Why Do Americans Keep Voting for Republicans and Democrats? Are They Stupid?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Ethereal, Jul 23, 2019.

  1. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    Here you go...

     
  2. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh I saw.

    That's why I asked.

    That's why you didn't answer.
     
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  3. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Well-Known Member

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    I know, right? You voted for a lifelong Lib that decided to fool cons into voting for him and throw away every conservative value they had. LOL
     
  4. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Well-Known Member

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    A vote for Hillary and Trump was not an option for me. I refuse to keep adding garbage on top of garbage in DC.
     
  5. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Well-Known Member

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    Who said I voted for Hillary? That's the problem with all you Trumpublicans. You assume everyone against Trump loved Hillary. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
     
  6. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    What didn't I answer?
     
  7. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What human you would vote for.
     
  8. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    With government spending deficits at record highs and government payrolls the largest they have ever been, that rule you stated about the Greedy Old Party being conservative certainly isn't holding true under Dirty Donald.
     
  9. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    Oh, I assumed you read my previous post. Sorry.

    I would not vote for any person that any political party would currently present. Both the Republicans and Democrats are crass authoritarians. They are unscrupulous.

    No person should rule over another.
     
  10. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So who would you vote for.

    I thought the question I asked you was pretty simple, and yes, I saw you say who you wouldn't vote for.

    I just want to see how high the bar is.
     
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  11. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    If you vote other than for the GOP or Dem you are throwing your vote away.

    That's how Trump got elected.

    And Trumpers think they are being slick by trashing "both sides" knowing that Trumpers will ALWAYS support the Orange Fool
     
  12. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    I thought I answered: no one.

    I thought that was obvious.
     
  13. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    You explained it to me once before. It might work better.
     
  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, I see. No one is worthy to represent us in government.

    Must get lonely there on top of the Alps.
     
  15. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    To answer the OP, it's because the US has a rigged political system so that only a candidate from a major party can win. Now there are exceptions. If a third party candidate was very wealthy and was able to meet the advertising and travel of the others, he might have a chance, but typical third part candidates are not able to, and this coupled with the unaffair ballot access laws, specificially designed to kill off indies and third parties, makes it even harder.
     
  16. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    I don't live in the Alps, but you are correct- no one is worthy to rule over me or be my master.
     
  17. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Elected representatives don't rule over you.

    Perhaps you should stop looking at them as your superiors.

    The problem isn't them....
     
  18. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    Yes, they do.


    Lol...they definitely aren't my superiors.

    We established that already in the OP. The problem is the people that vote for them.
     
  19. PrincipleInvestment

    PrincipleInvestment Well-Known Member

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    DNC = 0/25 ? ::): Life is good. :smoking:
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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  20. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't believe Republicans and Democrats are really all that against third party candidates winning things... at least no more against them winning than they're against one another winning. Obviously a member of any party will tend to want their own party to always win, but Democrats on average would likely rather see an independent or third-party moderate win than a Republican. And likewise, Republicans would probably prefer a third-party member over a Democrat (though which specific third-party does play a role of course).

    In other words, its not as if Dems and Reps are really cooperating with each-other. To the extent that the actions of either major party lead to third-parties being put at an unfair disadvantage, I would say it is done less so out of hostility to third-parties as major party alternatives in particular, and more so as a means to secure victory over the other major party, by ensuring that the spoiler effect, which our antiquated system is prone to, does not come into play/act to detriment the major party's chances against the other due to candidates peeling off and the voter base being split.

    Surly, the voters themselves are not against third-parties. Polls would tend to suggest just the opposite. Elected politicians on the other hand may be much more fond of and attached to the system that got them elected, regardless of the particulars, but even many of them seem as if they'd rather be running as something other than a Democrat or Republican, if only it weren't for our flawed election system punishing such things by shifting power in such cases to one's ideological polar antithesis.

    So if the majority of the people want third parties, and even a good chunk of the political class want them... why do we continue down along the same path we've been on?? I'd chalk that up to simple lack of awareness. The way the system is set up, allowing "your half" of the electorate to split up decreases the chances of anyone from "that half" actually winning over "the other half". And of course, people do want to win. Therefore, politicians are incentivized by the system to do all they can to prevent "their half" from splitting up, hence the tendency to suppress third-parties of which many candidates and voters go along with for the same reason... they are all unaware of any feasible alternatives.

    ...But that's not to say they're stupid, as the OP suggests... After-all, the root of this issue has been around ever since the country's founding and is a deeply ingrained part of the way we're all used to doing things. Its much easier to see the core of an issue as it comes into existence than it is to recognize one that's always been there. And this one, I reiterate, was there from the start, and has simply gradually gotten worse over the years as politics has been boiled down to only the most contentious of issues, while the drive to win has simultaneously eroded many of our collective standards regarding ethical fairness and decency.

    So what is the solution?
    First, we need to make our politicians and our-fellow citizens aware of the various ways our current system is flawed.
    And more importantly, we need to make them aware of the things we can do to improve upon our current system.
    After that, we need to demand change...

    -Meta
     
  21. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're correct that a majority of Americans say a viable third party is needed.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/244094/majority-say-third-party-needed.aspx?
    utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=morelink&utm_campaign=syndication


    But I think you really underestimate the length the two major parties will go to keep third party candidates off the ballot. Republicans and Democrats get automatic ballot access. All other have to jump through hoops, getting signatures which the number varies in each state, the time limit required to get those signatures also vary in each state, whether the signature have to be registered voters or just residents also varies. Even when third party or independent candidates get the required number of signature, they're always challenged and each name and signature has to match the voting rolls exactly. I've been through that, if I wanted to get my third party candidate on the ballot, as an example 1,000 signatures are needed. I'd better get 3,000 as 2/3rds will get tossed out for varying reasons.

    Another obstacle is financial. The two major parties rack in millions, tens of million of dollars from corporations, wall street firms, lobbyist, special interests, mega, huge money donors etc. They don't donate to third parties or independents. Of course one can't blame them. They're smart businessmen, they're only going to invest in politics, candidates, parties if they can get a good return from their investment. By investing in the two major parties, those smart businessmen know darn well their investment will indeed give a return worth much more than what they originally invested. If those smart businessmen didn't get the return they expected, they wouldn't invest in our politics or political parties, candidates etc.

    Here's a prime example of the financial or money problem third parties have. In 2016 Hillary Clinton raised and spent 1.191 billion dollars on her run for the presidency. Trump raised and spent 646.8 million. Gary Johnson was in third place in the money race, 3 million. All 28 third party candidates nationwide raised almost 6 million, all Third party candidates were outspent approximately 2 billion to 6 million by the two major parties.

    No, the two major parties enjoy their monopoly on our election system. They're not about to let that monopoly go.
     
  22. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Yes we are stupid.
     
  23. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You just contradicted yourself.

    If you see them as "ruling over you", then they'd be superior to you.

    Does this mean you should be in charge?
     
  24. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    • Signature rule violation (Rule 13)
    No, I didn't.

    No, one does not dictate the other.

    Not at all.
     
  25. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You absolutely did. A "master" is superior to you. You see elected officials as your "masters".

    Perhaps the problem is in your paradigm.

    No, it's definitely in your paradigm.

    I would never think of any elected representative as my "master" or my "superior". I would think of them as someone who's been temporarily entrusted by me with a job that's up for review in 2-4 years.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019

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