapons against it will escalate and give Pootin an excuse to claim Russia is at war with the U.S. and use nukes first.
All I’m saying, if Russians use such a weapon, we should just skip the escalation steps and just nuke their nuclear targets. We might get a few ourselves, but it’s better than normalizing the use of nuclear weapons or WMDs in conventional warfare and war of aggression. It’s bad for our planet in long term, and it sets us up for a runaway arms race and inevitable global nuclear conflict.

 

Yes . when the west used chemical weapons it was disgusting .. Fortunately .. Russia has yet to use them - so knock on wood

 

Yes Thedimon .. lets send our men to the trenches .. to bathe in the chemical pool .. something to adore -just like in a world war ..

 

I am. Hopefully the world has learned a little from the disgusting barbarism of the past. I don't give a damn if it was East or West that did it. Using weapons like that makes us lower than animals.

 

what constitutes a win in your view?

 

For Putin it could be one of several things. The Russians and Ukrainians are in negotiations right now so if they come to some sort of agreement that gives Putin just enough to save face, he can declare victory and go home. Alternately, he can just continue to do what the Russian military has done for a century; just keep throwing men and material at the problem until they take Kiev and install their own government.

Some wins are better than others, but I don't see the Ukrainians defeating the Russian army and pushing it back over the border.

 

Among other things .. Yes

 

That’s what I’m saying. If Russians use WMDs - we should just nuke them and spare ourselves the trouble.

 

Can anyone tell me why selling MIG jets from Poland which would be used by the Ukrainians to defend their territory and used to stop Russian columns of tanks and supplies advancement is any different from selling anti - aircraft systems that are somewhat capable of destroying aircraft missiles and some aircraft coming in? Those who ignore history are more apt to make the same mistakes as in the past. We do have a past history of appeasing monsters like Hitler and Mussolini. We have a past record on people like Putin and Assad who had a total disregard of human life and the use of chemical weapons to advance their agenda. The Chechenia's know, those of Belarus know, the Afghanistan's know. The Ukrainians knew. Now the world knows.

We should be thankful that Zelensky has rallied his people to step up and fight considering the heavy lost that his country has suffered. If the rest of the world just want's to sit on the sideline and wait for the final outcome then they better hope he wins. If Putin wins it will only be the first step in his master plan to reclaim all territories he thinks belong to Russia. Most of todays young people have only a fleeting conception of WW1 & WW2. Very few have even been touched by the Mideast wars. I hope they pay attention to this war because this is a perfect example on how socialist and communist regimes act against freedom loving people. No matter the outcome we all will have to pay a price in fuel costs and food shortages this year.

 

save face...go home....sure okay...I'm assuming that "victory" includes those indicted for war crimes will have to face extradition to the respective court [the Hague] and abide by the outcome? Reparations?
One theory is that soon NATO will make an assertive move against Putin in either threat or action in order to take the initiative away and to dictate the momentum itself. Up until now Putin is the one threatening the west with Nuclear attack and all that jazz and all the western leaders have done is...pretty much cower in fear that he would actually do it (effectively accepting defeat) and giving Putin complete freedom and time (its planting time). Perhaps the time has come to call his bluff. The reason this is that, if we cannot get Russia to withdraw soon then there will be severe damage and disruption to worldwide food supply and stocks - wheat from Ukraine and fertiliser from Russia to start with....corn oil etc etc. The instability famine and soaring costs would cause across the world could easily end up in destabilisation of many governments and potentially war(s), as happened with the Arab Spring. Time is running out and doing nothing will soon be unsustainable if the media starts to work out the implications of the impending food crisis.

In the meantime I hope he'll get carked by his own kind.....hell that no fury like a pissed off Oligarch...hopefully they'll save his face for identification purposes when his corpse is hung on a lampost...

 

any meaningful attack needs air cover against russian aircraft/helicopters sent to attack the ground forces

 

One of those Death wish moments .. take the whole world with you ... OK

 

It’s not a death wish.
If we send troops to Ukraine after Russia uses WMD against it - we endanger our troops and still risk nuclear exchange.
If we let Pootin win - he goes after Poland or Baltic states, which will result in NATO going to war with Russia.

It looks like a lot of paths from here lead to a nuclear exchange. It’s not my wish, it’s Pootins. So, why go through all those escalation steps if we can just disarm Russia with one strike? I’m not saying we should nuke their population centers for the sake of killing people - we should strike known silos, mobile launchers, and nuclear weapons storage facilities. 90% of their ICBMs use liquid fuel, which means they need to be fueled right before launch, which takes almost an hour. If we strike first, there is a very good chance of us getting away with it. If we wait, they might be the ones who strike first, which kills a heck of a lot more people.

 

Until someone takes the shot, there is no nuclear war and no untold thousands or even millions of innocent people getting obliterated or radiation-poisoned, and no escalatory step such as sending troops into Ukraine is a guarantee of nuclear exchange in the future, so that's why we do not launch ours and start one.

We got through decades of Cold War tension and proxy wars. We can get through this without a nuclear war, too.

 

Don't think you need to worry too much about Russia using chemical weapons -- never used em before .. gotta be worried about the false flags CIA/MI6 like to conduct .. like in Syria .. .. but you probably favor this .. any reason to escalate aye mate

 

I hope you are right.
I’d just hate to see us going through several years of a large European war that ends with nuclear exchange anyway. We absolutely do have the ability to neutralize Russia, if we act first.

 

Answer here:

The Poles didn't want to give them to Ukraine, they wanted to give them to the US to give to Ukraine, by sending them to an airbase in Germany.

 

OK good luck with the war crimes trial.

 

No, Poland wanted to give Ukraine the jets. What it did not want is to be seen as the direct source of those jets. In simple terms - they got scared of Russia.

 

Yeah, I think the Poles should hand those planes over directly and stop trying to go through us. It's a little silly to be willing to give them to the Ukrainians, but then not willing to do it directly.

 

Do you doubt the veracity of the claim or doubt that war crimes have been committed?