Routine Traffic Stop leads to 7 dead - in Odessa

I'm not quite sure of where you're coming from contextually here, lol... By 'these folks' are you talking about staunch 2A advocates resisting unconstitutional erosion of their enshrined Constitutional rights? Furthermore, are you sure that the preponderance of 'these folks' have (in your words)

"raw hate for Americans who don't have the right skin color or the right biological gender, or who don't share other of their various biggotted views." ???

Lol, I'm a Persian Iranian American - gun totin 2A activist, rubbing shoulders w/ thousands of my ilk at the state level & w/ lots of feedback from legislators at the State House. I just don't see it; I think you are woefully misguided in the formulation your opinions, dispersions & characterizations on the matter...

 

That is called freedom.

The Federal Constitution does not give Congress the power to regulate guns. That is a State right. The Federal government got in the gun grabbing business in the 1930s because the States allowed it. All federal gun laws should be declared unconstitutional and null and void.

 

There is nothing within the Constitution's Article I or anywhere else the addresses the regulation of guns. Federal Laws (the laws of the land) are the result of legislation passed by the Congress. Therefore, unless the Supreme Court declares otherwise, Congressional legislation is constitutional. There is no "Federal Constitution" per se. There is only one -- The Constitution of the United States of America.

A bit of advice -- you gun nuts had better start thinking about public safety before the American Public gets sick of your nonsense and goes after the Second Amendment directly.

 

Which right did they lose?

Wiki has a list of terrorist acts over 2018. You can see what groups are featured.

You can also look up who the FBI is worried about - and it isn't Muslims.

I absolutely don't believe these terrorists started mowing down humans because they think they might have to get a background check.

So, what rights do they think are being "eroded" so badly that they have to start killing people?

 

Law by definition is violence - up to and including killing people - and no you don't get to dismiss this fact because we are talking about murder.

1) Bad Law is one factor - it is not the whole story.
2) These laws are laws that mess with individual liberty - illegitimate laws - illegitimacy of authority.

I already gave you one example: freedom of speech, information and freedom of the press. There are numerous others - asset forfeiture - Pot - Prostitution - Child Support - arbitrary search and seizure - offenses against privacy- state propaganda.

 

We have freedom of speech. We have freedom of the press, though the press is blocked from certain types of investigation, especially with corporations.

Asset forfeiture - there is a lot of abuse in that.

Pot is legal here. How about just changing the law? Not getting pot isn't a justification for killing people.

Prostitution, child support - these absolutely do need to be enforced laws. Sorry.

Offenses against privacy - right now, the major offenses against privacy come from private corporations.

State propaganda???

Sorry. These do NOT comprise an excuse for shooting anyone.

Plus, the list of 2018 terrorist acts listed by wiki do not show that these criminals were bothered by these laws. For the most part, they were white supremacists.

 

Did that come out right? You want to be a killer? Then someone can shoot you because you are a killer and it continues to the last person.

 

The Third Amendment is the one you should be concerned about.

 

Not sure if you have heard of Julian Assange but, freedom of the press/freedom of information is being eroded. We have spooks showing up at corporations like Google and Facebook ordering them to censor - and politicians threatening legal action. Transparency in Gov't is at an all time low - those who try to out Gov't criminality through legitimate channels (not talking Snowden or Manning here) are ruthlessly gone after and their lives destroyed.

And the mainstream press is blocked from a whole lot more than one item you list.

Well - glad you recognize one abuse - a violation of the rule of law to boot. Your comment on pot is obtuse and mindless. Pot is not legal everywhere - and further .. if someone was put in jail for pot - obviously they would be upset about it - and obviously this is not - in of itself - justification.

This is not about what constitutes justification in your mind - we went over this - what is your problem ? In addition - have stated numerous times that it is a cumulative thing - what is your deal ? How many times to I have to repeat myself. Quit pretending this is about one issue when have stated numerous times that it is not.

You have no legitimate argument to prevent two people from exchanging money for sex - as in one that does not violate the founding principles .. and we have been over the Child support issue... and your lack of respect for the rule of law and founding principles was laid bare.

There are cases when men have been forced to pay child support for a kid that is not even theirs. I get that you are only for freedoms you agree with - but this is not about you.

Once again - this is not about "YOUR" perspective - this is about the perspective of someone else.

Indeed they do - much of this by corporations is a function of the State however. Further - did you not hear about the NSA en mass spying scandal .. where Clapper lied to congress (felony 1) about en mass spy program (felony 2). Clapper was not even punished - never mind charged - people who tried to out this criminality within Gov't through legitimate channels had their lives ruined.

You can hear their stories here -

In 2013 the creation and dissemination of propaganda on US citizens by our intelligence agency was legalized - not that this was not happening previously but, now it is "State Sponsored Propaganda" .

That said - how can you have been coming to this forum for so long - which means you think about stuff - and not realize that we are inundated with propaganda from the Establishment ? How many examples would you like ? Do you still believe that the war in Iraq was justified on the basis that Saddam had a nuke and there was an imminent threat of him dropping it on us ?

Pardon my french but - either you are being disingenuous and obtuse - or just not thinking - or perhaps you just do not understand what propaganda is.

No sht sherlock - see above

All rational human beings that give a hoot are bothered by bad law in general. These extremist groups even more so than the average person - and frankly - you are not going to hear this in the MSM either - which is the point of the OP.

 

Yes

Ignoring the threat from gun grabbers is not the answer

We must oppose the totalitarians while we are still free men

 

There is a difference between legally killing someone in self defense and shooting someone as a criminal act.

 

April 14, 2009
This is what the Department of Homeland Security thinks about our military men and women who are overseas fighting on our behalf:

the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks

https://americaswatchtower.com/2009...ng-us-veterans-as-potential-terrorist-threat/

That was 10 years ago under Obama. Can anyone cite a terrorist act committed by a returning vet other than Major Nidal Malik Hasan ? Which, by the way, was not a terrorist act, according to Obama, but rather work place violence. Didn't think so.

 

Well, this is quite the compendium of complaints - pretty much impossible to respond to on an individual basis.

I believe in the rule of law and democracy. Much of what you identify comes from laws passed by the representation of the people - democracy. It's stuff the people want. While I didn't agree with war against Iraq, the American people did. While I don't approve of laws against pot, America as a whole has been seriously opposed to removing those laws until recently. It's also the case that our national defense depends on a level of secrecy that is quite logically necessary. I'm glad that we have rules covering whistle blowers. I'm glad our government includes people who risk their own wellbeing to make public information that our government as a whole would like to keep secret. With Vietnam, we got the "Pentagon Papers".

BUT, what I'm seeing in the Wiki list of terrorist events is that the primary perpetrators are white supremacists, people who got fired for cause, kids who were treated badly at school. Many found guns before they found a way to cool off and remember that this is America.

They are not killing people because we went to war in Iraq or because their own state doesn't allow them legal pot or because Assange risked what he did. They aren't killing people because the checks and balances in our government are being defeated by this president.

 

Nobody is grabbing your guns.

When it comes to totalitarians, let's remember that we already have freedom of speech and democracy.

We need to identify specifics and work to change those specifics.

 

And again you go on a long diatribe about what you think - rather than address the factors that contribute to these mass killings.

Look - if everyone thought like you and I - there would be no mass killings - but they don't. And you repeating over and over "no they don't" after giving what you think - is not an argument that relates to this conversation.

Lastly - You don't believe in the rule of law - you only believe in the rule of law for things you agree with .. second- you do not agree with the founding principles on which this nation was founded. You prefer "Tyranny of the Majority" - which is fine - but just quit pretending you have respect for the founding principles.

Democracy vs. Republic. ... In a republic, a constitution or charter of rights protects certain inalienable rights that cannot be taken away by the government, even if it has been elected by a majority of voters. In a "pure democracy," the majority is not restrained in this way and can impose its will on the minority.

We are a Republic - we are not a pure democracy. The point of which is to avoid- Tyranny of the Majority - unless it is an overwhelming majority 2/3rds or more in which case it is a different story.

This works to limit the power of Gov't. You don't want limited Gov't - I get that .. but just quite pretending otherwise.

 

DHS is definitely seriously scary.

I know of only one event perpetrated by a vet in 2018 and beyond - the "hot yoga" shooting, which was inspired by racial hatred.

We've definitely struggled to figure out where internal threats are coming from.

And, we haven't even struggled to figure out what to do about it. For so long, Republicans have simply claimed that we can't address the topic of mass killings until people forget about it - which is just about as stupid as one can possibly get.

 

Being a Republic doesn't require a constitution. And, a democracy can have a constitution. We ARE an amalgam. However, we DO make decisions through representative democracy. And, THAT is what's important.

You're ideas on what I do or don't believe are nonsense. I didn't lie to you about that. Our system was created in a strong attempt to minimize the tyranny of the majority. And, you barely scratched the surface on that topic.

Let's remember that our founders split power between three separate divisions that have methods of checking the improper moves of the other branches while focusing on different aspects of the move (whether it is constitutional, whether it can be done, whether it is funded, whether the people agree, etc.). We have an executive who has less power than our legislature. We have two parts of congress. We have cloture and other rules in the legislature in order to slow tyranny. We deny the three branches of government the power to alter the constitution without significant appeal to the states. We have freedom of speech. We have open session laws, we have requirements for providing information in a timely manner, we have a free press, etc.

 

We have already been through this ... you respect the rule of law - only for things you agree with. You made this clear in our conversation on Child support - You think a man should be responsible - through law - for the financial consequences of a woman's unilateral decision to carry an unintended pregnancy to term. This violates the rule of law principle that one person is not to be punished for the actions of another - and equality under the law - as the woman has the ability to avoid the consequences of an unintended pregnancy where the man does not.

I agree that our system was created to minimize tyranny of the majority - but we no longer follow this system. We live in the land of tyranny of the "minority" - and yammering on about 3 branches of Gov't does not change this as all 3 branches are corrupt and now have way to much power.

"We have freedom of speech" - for the moment .. I previously mentioned the ongoing efforts to trample on freedom of speech, information and freedom of the press.

Your claim that we have a free press is laughable - our press is owned by Oligopolies as is the MSM in general - who cater to the Establishment narrative because that is what the Establishment big money interests that own the MSM demand.

 

No, the requirements of child support are the law and I do respect that law. Child support is absolutely NOT punishment.

I agree we have been lax about asserting the principles guiding press freedom, asserting the oversight rights of congress, insisting that our federal justice system actually holds criminals accountable, etc.

But, we're talking about justification for random mass murder. And, none of this even starts to rise to that level.

 

Prostitution is a capitalististic monetary transaction between to lawful adults. As such, the government should have no say other than to impose a tax if it so chooses.

Child support is the government taking money from one group (mainly fathers), and giving it to another group (mainly mothers), with no requirement that the money be spent on the children. None. Zip. Zero. Child support monies can be legally spent on a day at the spa get a mani/pedi/facial. Not only that, but child support income doesn't even need to be reported as income. It's free money for the recipient, but cannot be claimed as an expense for the payer on their tax return.

 

Do you really think so?

Did you hear about this case? Two women got into a fight sand one ended up dead. There is video which shows the dead woman attacking the the other one. The survivor got arrested for murder.

Subway stabber, 20, who killed a mother, 30, during a vicious brawl was DEFENDING herself from the victim after she was hit by pepper spray, her lawyer claims
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...nding-stabbed-mom-one-NYC-subway-station.html

Watch the video. Was the survivor acting in self-defense?

 

You keep trying to deny reality - that Law by definition - is punishment. Being forced to pay huge amounts of money is a punishment whether you like it or not .. and in this case - it is being forced to pay huge amounts of amounts of money for something that someone else did.

"I respect the law" what a crock and pathetic excuse for an argument - Do you respect the abortion law passed in Georgia- do you respect the law that Hitler made that made Jews subhuman. That someone respects bad law - simply because "its the law" is as worthless an argument as it gets - and logical fallacy to boot - "appeal to authority".

Then you default back to pretending that these issues in relation to bad law and civil liberties violations - in of themselves - have been claimed to be the sole cause - when you have been told 5 times or more that it is a cumulative thing .. it is not just one thing that causes people to do what they do.

Perhaps you are not capable of handling an issue that is not simplistic - not sure what your deal is.

The fact of the matter is that in many of these cases these people did not just wake up one morning and decide to go out and off themselves in a blaze of violent mayhem - it was a long process and involved many different factors.

If you don't think civil liberties violations are a contributing factor - then what factors - (or factor since you cant seem to get past it being more than one) do you think that causes these people to do what they do ?

 

What does this have to do with anything? And yes, I really think so.

 

Nobody can grab our guns today or tomorrow

But the left never gives up trying