Satellite images reveal vast russian losses in Ukraine.

Seriously? Why play Semantics? Don't think anyone cares that a tank battalion with an RF flag up front isn't present. Russians are there. All kinds. The OP picture is not true as to those being official RF troops but does it matter?

What I'm thinking is.. Putins in trouble. Once we fund the Ukraine plus our now obvious huge investment and military actions boost in Syria... Ah anyone else see the problem? Money.

These kind of proxy wars are expensive and I think.. I think Russia might dump Assad and focus on the Ukraine. Otherwise we will either A. Bleed Russia dry of money or B. Force them into a military action they can't win. I say that because I thought they had already helped Assad win. They thought it too probably but no...

No we the US are now supporting anyone who will pick up a gun over there now against ISIS or Assad so.. Our Al Qaeda " rebels" are all over Syria.. Drawing strength from us.

Live Syrian war map shows it. Putin can't afford both proxy wars. Doesn't have the money. Should dump Syria focus Ukraine

 

Like I say you got nothing...on top of that making threats against a neighboring state, how poetic, atypical, moskali, sovok attitude, yeah of course no backing off from Krim? just take like everything else.....maybe Alaska? Is the lease up? What with the "people having internet, lost relatives, and diplomatic immunity " all rolled into one? Another one of your moments?

 

Approximately half of "Imarate Caucasus" have sworn loyalty to ISIS in 2015. People, who been committing acts of terror since end of last war in Checnya working on behalf of terrorist organisation, that had balls to recruit in our country, and later - commit there acts of terror. If you have not heard of ISIS being problem of the Federation - that does not means it is not - or cannot be proven to be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus_Emirate#Syrian_Civil_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Russia#More_recent_attacks
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/01/middleeast/isis-russia-recruiting/index.html

https://www.ridus.ru/news/189818 - that is somewhat a treat. She studied on one faculty with wife of my close friend. Basically, that is when I learned that we, surprisingly, have ISIS recruiters actively working in our country.

So, for our country since their foundation ISIS turned into a serious threat, especially for the youth of our muslim citizens. We are secular state, with majority of citizenship being either christians or atheists, yet with somewhat 1/5 of citizes being muslims. If ISIS establishes there serious underground activity - it may be distaterous for country. Way more disasterous than anything they can ever do in USA, literally. And what they can do in USA has been enough to drive your government to send there army. In this case we are not different, activity of this group is a threat to our country and government.

 

I believe Russia has ISIS problems but now the US is investing billions and military support directly to eradicating ISIS via Trumps escalation. So ISIS we will kill now. Doesn't explain how Russia can afford to support Assad for much longer though.

Keep in mind ima Putin fan. He's just facing an opponent with unlimited resources that now has proven is willing to go all in. Basically the US called Putins bluff in Syria and he will have to exit or fight. And he can't fight

 

Hell yea this matters! Citizens of RF, who fight there on their own will and with no orders from Federation's government, are rogues at best. Murderers. Criminals. Not better than any of ukrainian "volunteer" battalions, whom Poroshenko allows to spread carnage in east of their own country, murdering their own people. Violating agreements. Sabotaging the attempts to solve situation through diplomacy. It was not ukrainian army who blocked the coal supply TO UKRAINE from Donbass, it was pro-ukrainian volunteer battalion. People with no authority - who interfered with business between Ukraine and DNR and LNR, and sabotaged cease-fire agreement. And pretty much our "volunteers" there worth as much. Rebels at least fight for their own land, at least fight against government they do not recognise as legit. The foreigners here - are fuсking armed tourists, who use country where PEOPLE LIVE as a fuсking shooting gallery and play into soldiers without being them.

Only this is not what Ukraine claims and forum users here claim. They claim these people are SOLDIERS OF RF, and that Federation is responsible for their actions. While in fact - it isn't. They are on their own, and on their own are to suffer the consequences of their decidions.

 

Well, I am not a Putin's fan, and hardly care what happens to Assad as person. I care about war in Syria ending not with his head on pike, as it happened in Lybia - because at best it will leave country with several governments at once, LIKE IN LYBIA. I frankly, as human being, would prefer government of Syria remaining, then having elections with Assad being blocked from participation by some UN resolution - peacefully sent out of the country with family - and with country left to syrians to deal with. Not to various quazi-terrorist organisations that so far proven themselves to be as reckless as Assad or even ISIS.

 

Your Caucasian population have been influenced by the Wahhabis for some time, so I'm not surprised that ISIS has a foothold there, but do you really believe that having ISIS in Syria constitutes a serious threat to Russia? Russian involvement is likely to make their domestic Muslim problem worse, not better.

And the Patriarch calling it a "holy war" was incredibly foolish.

 

I 100% agree with this except for me being a Putin fan, I greatly admire his leadership skills. I've supported Russia and Assad all the way through the BS revolution because of exactly what you stated. And I detest KSA. and hard line sharia Muslims, which will take over if we oust/kill Assad.

but it is becoming very apparent that we the US are willing to openly support our " rebels" against Assad. I was hoping for a deal. We all kill ISIS then Assad gives up x, y, for z.

Doesn't appear to be going that route.

 

Actually, serious problems started before our involvement in war in Syria. Caucasian "emirate" joined ISIS in June of 2015, the military operation of RF army in Syria started in September 2015. The active recruitment in our country have been going on since at least spring of 2015, you can check this by date of incident with MGU student. Yes, operation in Syria made them reckless in RF.
But they already been serious threat before it begun.

As for patriarch - well, he is not exactly known for being smart. Mostly he known for wearing golden Rolex and having a personal yacht. Bleh.

 

Gotta admit that the domestic Muslim issue never occurred to me. I never could figure out why the Russians care. I still don't think this was Putin's primary reason for getting involved in Syria, but I need to give it a lot more consideration.

My point was only that the Russians have to be involved in Ukraine. The assumed non-expansion of NATO was important to Russian sensibilities following the Cold War. Having Ukraine potentially join would put Western forces nearly at the point where Nazi forces were finally stopped. Russian population centers and infrastructure would be impossible to defend from that position. Western involvement in the events surrounding the coup really piqued the concern of Russian leadership.

The Russians are desperately hanging on to their geopolitical position, not trusting the long-term intentions of the Westerners, the Chinese, or the Islamic states.

 

If you believe
this odoriferous Crap, poof'd out the exhaust of the zzCopter
...................... Then here's some nifty Anthrax I'll sell you



Cheap to all the bleating Copter Sheep

 

They have awfully cold weather.

 

True but they have very cool fur hats to compensate.

 

This was very well put. So we all agree that Russia should " strategically reposition" out of Syria and invade Ukraine ( make up an excuse) ( or pour Syrian resources into the rebels) before it joins NATO or before we give them so many resources they can't be taken. Russia's gotta move fast though while we are distracted... Or maybe Russia can hold out long enough for us to attack NK. Then push Ukraine.

Your welcome Putin! We fixed all your problems.

 

Syria really isn't drawing that many Russian resources. They've basically already achieved their goal, anyways. It's likely they just want to keep their planes in the sky until peace talks are concluded. Those Russian planes are acting as a force field preventing more aggressive American action.

But I think that the Russian position in Eastern Europe is really untenable. They really needed Ukraine to at least be a neutral player. At this point they'd need to launch an open invasion of Ukraine to achieve that goal, and I don't think they will.

Their best option at this point is to stoke division in both the EU and NATO. The problem is that Eastern European countries will likely remain a bloc quite intent on pushing back against Russian influence.

I don't envy the Russian position.

 

Well, I asm sure we involved, and in more than just negotiations, plausibly more than in just supplying the rebels. At very least I would've expected our government to send in special forces to clean such scum as Rusich. Can you imagine stories about people who been peeling flesh from people's heads to point of very skulls..? I still am surprised they did not became a source of constant harass for RF. And problably diversions of all sorts.. But this is theory. I do not know for sure, if we had or had not spetsnaz operating in Ukraine, and not very willing to assume that without a good proof. But I can believe in that being possible.


The issue I have is with official version of Kiev, forced by some forum members there: about government of Russian Federation secretly sending there conscripts in hundreds, burying them in unmarked graves, and somehow keeping it all secret for over two years.

I have several points that do not work for that claim. First of them being practicality: conscripts are mainly teens, from age of 18 to somewhat 21, due to age of conscription being 18 but sometimes it being delayed when conscript is studying in university. Half of year they can't even participate in any military operations, they go through a training. So in the end we have teenagers with half of year of drills who have half of year until their mandatory decommission from service. If they sent in Ukraine - either supposed that they will be able to keep military secret or will never return from there at all. To send young citizens of country in hundreds on (presumably) guaranteed death would be idiotic - they won't get job done, they may end having a mutiny, will be lost to society AND government AND will get families ruined with their deaths. Too much of harm to country with not enough of benefit. And if they supposed to return - only a total moron would espect hundreds, if not thousands of teenagers to keep a secret about massive war country has, in age of Internet, selfies and social networks. Again, too much fuzz and risk for too little gain.

The "evidences" presented in media usually originate from Ukrainian sources, and more often than not have sloppy details, that make whole thing fall apart - either they need assumption that RF governed by total demons or that conscripts are total morons who don't get alerted even for a second by "battalion after battalion driven on trucks with no numbers", "asked to sign papers without reading" and other cliche things that come in mind when you think of words "abduction" and "slavery".

The third issue I have - is reaction of the opposition. Ok, we assume that media of RF is 100% under control of government - but there are people who have zero sympathy for government, from cunning politicans making career on anti-Putin sentiment, like Navalniy, to freaks in tinfoil hats who openly call for a new revolution. Non of them uses the "war in Ukraine" as leverage for public opinion. And that while Ukraine claims that there are thousands of families in RF who lost their relatives there. It would've raised resonance among people. For Christ's sake, we got people going to rallies just because of government's corruption. The governmental genocide of our youth would've raised millions against Putin, and would've been a goldmine for any oppositoneer. Yet - it is not mentioned by politians, not mentioned by bloggers - couple of whom, who I keep eyes on, even migrated out of country and surely would've not stayed silent if there was something to talk, and not mentioned even by freaks, who operate with terms "jew-massons" and "retiloids".

Fourth issue I have is similar to third, but related to specific group of people: the Commitee of Soldier's Mothers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_the_Committees_of_Soldiers'_Mothers_of_Russia - a volitile combination of adequate people, oveprotective mommies and ruthless lawyers, that have been pain in ass of our army since day it was formed. This organisation, that is responsible for decline of the "dedovshina" - aka soldier's abuse in army - as well as for helping conscripts avoid the military service through legal and almost legal methods - did basically nothing over the so caled war in Ukraine. One member of organisation once bringed question up, and that is it. Government dislikes them, army hates them, but people LISTEN to them. In early 2000th they were the almost only thing saving conscripts who were getting in especially tough regiments, more often than not saving boys from basically comitting suicides or chopping their toes off to get decommissioned. This organisation would've not stayed silent, if there was what to talk about. They would've bit in issue like a bulldog and would've made such a scandal from it, that no money would've stopped it. These are mainly mothers of these exact soldiers serving that we are speaking about, it is impossible to bribe hundreds of mothers to let their sons die.



And now think of all that combined. It just could've not been like that, if we really had government sending army in Ukraine, as politicians in Kiev claim. Yet - this is what we have, while government in Kiev has more than enough reasons and means to make up the story about the "russian invasion", just like they made up numbers of Holodomor victims by adding in TEN MILLIONS of "birth deficit", and delicately forgetting about victims of same exact famine in other regions of Soviet Union. They have support of USA government, that gets media make articles that make population have pro-ukrainian sentiment, with no regards to very basic principles of logic, through which all this pile of сrap falls apart in seconds.

 

I'm just picking this part of your post so mine isn't so long, I promise I read all of it.

So a few points. To begin: There's no doubt that Ukrainian and official Western accounts are inclined to present as dim a view as possible of Russian involvement. The Russians, like the Americans, have been inclined to provide "non-lethal" support to rebel forces. BUT they have provided artillery support, some lethal arms, and soldiers. Not conscripts, that would be stupid, but the best of the best, and mostly in unofficial capacities. The amount of money going to these "volunteers" is quite substantial, not something a poor rebel group could scrounge together.

The small number of captured Russian soldiers points to the following fact: Moscow is inclined to keep it's involvement in Ukraine very very deniable.

I basically dismiss Ukrainian accounts out of hand, but I do not believe that such a wide variety of Western news sources are being so thoroughly dishonest. Russia is involved in Ukraine, and has sent at least some official soldiers and a large number of volunteers into the conflict.

 

Well, as I said - I am sure we are involved, and plausibly in more than just supplying rebels.

At very least I can't say "yes" because I really do not know for sure, aside from that - we speak of theoretical covert operation of my country. It just not right for me to say "yes" to thing like that.

But it is very plausible, albeit there still are, really are, enough morons who go there on their own just for sake of adrenaline or murdering people "because it is war". Cretins and rabid dogs, who get what they seek - soiled pants and bullet in forehead.

This is, at least, something understandable.. And at same time something non of citizens of my country is responsible for. Nearly non would've supported that, and... This basically is it. If there really is going operation like that - I am against it. We have United Nations, we have established international laws. And only we can make them actually work.

 

The UN is never going to accomplish anything that harms the interests of a major geopolitical power. Your countrymen are taking vigorous action in light of that fact.

As long as Russians and Americans don't trust one another this will continue.

 

Well, I frankly hope that sooner, than later, our politicians will stop feeding people shιt to keep this conflict ongoing, and that we will actually get a world we can live in without a fear of atomic annihilation.

 

Sanctions are the retaliation from the international community, just because you choose to pretend there's no sanctions doesn't automatically cancel them.

I don't care about your insults, it's like little puffs of air... insignificant

 

I think it's a bit too easy to blame politicians, they don't have easy jobs. The fact of the matter is that they have limited moves they can make.

One of the fascinating things about history is that it gives you a much more compassionate view of national leaders, where distance makes it easy to make unbiased judgements of their actions. You come to understand that they really believed they were doing the right thing, and many times simply had no choice in what actions they took.

 

The French is looking to help resolve Ukraine conflict

http://www.politico.eu/article/macron-ukrain-russia-hopeful-of-resolving-conflict/

 

And as far as some posters in this thread claim there are no Russian military in Ukraine.... it's common knowledge,

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/21/russia-cancels-us-talks-ukraine-sanctions

 

So you think even with US escalating our involvement in Syria there's going to be a settlement that leaves Assad in power? I USED to think it was a foregone conclusion.

Not so much atm. I'd love to be wrong. Have you seen the current event map? It's insane... Also what precipitates these talks? ISIS defeated? I was quite miffed we shot down that Syrian bomber. It showed alot more commitment than I wanted to give in support of anti Assad elements