Libertarianism...A Parody

Umm, no one has ever seen a real libertarian society in a modern context, so it is kind of hard to determine what it would look like without extrapolating from its positions...

You've yet to give your version, and quoting Thomas Jefferson doesn't count. If you really wanted to talk about this honestly, why don't you lay out your opinion on the list of things I mentioned and then try to hash those out with me?

 

How many times must I answer this question? Again...

Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.
--Thomas Jefferson

Oh boy. You typed "LOL". You really put me in my place.

Anyway... liberty very obviously does not exist in some kind of a vacuum where it is valued purely for its own sake. Rather, it is the logical extension of a set of MORAL axioms that define classical liberalism in general, i.e., "all men are created equal" and are "endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights". Arguably, one could reduce those axioms even further, down to the spiritual or religious level. Because what would be the point of asserting those truths without some kind of transcendent or universal origin to justify them? Granted, some libertarians refuse to countenance such arguments, but they are by no means the representatives of libertarian philosophy. And in any case, they still subscribe to that basic set of moral axioms that uphold the equality of "man" and the inalienability of "his" rights.

Football? You mean a sport that was created entirely by private individuals acting of their own free will?



Anyway, I feel like my response above adequately explains the basis for liberty and how it translates into the "real world" (are you implying abstract thought has no real world basis?) If you want further elaboration, then feel free to ask, because I have oodles of it.

 

What do you even mean by a "real libertarian society"? As far as I can tell, 90% of our existence is governed by voluntary, small-scale associations. For example, you're about to watch a football game. Is someone forcing you to do that? Did the game of football emerge because some coercive power willed it into existence? Or because some people just got together and started playing it of their own free will? Almost everything you do in your life is essentially voluntary. Granted, there are coercive powers that exist in the background, but they are not omnipotent, omnipresent, or omniscient. People can and do defy their coercive power all the time. For example, I ingest cannabis on occasion, as do millions of other Americans, despite the fact that it's legally prohibited. The same can be said for a number of other coercive government mandates. By and large, "society" is the product of individual, voluntary action and association, not coercive powers centrally planning and managing everything.

 

I sincerely doubt that you could show that logic, but I invite you to try.

I know thousands of libertarians. Most of them care as little about money as most people. What they care about is liberty for human beings. Imagine a culture where everyone is told what to do for every aspect of their lives, punished when they disobey, and cameras in every home to make sure they do it. That's what people like you want.

- - - Updated - - -

You belong in a jail cell, being raped by Bubba, according to people like Rickysdisciple..

 

Yes, well, the law is the law.

 

If you want to ask how liberty leads to chaos...ask it of someone who has asserted that it does.

I have not.

I have asserted that at the end of the road being traveled by libertarians...one finds chaos and anarchy.

 

Liberty is the basic principle of libertarian ideology.

That is why they're called LIBER-tarians.

 

Oh!

I thought it had something to do with the fact that libertarians sorta rhymes with barbarians.

But what do I know?

Anyway...it is my opinion that libertarianism is the pathway to chaos and anarchy.

I see that you do not share that opinion, but I hope most Americans are of a similar opinion.

 

Why are you confusing anarcho-capitalism with libertarianism?

 

And as we all know charities and other private organizations could not possibly exist in the absence of government services...

 

Not all businesses are created equal. Business that are not beholden to shareholders most definitely can have goals beyond profits and even some corporations have foregone maximized profits to help people.

 

On what do you base that opinion?

 

On what I have learned over the last 80 years.

 

And that is? You don't have to list off the sum total, but a cliff notes of evidence?

 

What does any of this have to do with libertarianism?

It is much more akin to a socialist vision of utopia.

 

Stop...will ya. Yer cracking me up.

My opinion, based on what I have experienced during the time I've been alive...and the time I've spent considering political philosophy, is that Libertarianism is a headlong flight toward chaos and anarchy.

If you disagree...fine.

Disagree.

You'll get no silly questions from me about why you disagree.

 

It is in no way the logical conclusion of libertarianism.

Slavery is much more what the left wing pursues.Your vision is what they stand for.

 

Can you give some examples of what supports your opinion?

 

Do you disagree with my opinion?

 

I love libertarians. There is no country that operates as libertarian but they still believe. They believe in unicorns. Lol

 

Go IRISH!

 

I do. And I will happily give evidence that supports my opinion.

Will you do the same?

 

Well, fine, then.

One of society's constraints is that one not steal.

So, how can a person without any resources whatsoever have freedom?

 

Nope.

I'm just wondering if you are new enough to this kind of thing so that you would jump through the hoops that can be set up.

I'm not.

I'm not interesting in how you came to the opinions you have. Such matters as you want to share, I will consider. But I doubt I will ask for how you came to an opinion. And when someone asks me a question like you are asking...I look at it as the hoop it is...

...and refuse to jump.

At some point humans came to realize that living communally was a positive for self-preservation, Questerr.

In order to live communally, though, each individual had to give up some individuality...had to give up a bit of independence.

As civilization progressed...it got more complex...and with each advancement, a bit more individual independence and liberty was forfeited to the benefit of the community.

Civilization...society...depends on each individual having less personal independence and liberty.

Libertarians...want to set us back...by making individual rights more important than the rights of community.

Libertarians...want to lead us to chaos and anarchy.

Libertarians are blind to the fact that they are doing that.

I am not interested in setting libertarians straight. Screw 'em if they cannot see it on their own or if they are so self-absorbed they go through the histrionics and demands for less intrusion of government on their lives. They live in society...and they will toe the line whether they want to or not.

Are we good?

 

Utterly ridiculous. Businesses don't act. People do. Many people put other priorities ahead of profit. Ever heard of a non-profit? It's a business. Ever heard of a b-corp? An s-corp that professionals use? A sole proprietorship? Even some c-class corporations exist mainly to protect assets.

Regulations created by politicians whose ONLY goals are to acquire power and rule over people by selling out as much as they possibly can. Yet, there you are voting for them and praying for them to solve your problems.