Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?

DennisTate · Nov 29, 2016

Woolley said: ↑

I have read plenty of books on string theory intended for laymen like ourselves. No one has ever posited that particles existing in one or more planes have intelligence or consciousness.
Click to expand...

But.... near death experiencers do talk and write about invisible space time dimensions......
that sound very much like what Theoretical Physicists say should exist......
and near death experiencers do report that intelligence, in some form, exists even
in astonishingly small particles.

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Taxpayer said: ↑

Delusions are often complex.

Click to expand...

And so is the truth, even on what would seem to be a simple
topic at first.

DennisTate · Dec 8, 2016

This question is more important than we might imagine at first.

Dogmatic Atheistic Evolutionary Theory causes us to tend to place a low value on human life.....
and on land that can be farmed, to sustain lives.

President Trump's choice for Secretary of Education means that American may soon somewhat break
out of Rabidly Atheistic Evolutionary Theory and shift over toward the less dogmatic
Agnostic version....... . which leaves us with questions that can cause us to begin to realize that
our lives and well being..... .may be far far far far far more important to an astonishingly ancient Intelligence
that is emotionally attached to each of us....... from having invested so much time and effort over
nearly infinite time in the past.... planning and choreographing an essentially infinite number of
Big Bang type events .... not only in Four dimensional space - time but in all of the
higher dimensions that we can see is founded upon.........

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/betsy-devos-education-secretary-trump-231804

Trump selects DeVos as education secretary

..................................

IF... it is true that land within a hundred miles of each USA city is about to
skyrocket in value.........
to at least some degree... this may be linked to a revaluation of the
real value of human life......
from another perspective.

http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...most-emotional-being-universe-multiverse.html

Could God the Father be the most emotional being in the universe/ multiverse?

Which type of project will you tend to get more involve in?

A job that you invested fifty hours of your time in over one month or a labour of love where you exerted a great deal of effort for 50,000 hours over forty years?

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html#a05

"As I passed into the second light, the awareness came to me that I had just transcended the truth. Those are the best words I have for it, but I will try to explain. As I passed into the second light, I expanded beyond the first light. I found myself in a profound stillness, beyond all silence. I could see or perceive FOREVER, beyond infinity. I was in the void. I was in pre-creation, before the Big Bang. I had crossed over the beginning of time - the first word - the first vibration. I was in the eye of creation. I felt as if I was touching the face of God. It was not a religious feeling. Simply I was at one with absolute life and consciousness.

When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That's a mind-expanding thought, isn't it? Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event which created the universe. I saw that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by supercomputers using fractal geometry equations." (Mellen Benedict)
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"There will be a sudden rush to buy farms, ranches, and homes in the country.

Thousands will attempt to flee from cities, hoping that a return to the land and

nature will provide security. There will be a growing urge to "get away from it

all"---and much money will be invested in land and acreage in rural areas by

people who have secret dreams of raising their own food and cattle and of

becoming self-supporting. The price of open rural land will continue to soar.

Acreage within 100 miles of most major cities will skyrocket out of reach to

all but syndicates." (David Wilkerson, The Vision, page 18,19).
Click to expand...

Pollycy · Dec 8, 2016

Unfortunately, the poll choices were too little and too vague for me. I'd suggest that you ask Stephan Hawking for advice. He's decided, among other things, that "intelligence" and/or "God" had nothing to do with the creation of the universe at all....

. "Hey, ask ME! I make as much sense as a man who's told you that NOBODY created ANYTHING...."

DennisTate · Dec 19, 2016

AlpinLuke said: ↑

If you want to start from vacuum, you could consider the quantum vacuum field as "nursery" for your cosmological model. It's known that the expected value can be zero [and so the field can be "vanishing"] or different from zero [and so the field can be "not vanishing"].

But actually the oscillation of a vacuum quantum field from its ground state to different states is not the core of the matter.

There is an aspect of the universe which is still to be explained by science: the birth of the forces. There was a time when the universe was symmetric and there was [this is what science says today] a "spontaneous" break of the symmetry which generated the forces which rule our universe.

I suspect that in that "spontaneous" break of the symmetry there is the fingerprint of G-d [but of course it's a personal opinion].
Click to expand...

You know I don't entire blame the people who fear this basic idea.....
it actually actually have some rather scary implications.

http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...rings-super-waves-super-energetic-matter.html
In the Beginning... was Super Strings and Super Waves/ Super Energetic Matter!

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Pollycy said: ↑

Unfortunately, the poll choices were too little and too vague for me. I'd suggest that you ask Stephan Hawking for advice. He's decided, among other things, that "intelligence" and/or "God" had nothing to do with the creation of the universe at all....

. "Hey, ask ME! I make as much sense as a man who's told you that NOBODY created ANYTHING...."
Click to expand...

He is biased.... and he fears for his position in high level education.

... or he may be a closet Theist and Chapter 13 of Stephen Hawking's Universe, may have been a gift to us Theists.

DennisTate · Jan 3, 2017

DennisTate said: ↑

Space and time.......
are partly a vehicle........

invented by a being composed of fundamental invisible energy,,,,,(perhaps the ultimate Energy from Quantum Vacuum).....

who has gone past..... inventing non-sentient things.......

and has graduated to inventing intelligences.... .with separate and unique identities and personalities........

who need something like space and time.... in order to learn higher levels of empathy for others............

But....... the need for space and time......
was perhaps made most obviously necessary by an immature response by a created being who could perhaps be compared to an
Artificial Intelligence........ to our minds in 2016?!
Click to expand...

I just got an update on this question from another one of my online Theoretical Physicist friends.
Pretty heavy stuff!

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hidden-un-realities-graham-p?trk=hb_ntf_MEGAPHONE_ARTICLE_POST
Hidden Un-Realities
Published on December 21, 2016
Graham P.

Graham P.:

Lee Smolin discusses the problem of who or what set the initial conditions of our universe. He states that the conditions are highly tuned. He suggests that time is real and hints that free will may be real. I understand Lee smolin believes that our universe's initial states evolved before our spacetime or Big Bang. He suggested our universe is a organism born from the interaction of two parents. This idea requires many universes. You may need to read his book "Time Reborn" for whether he still believes in many universe If t evolved organism theory of universes is true we have the strong possibility that such organisms are alive (with minds and feelings) like humans, cats or plants.

Whether we believe in a living universe or a manipulating game master we have something a little like the religious idea of a creating God. But we need to be careful that we do not assume because some aspects of the idea of God seems likely that we assume all beliefs of God are true. In Science we look to evidence to disprove old ideas and look for new ones that fit what we see. Different individuals and different Faiths sometimes have slightly different ideas of God. My main concern with Christianity is the claim that it is the only path to God. In my opinion Science points towards a God who is largely hidden. Whether this is due to disinterest or giving us room to grow or some other reason is unsure. In either case it is certain that we are very blessed to have been given such a rich planet to live on and a universe so finely tuned to our needs. God or Nature has given all we need, sadly we may wind up messing up our Eden and turning it into a Hell on Earth. (Graham P)
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Woolley said: ↑

I have read plenty of books on string theory intended for laymen like ourselves. No one has ever posited that particles existing in one or more planes have intelligence or consciousness.
Click to expand...

Take a look at the reply in post #55 here.

DennisTate · Jan 3, 2017

AlpinLuke said: ↑

If you want to start from vacuum, you could consider the quantum vacuum field as "nursery" for your cosmological model. It's known that the expected value can be zero [and so the field can be "vanishing"] or different from zero [and so the field can be "not vanishing"].

But actually the oscillation of a vacuum quantum field from its ground state to different states is not the core of the matter.

There is an aspect of the universe which is still to be explained by science: the birth of the forces. There was a time when the universe was symmetric and there was [this is what science says today] a "spontaneous" break of the symmetry which generated the forces which rule our universe.

I suspect that in that "spontaneous" break of the symmetry there is the fingerprint of G-d [but of course it's a personal opinion].
Click to expand...

Would you say that the following idea is a significant step
in the direction of understanding the Creator?

I would!

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hidden-un-realities-graham-p?trk=hb_ntf_MEGAPHONE_ARTICLE_POST

Hidden Un-Realities

One direction to unite such theories is to imagine our world is a simulation running on a quantum computer. The projected reality we see would be similar to the projected 3D world or 2D screens game players see. Observers may change the angle they view the world or even whether they win or lose the game but the data on the hard disk and the code running the game is the same. The game engine and game space can be constant but still give a different game experience. E.g. Chinese players may see a green Chinese dragon speak Chinese and a European player may see a red Scottish dragon speak English. There are some that suggest we actually are living in a simulation and we really are 30th Century people unaware we are playing a game." (Graham P.)
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DennisTate · Feb 28, 2017

Zorroaster said: ↑

The universe is information and we are stationary in it, not three-dimensional and not in space or time. The information fed to us we hypostatize into the phenomenal world.

The phenomenal world does not exist; it is a hypostasis of the information processed by the Mind.

We hypostatize information into objects. Rearrangement of objects is change in the content of the information; the message has changed. This is a language which we have lost the ability to read. We ourselves are a part of this language; changes in us are changes in the content of the information. We ourselves are information-rich; information enters us, is processed and is then projected outward once more, now in an altered form. We are not aware that we are doing this, that in fact this is all we are doing.

The Mind lets in the light, then the dark, in interaction; so time is generated. At the end Mind awards victory to the light; time ceases and the Mind is complete.

He causes things to look different so it would appear time has passed.

The One was and was-not, combined, and desired to separate the was-not from the was. So it generated a diploid sac which contained, like an eggshell, a pair of twins, each an androgyny, spinning in opposite directions (the Yin and Yang of Taoism, with the One as the Tao). The plan of the One was that both twins would emerge into being (was-ness) simultaneously; however, motivated by a desire to be (which the One implanted in both twins), the counter-clockwise twin broke through the sac and separated prematurely; i.e. before full term. This was the dark or Yin twin. Therefore it was defective. At full term the wiser twin emerged. Each twin formed a unitary entelechy, a single living organism made of psyche and soma, still rotating in opposite directions to each other. The full term twin, called Form I by Parmenides, advanced correctly through its growth stages, but the prematurely born twin, called Form II, languished.

The changing information which we experience as world is an unfolding narrative. It tells about the death of a woman. This woman, who died long ago, was one of the primordial twins. She was half of the divine syzygy. The purpose of the narrative is the recollection of her and of her death. The Mind does not wish to forget her. Thus the ratiocination of the Brain consists of a permanent record of her existence, and, if read, will be understood this way. All the information processed by the Brainexperienced by us as the arranging and rearranging of physical objectsis an attempt at this preservation of her; stones and rocks and sticks and amoebae are traces of her. The record of her existence and passing is ordered onto the meanest level of reality by the suffering Mind which is now alone.

This loneliness, this anguish of the bereaved Mind, is felt by every constituent of the universe. All its constitutes are alive. Thus the ancient Greek thinkers were hylozoists.

In Summary: thoughts of the brain are experienced by us as arrangements and rearrangementschangein a physical universe; but in fact it is really information and information-processing which we substantialize. We do not merely see its thoughts as objects, but rather as the movement, or, more precisely, the placement of objects: how they become linked to one another. But we cannot read the patterns of arrangement; we cannot extract the information in iti.e. it as information, which is what it is. The linking and relinking of objects by the Brain is actually a language, but not a language like ours (since it is addressing itself and not someone or something outside itself).

We should be able to hear this information, or rather narrative, as a neutral voice inside us. But something has gone wrong. All creation is a language and nothing but a language, which for some inexplicable reason we can't read outside and can't hear inside. So I say, we have become idiots. Something has happened to our intelligence. My reasoning is this: arrangement of parts of the Brain is language. We are parts of the Brain; therefore we are language. Why, then, do we not know this? We do not even know what we are, let alone what the outer reality is of which we are parts. The origin of the word "idiot" is the word "private." Each of us has become private, and no longer shares the common thought of the Brain, except at a subliminal level. Thus our real life and purpose are conducted below our threshold of consciousness.

From loss and grief the Mind has become deranged. Therefore we, as parts of the universe, the Brain, are partly deranged.

Out of itself the Brain has constructed a physician to heal it. This subform of the Macro-Brain is not deranged; it moves through the Brain, as a phagocyte moves through the cardiovascular system of an animal, healing the derangement of the Brain in section after section. We know of its arrival here; we know it as Asklepios for the Greeks and as the Essenes for the Jews; as the Therapeutae for the Egyptians; as Jesus for the Christians.

Tractates Cryptica Scriptura
Click to expand...

I just noticed this quotation in somebody's signature.....
and I have the impression that you could go somewhere with this idea.

"Multiplicity is only apparent, in truth, there is only one mind..." Erwin Schrodinger

Pollycy · Mar 1, 2017

...and what makes you think that "intelligence" has, in fact, already begun...?

With the passing of every day, I become more convinced that Clarke was right when he wrote in his underappreciated masterpiece, "Childhood's End", "...the stars are not for man."

DennisTate · Mar 1, 2017

Pollycy said: ↑

...and what makes you think that "intelligence" has, in fact, already begun...?

With the passing of every day, I become more convinced that Clarke was right when he wrote in his underappreciated masterpiece, "Childhood's End", "...the stars are not for man."
Click to expand...

LOL!

Good one Pollycy!

By the way... you are one of the other people who I at least gave some consideration to ......
at the time that I tried my best to talk AboveAlpha into entering politics.

"Intelligence" is a word... it is subject to definition.....
and substitution......
and what my wife has made me aware of over these past 16 years.......
could roughly fit the definition of the word "intelligence.'

My gifted Ecuadorian wife.... (who just became a Canadian citizen last week).....
and her friends in the Charismatic / Pentecostal community.....
have surprised and impressed me again and again and again with the gifts that
they have!?

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/61519-kim-clement-prophesied-trump-s-presidency-in-2007

Kim Clement Prophesied Trump's Presidency in 2007

Aha... they took out the video....
here is another link to it.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFfFtq1fljY

Kim Clement prophesying about Donald Trump 2007

scarlet witch · Mar 2, 2017

it began when a woman asked "does my bum look big in this?" ...and man for the first time said 'no"

to be more serious, I think intelligence begin with awareness... intelligence for a life form begins when awareness occurs. No way really of telling when that was.

As far as the earliest origins of life goes, this was published recently

Fossilised filaments from hot ocean vent claimed to be earliest evidence of life on Earth

An international team of scientists has discovered what they believe are the fossilised remains of microorganisms that would have clustered around a hot, seafloor vent.

They said the discovery, published today in Nature, complements other evidence of early life found last year in 3.71-billion-year-old fossil stromatolites in Greenland.
Click to expand...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-02/fossilised-filaments-claimed-to-be-earliest-evidence-of-life/8316248

[video=youtube;jeAXmTjcPhI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeAXmTjcPhI[/video]

cerberus · Mar 2, 2017

Women's bums look big in everything!

scarlet witch · Mar 2, 2017

I see intelligence is still working it's way towards some of the population

cerberus said: ↑

Women's bums look big in everything!
Click to expand...

cerberus · Mar 2, 2017

scarlet witch said: ↑

I see intelligence is still working it's way towards some of the population
Click to expand...

DennisTate · Mar 3, 2017

Pollycy said: ↑

Unfortunately, the poll choices were too little and too vague for me. I'd suggest that you ask Stephan Hawking for advice. He's decided, among other things, that "intelligence" and/or "God" had nothing to do with the creation of the universe at all....

. "Hey, ask ME! I make as much sense as a man who's told you that NOBODY created ANYTHING...."
Click to expand...

He is wrong.......
Once fundamental energy developed something resembling CURIOUSITY.....then
great things began to be done!

He puts forward a very similar idea to the following in chapter 13 of Stephen Hawking's Universe, but....
he has to word in a way that sounds Atheistic.....
because he knows that he can lose his chair at Oxford if he comes out of the close as
actually being an Agnostic..... rather than an Atheist
which is considered much more cool!

http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a05

When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That's a mind-expanding thought, isn't it? Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event which created the universe. I saw that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by supercomputers using fractal geometry equations.
Click to expand...

"He is wrong"
sure sounds like an accusation......
it is far more likely that he is merely lying in order to keep his position.

He has good reason to do so though......
just as Oskar Schindler lied and said that he was greedy.....
so also... .Stephen Hawking Ph. D. is wise to lie, say he is an Atheist...... word his theories in such a way that fits with Atheism......
but set us Theists and Agnostics up for later on!

Shiva_TD · Apr 5, 2017

DennisTate said: ↑

I am an Evolutionary Theist........

I am of the belief that a being with "Godlike" technological capability

began, far far far far far more than 13.72 billion years ago, in
fundamental or nearly fundamental energy that to at least some
degree corresponds with "Energy from Quantum Vacuum."
Click to expand...

It's nice to have opinions but it's even nicer to have opinions with a foundation.

Two fundamental problems.
1. No source for the energy being referred to.
2. Energy has no intellectual properties.

Shiva_TD · Apr 5, 2017

DennisTate said: ↑

Once fundamental energy developed something resembling CURIOUSITY.....then
great things began to be done!
Click to expand...

Energy can't develop curiosity because it has no means of storing knowledge.

I'm always reminded of the "Ghost" investigation on TV that my wife watches. I annoy her no end because when the ghost hunters say, "Do something if you hear me" I always respond out loud, "They can't hear you" and she tells me to shut up even though she knows I'm right. A ghost can't hear anything because hearing requires physical sensors that feel the vibrations of sound in the atmosphere.

Energy cannot store information because information must be stored in a physical "container" of some kind.

Jonsa · Apr 5, 2017

AlpinLuke said: ↑

If you want to start from vacuum, you could consider the quantum vacuum field as "nursery" for your cosmological model. It's known that the expected value can be zero [and so the field can be "vanishing"] or different from zero [and so the field can be "not vanishing"].

But actually the oscillation of a vacuum quantum field from its ground state to different states is not the core of the matter.

There is an aspect of the universe which is still to be explained by science: the birth of the forces. There was a time when the universe was symmetric and there was [this is what science says today] a "spontaneous" break of the symmetry which generated the forces which rule our universe.

I suspect that in that "spontaneous" break of the symmetry there is the fingerprint of G-d [but of course it's a personal opinion].
Click to expand...

I have no problem at all in acknowledging that the moment you are describing is far far far beyond our understanding and challenges the limits of our conceptualization AND current science. So, the hypothesis that in some sort of divine experiment designed to create all that is our universe and life, even as an agnostic atheist i can readily understand how many have faith in such an idea as it conforms nicely to their personal "spiritual" ideas.

DennisTate · Apr 5, 2017

Jonsa said: ↑

I have no problem at all in acknowledging that the moment you are describing is far far far beyond our understanding and challenges the limits of our conceptualization AND current science. So, the hypothesis that in some sort of divine experiment designed to create all that is our universe and life, even as an agnostic atheist i can readily understand how many have faith in such an idea as it conforms nicely to their personal "spiritual" ideas.
Click to expand...

That is not entirely true......
when fundamentalist Christians have a near death experience.... they are
transformed and tend to become Universalist afterwards.

This is actually a pretty major philosophical shift for them....

http://www.near-death.com/religion/...death-experience-and-universal-salvation.html

Chapter 10
The Near-Death Experience and Universal Salvation
by Dr. Ken R. Vincent

Jonsa · Apr 6, 2017

DennisTate said: ↑

That is not entirely true......
when fundamentalist Christians have a near death experience.... they are
transformed and tend to become Universalist afterwards.

This is actually a pretty major philosophical shift for them....

http://www.near-death.com/religion/...death-experience-and-universal-salvation.html

Chapter 10
The Near-Death Experience and Universal Salvation
by Dr. Ken R. Vincent
Click to expand...

I ascribe NDE's to the hallucinations of oxygen deprivation to the brain as opposed to some mystical soul adventure. But that is just me.

Having taken a whole bunch of hallucinogens in my youth I can tell you that having out of body experiences is not limited to NDE's, so I know what it "feels" like and it ain't real, far out but not real.

DennisTate · Apr 26, 2017

Jonsa said: ↑

I ascribe NDE's to the hallucinations of oxygen deprivation to the brain as opposed to some mystical soul adventure. But that is just me.

Having taken a whole bunch of hallucinogens in my youth I can tell you that having out of body experiences is not limited to NDE's, so I know what it "feels" like and it ain't real, far out but not real.
Click to expand...

Or was it in some ways more real than what we see in four dimensional space - time?

If... intelligence does exist in fundamental or nearly fundamental energy and if......
there is a fifth, sixth, seventh, eight, ninth, tenth and eleventh dimension of space time above
our fourth dimension then.......
the technological capability of an Intelligence / intelligence... .composed of fundamental or
nearly fundamental energy could be astonishing??!

The following quotation is from about 90% of the way down this page:

http://64.71.77.248/fq-protestant/tfq-en.html

The Power of His Word

“You seek to know and walk in My power so that you can heal the sick and perform miracles, but you have not even begun to comprehend the power of My word. To resurrect all the dead who have ever lived on earth will not even cause Me to strain. I uphold all things by the power of My word. The creation exists because of My word, and it is held together by My word.

“Before the end, I will reveal My power on earth. Even so, the greatest power that I have ever revealed on the earth, or ever will, is still a very small demonstration of My power I do not reveal My power to cause men to believe in My power, but to cause men to believe in My love.

“If I had wanted to save the world with My power when I walked the earth, I could have moved mountains by pointing a finger Then all men would have bowed to Me, but not because they loved Me or loved the truth, but because they feared My power I do not want men to obey Me because they fear My power, but because they love Me and love the truth.

“If you do not know My love, then My power will corrupt you. I do not give you love so you can know My power, but I give you power so that you can know My love. The goal of your life must be love, not power Then I will give you power with which to love people. I will give you the power to heal the sick because you love them, and I love them, and I do not want them sick." (Pastor Rick Joyner, The Final Quest and The Call)
Click to expand...

Guno · Apr 26, 2017

DennisTate said: ↑

If you are willing to go into philosophy and parapsychology......

I have read an extremely good explanation for our own intelligence that

indicates that a part of you..... .and a part of me.... .is older than 13.72 billion years.

Much older than that:

http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...an-andreason-he-onto-something-important.html
Click to expand...

DennisTate said: ↑

parapsychology
Click to expand...

parapsychology is not a science

Parapsychology is a field of study concerned with the investigation of paranormal and psychic phenomena which include telepathy, precognition, clairvoyance, psychokinesis,near-death experiences, reincarnation, apparitional experiences, and other paranormal claims. It is identified as pseudoscience by the overwhelming majority of mainstream scientists

As a materialist I consider it to be on the same plane as theology, mental masturbation

tecoyah · Apr 26, 2017

DennisTate said: ↑

Or was it in some ways more real than what we see in four dimensional space - time?

If... intelligence does exist in fundamental or nearly fundamental energy and if......
there is a fifth, sixth, seventh, eight, ninth, tenth and eleventh dimension of space time above
our fourth dimension then.......
the technological capability of an Intelligence / intelligence... .composed of fundamental or
nearly fundamental energy could be astonishing??!

The following quotation is from about 90% of the way down this page:

http://64.71.77.248/fq-protestant/tfq-en.html
Click to expand...

IF and COULD serve no actual purpose when evaluating reality, instead they allow people to delve into possible realities often at the cost of examining what is real. Imagination is certainly one part of the human experience but it is only a small part that allows science to take over. In the case of the NDE, imagination combines with the spiritual to delve into unknowable data which by definition cannot be science.

Natty Bumpo · Apr 26, 2017

Pollycy said: ↑

...and what makes you think that "intelligence" has, in fact, already begun...?
Click to expand...

Clarke's "Childhood's End" and the monumental achievement of effortlessly making ice cubes in the summer come to mind.

And I'm sure that there must be a few other manifestations that escape me at the moment.

Jonsa · Apr 26, 2017

DennisTate said: ↑

Or was it in some ways more real than what we see in four dimensional space - time?

If... intelligence does exist in fundamental or nearly fundamental energy and if......
there is a fifth, sixth, seventh, eight, ninth, tenth and eleventh dimension of space time above
our fourth dimension then.......
the technological capability of an Intelligence / intelligence... .composed of fundamental or
nearly fundamental energy could be astonishing??!

The following quotation is from about 90% of the way down this page:

http://64.71.77.248/fq-protestant/tfq-en.html
Click to expand...

I'm afraid tha for me, that is way to many "Ifs" to be considered anything more than an exercise in imagination.

TrackerSam · Apr 26, 2017

Jonsa said: ↑

I ascribe NDE's to the hallucinations of oxygen deprivation to the brain as opposed to some mystical soul adventure. But that is just me.

Having taken a whole bunch of hallucinogens in my youth I can tell you that having out of body experiences is not limited to NDE's, so I know what it "feels" like and it ain't real, far out but not real.
Click to expand...

There's plenty of evidence to the contrary when the doctors and nurses verify the NDEr's account.

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Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?

The first Intelligence began in.....?

Carbon based life less than 5 billion years ago, on earth.

Carbon based life in outer space.

Fundamental or nearly fundamental energy.

This is a new question that I am only now facing.

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Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?

The first Intelligence began in.....?

Carbon based life less than 5 billion years ago, on earth.

Carbon based life in outer space.

Fundamental or nearly fundamental energy.

This is a new question that I am only now facing.

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