Should Muslims convert or?

But that's not what you're doing, you're just putting the tick next to a different sheep. One that is less likely to be able to do something about the tick.

 

I.e. slaughtered. I think it's good enough.

 

Please elaborate.
I don't care what Muslims do to each other within their culture - it's their business. Let Allah sort them out. I just don't want Muslims to suck our "infidel" blood. So, what's the "other sheep" you are talking about?

 

Everyone is invited to repent
http://www.islamcan.com/islamic-stories/malik-bin-dinar-and-the-thief.shtml

 

Ooh please......

 

Ok, I reckon that's where the difference is. If you want to address the real tensions between pro- and anti-immigration, that's the point you need to argue. What is it that makes a person in the Muslim world being discriminated against less of a travesty than another?

 

It' the attitude of Muslims towards non-Muslims. "Infidels" are looked down on by definition (it's in the Islamic sacred texts).
And that's a big, big problem.
Te thing I can't understand is why you defend them. Me and you are both European and we both see what's going on in Europe. You like that?

 

You do realize that there is not a penny's difference between Old Testament Judaism and modern day Sunni Islam? So if people like the Old Testament they should also love Islam because they are basically identical.

 

Most Western people are Christians or post-Chrsistians, not Jews.

 

And that has what to do with ? = *You do realize that there is not a penny's difference between Old Testament Judaism and modern day Sunni Islam? So if people like the Old Testament they should also love Islam because they are basically identical.*

 

I do know of at least one near death experience account where a Muslim.... .cried out to Messiah Issa - Jesus - Yeshua and was able to go to heaven........
whereas in that same NDE a zealous Christian who refused to forgive others..... did not make it into heaven..... but got stuck in Purgatory / hell... whatever the other place is called.

https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/emanuel-tuwagirairmana.html

 

If that was true then the Patriarch Judah would have had his daughter in law burned........

Gen 38:24

¶
And it came to pass, about three months after, that Judah was told, saying, “Tamar your daughter-in-law has played the harlot; furthermore she is with child by harlotry.” So Judah said, “Bring her out and let her be burned!”


When she was brought out, she sent to her father-in-law, saying, “By the man to whom these belong, I am with child.” And she said, “Please determine whose these are—the signet and cord, and staff.”

So Judah acknowledged them and said, “She has been more righteous than I, because I did not give her to Shelah my son.” And he never knew her again.

Now it came to pass, at the time for giving birth, that behold, twins were in her womb.

 

So one morality towards you and one morality towards them?

I defend them because for any improvement in relations to happen, we need to treat them fairly.

That's not to say we can't speak against bad things, and we have a fully consistent, direct logic to do that, which is we respond to discrimination with the penalties we have against discrimination, regardless of its source (I'm conflating morality and law here, but the logic is effectively the same). This covers each and every person who discriminates, including each Muslims who does. I am not defending any Muslim who discriminates. Discrimination is met with my judgement for discrimination. As such, I'm not failing to address any of the problems you suggest.

The difference between that and addressing Islam as a whole is that doing the latter also catches muslims who for whatever reason do not discriminate. This is important for two reasons. The first is that I would argue that it is morally correct to judge people for themselves and not groups they may belong to. The latter is that I believe that the future relation between the two spheres of influence can only be improved if they can trust that we will treat them fairly. Again, fairly doesn't mean meekly, it means consistently and in a framework which can be understood by them.

 

Didn't you get by now? I consider Muslims victims of Islam. Please read my first sentence in OP.
It is Islam to blame for it is a viscous and dangerous ideology. The same way I don't blame the average Nazi, I blame Nazism and those who condone it - herr Hitler and his close circle - for brainwashing and "using" the average German for their agenda.

 

Actually when you study Nazism the remarkable thing is how many "average" people were happy with it, especially the Jew hate which had been spread by Christians for nearly 2000 years. You cannot compare Nazism with Islam, much as I detest all the Abrahamic faiths. But the question I have never seen answered is what is it about Islam that attracts so many people?

 

Sure I can.
And the answer was uttered by yourself:

Just substitute the word "Nazism" with "Islam".

 

Thanks I noticed how you have no interest in the subject other than Islam Bad.

 

Why it is, isn't it?
A tree is known by its fruits.

 

No better or worse than the other Abrahamic faiths.

 

Islam is far worse than the other two.
IMO, I think Christianity is the better of the three,
Just the documentation of the main characters and their actions creates two different directions the people go.

 

Yeah, christians only killed 6 million jews last century!

 

You're just assuming they were all Christians, much of the SS was not.
They were at war following orders.
What's your point.

 

The point is that without Christian antisemitism the holocaust would never of happened, and please source where the SS were not Christians!

 

Please don't change what I wrote.
WE know Hitler was power hungry,
He de-humanized the Jews, much like Muhammed did, and riled the Christian populace against them.
He controlled the media and propaganda campaign.
However in the beginning they thought they were being deported, not killed.
Most of the German army would have been Christian, however the leaders showed interests in other views.
William Shirrer points out Nazi leaders who rejected Christianity for socialism.
The Waffen SS had representatives of many religions, including Islam, but generally believed in a monotheistic God.

https://www.equip.org/article/nazi-war-christianity/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_the_SS

 

Do not make stuff up, I did not change what you wrote.
Now as I pointed out Christians killed six million Jews last century, you have deflected much, but shown nothing to suggest that is not true.
The SS were mostly Christians unlike the claim you made.
Still, by 1938 "only 21.9 percent of SS members described themselves as gottgläubig, whereas 54 percent remained Protestant and just under 24 percent Catholic."[
From your source!
Christians had an almost unbroken record of Jew Hate, do not pretend that Hitlers or the Nazis few years in power were enough to stir up the Jew Hate required for the Holocaust. It came from Christianity!