America has No Allies in a War with Iran!

I feel terribly sorry for those who believed in that.

 

It is truly sad that you need to keep disseminating misinformation and half-truths, to satisfy your confirmation bias, with manufactured truths. What country outside of the ME does Iran fund terrorism? What was the purpose of the Hezbollah Movement? What is the purpose of Hezbollah in Iran, and Hezbollah in Lebanon? What country provided arms, money, and intelligence to Iran, to broker a release of 7 hostages in Lebanon, as an excuse to illegally fund a terrorist group(contras) in Nicaragua? Why is it that only Sunni-majority Muslim countries, and countries with their own vestige interests, will gladly label Iran as a State-sponsored terrorists organization? Here are a few other state-sponsored terrorist organization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism Also, what country is the top exporter of arms in the world? WE ARE! https://www.sipri.org/media/press-r...-100-russian-arms-industry-moves-second-place Facts do not lie, only people do.

Again, more lies and misleading assertions. America, and other countries, did not directly provide money to Iran. Almost $100B came from the release of already frozen Iranian assets. Most of their own money was used to settle debt obligations(i.e. China). The $1.7B cash payment, was a part of the nuclear deal. It was a negotiated settlement for a debt the US owed Iran. Before the Shah was overthrown, he paid the US $500M for weapons that were never provided. The final agreed on amount, was because of the interest accrued over 35 years. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/us/politics/trump-fact-check.html These are the half-truths, misinformation, and lies, that our corporate-serving government peddles to its gullible people. And to you. I won't bother correcting any more of your prolific, misleading, and blatant lies anymore. It is becoming an exercise in futility. Let the other more informed readers do so.

I'm under no illusions that you might consider telling the truth, and somehow can resolve your politically-induced cognitive dissonance. I do hope that in the future, your baseless opinions, are more grounded in the convergence of objective evidence, rather than in your subjective beliefs. It would also help if you would provide more context to your assertions. In this way, I might understand better, WHY you feel the way you do. This is what a dialogue entails. I also understand why snippets of rote-learned political soundbites might even sound impressive. But without context, they are just a fallacious appeal to our emotions(pathos). We are becoming a passive-aggressive and feckless nation, that is always looking for an excuse to blame others for our illegal actions. How easily we forget all of the corrupt practices, and lies our government has committed. And, are still committing. Is it "We the People..", who are in charge of our government? Or is it our government that is in charge of, "We the People.."? We need Tulsi badly, before the "dumbing down" of Americans is irreversible.

If you, and others, are only interested in seeing American domination of the world, through fear and violence, then just say so. If you just want to satisfy your blood-lust, by seeing the death and the suffering America has caused in sovereign countries for profit, then just say so. If you need to fill your personal insecurities, with xenophobic nationalist BS, then just say so. Stop making these deflective excuses. Just own it. I didn't think so. It is always easy to talk crap, and much harder to back it up.

 

LOL! The US needs no allies against Iran but you are wrong as usual. The US has plenty of allies against Iran.

Why are you rooting for America's enemies?

 

It wasn't illegal.

 

Bush pardoned everyone.

 

Are libraries far left?

 

Bush/Cheney FAILED miserably to crush the Afghanis and the Iraqis so what make you believe that repeating the same mistake for a 3rd time will have a different outcome?

 

Third? I would say the number is waaaaaay higher than that.

 

Abject FAILURE to address the threat topic ignored for derogatory reasons.

 

So, not only is Trump incompetent, borderline insane, who has zero military, domestic, and foreign policy experience, but now he is also incapable of discerning between the merits and relevancy of the information he receives. Can someone please remind me again, why we voted this career criminal and misogynist into office? And, not Bob the plumber? The President of the free world, MUST be able to process an exceptional range of information and advice, and still can make credible and rational objective decisions. Otherwise, the office of Presidency becomes only a role for actors, NOT LEADERS!. The president must be able to convince others, of the merits of his decisions. He can't. Hence, he must circumvent Congress, by using executive decisions. He, like other presidents, must exploit the 2 loopholes in the war powers act, to avoid Congressional approval. That is, the president must inform Congress within 48 hrs. after his actions. And, the President can carry on any military actions for 90 day, even without Congressional approval. Where are these "art of the deal" acumens, he brags about?

During the contra-crisis, Reagan also claimed that he was not aware of the information to save his presidency as well. All those that followed his orders, were thrown under the bus and indicted. Claiming that he is not responsible for his decisions, is the first step towards abject denial. Just as Reagan, Clinton, the Bush's, and Obama, are responsible for their actions and decisions, this madman is certainly no exception. You can certainly keep making excuses for any of the dumb decisions Trump has made, but for the rest of the world, his decisions are just expected.

 

Another ridiculous orange man Bad screed only longer than usual, but filled with the same useless revolting assumptions that since Trump doesn't do what I want him to he must be stupid. By by turns tiresome and boring.

 

Thanks for the nonsequitir.

 

Yet it would seem we are now further way not closer to a war with Iran. In spite of Iran's seeming bellicosity they went out of their way to make sure no one got killed by the Missile attack and damn little actual damage was done. To be sure a Ukrainian airliner was shot down by a trigger happy, jumpy Iranian AA crew but that was not part of the plan so to speak.

 

Trump ordered the cowardly drone attack, that killed Soleimani, but also 9 other top officials of the Iraqi military. He violated sovereign air space to commit an act of war, and an a cowardly act of mass murder(10 people killed). Trump violated criminal law by acting as judge, jury, and executioner, by approving the murder of citizens on foreign soil. Of course, your attitude would become crystal, if this action occurred on American soil. He did not notify Congress, or his allies for any alternate course of action. But he did manage to notify his non-allies(Israel and Saudi Arabia), who gladly gave their blessings(wonder why?). He provided no evidence to NATO or Congress, as to exactly WHAT the imminent and immediate threat to US Troops and civilians was. He did not provide any evidence, regarding what the imminent and immediate threat, Soleimani's visit in Iraq posed. What evidence supported his claim of "self defense"? Other than "he was a very bad terrorist". Not only did Trump not provide any evidence to justify his brazen violation of Iraqi sovereignty, or his clear human rights violation, but he rejoiced and bragged about the killings, without any remorse or normal sensitivity. Like a true sociopath. He even doubled down, when Iraq ask for the murderous US to leave its country. He then threatened to impose sanctions on them, and that they reimburse America for their unwanted and illegal services. Trump's arrogance, and complete absence of human empathy knows no bounds.

Having allies willing to die for your cause, is usually a good indication that your cause is just. Having no FORMAL allies willing to risk their soldiers lives, is usually a sign that the cause is unjust. Having non-FORMAL allies with their own vested agendas, is the equivalent of having a foreign policy staff, composed of Nazis. Who are the US defense allies, supporting the US in a war with Iraq? I even doubt if Israel and Saudi Arabia will invest their militaries, when their proxy whore will die for their cause. Not ours. Why would they spend their money, when they can spend ours?

I remember when we were told that sampans were attacking our battleships(Gulf of Tonkin), and those that questioned the obvious, were called unamerican. When we were told Iraq had WMD's, those that disagreed were called unamerican. People like Tulsi, who were told, that Assad was gassing his own people, were also called unamerican. Later, it was found out to be staged by the CIA, and their paid anti-government rebels. I'm sure that most of the people here, did not CHOOSE to be an American. Therefore, they can only speak from arrogance, and not from choice.

We are a country and world, composed of human beings. Every human being, and every country, is different. Many are good countries, and many are good people. Let's just focus on OUR country and its people being good. If we do that, the rest of the world will lead by our example. Lets start by addressing OUR level of poverty and joblessness. OUR level of crime and prison reform. OUR level of homelessness and health access. OUR level of opportunity and education. and, OUR infrastructure and environmental responsibilities.

So, rather than blindly rooting that "might is right", what is the legal and justifiable mandate, that allows us to keep US soldiers stationed in the ME for 20 years? What is the rationale, for spending over $5T, and ignoring domestic issues, for the last 56 years? Or, like you, "my country, right or wrong". This is the country that I was born into. I will support all the good it does, but will never support all the bad it does. If you believe that America can label someone as a terrorist, and kill them without any due process, then it is YOU who is rooting for the enemy.
​

 

Translation... ding ding ding.. we have a winner....

 

I have nothing whatsoever to do with the dinging sound you are hearing in your own mind.

 

LOL... Your intent was clearly characterized, so unseemly, and yet here you are making it worse.

 

And Barr helped that happen. The government has been rotten for decades at least.

 

Instead of just making the same tired old flippant, and deflective responses, to paint trump as a victim rather than a menace, then just address those prejudicial assumptions that you claim I am making? Maybe you can support your remarks with some facts to dispute my claims. Didn't think so. The truth is so hard to dispute, without deflecting and misrepresenting. Right? And yes, I would prefer that rational human beings, do rational things. Especially, if it is the President of the US. Since I am a rational human being, I WOULD expect him to do what I would intuitively do. If not, then I would expect, at least an explanation why. But from a man, whose lies are now in the thousands, no explanation would survive the minimum of scrutiny. I want him to stop killing people, and you want him to continue, out of loyalty. This is insane to me, as a moral person.

I would prefer that trump not go to war with Iran to steal its oil.
I would prefer that all US military would get out of the ME. It has been 20 years.
I would prefer that Trump not kill people in foreign countries, because his chicken-hawk war-mongering pack of cowards, tell him that they pose a national threat.
I would prefer to avoid the number of body-bags, and the serious and debilitating injuries that Trump will cause
I would prefer that we stop trying to change foreign regimes, to gain favourable access to their resources.
I would prefer that we use the Trillions of dollars, that we use to fund our regime-change efforts, to be used for our domestic needs.
I would prefer that we stop making excuses for anyone who believes that planes can be literally invisible.
I would prefer that we remove this career criminal business failure, who is a world-wide embarrassment for my country

But, I digress. People in denial, or with dissonance, will always see the truth as boring and tiresome. Unless it is THEIR truth. This is why they must make these kind of flippant, and dismissive responses, whenever they face the objective truth. Anything, but mount a rational argument to defend Trumps actions.

So what was the evidence of an imminent and immediate threat to our troops, that justified the murder of an Iranian national? Was the car rigged with explosives, and was he headed towards an American base? He was going to a peace conference, for Christ sakes. So what was the evidence, other than he was a bad terrorist? Do you think that we broke any international laws, by our actions? Of course not. We are all just picking on Trump. If we disagree with his committing an act of war, we are just picking on Trump. If we disagree with him escalating nuclear tension, we are just picking on Trump. If we disagree with him currently dropping bombs on 7 foreign countries, we are just picking on Trump. If we disagree in the American military, illegally occupying a foreign country, then we are just picking on Trump. If we disagree with his sanctioning countries, and causing the death of thousands of innocent civilians and children, then we are just picking on Trump. If fact, short of hiding in a bucker during a nuclear winter he has caused, there is NOTHING Trump can do, that will cause his die-hard supporters to even take pause.

So, if you want to conflate any of the facts that I've submitted, as I am just picking on Trump, then please lets hear your rational argument. Also, is there someone else who is responsible for our atrocities? And, our interventionist foreign policy?

 

I didn't read any facts just feelings and meritless assumptions. We've had a more or less interventionist foreign policy for decades sometimes merited some times not. The biggest problem with it over the long haul is a stupid tendency to treat every problem as a nail and whack it with the appropriate hammer. This only gets a lot of people killed and not infrequently doesn't solve the underlying problem.

The problem with the Middle East is the place is pretty much unique. This uniqueness is entirely a function of the religion followed in the area. Islam can only ever be a religion of peace if everyone else surrenders to it's adherents It's written in the Koran, and the hadiths, the lenses through which it is interpreted by the various sects, are often worse.

 

The title of the thread is "America has no allies in a war with Iran." Are you trying to derail the thread?

Donald Trump ordered the airstrike that killed an Iranian general last week at least in part due to fears about his upcoming impeachment trial in the Senate, according to a new report.


An article in the Wall Street Journal indicates that Mr Trump has told associates that he ordered the killing of Quds Force leader Qassem Soleimani amid pressure from Republicans who wanted him to take a stronger stance towards Iran.


“Mr Trump, after the strike, told associates he was under pressure to deal with Gen Soleimani from GOP senators he views as important supporters in his upcoming impeachment trial in the Senate,” the report, published Thursday, says.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ment-report-republican-senators-a9279081.html

 

And we did not want them to.

 

Almost everyone knows that imminent is definitive. It means that something, usually a harmful event, is happening soon.

"Those attacks were imminent," Pompeo told CBS News.

Asked about the plot concerning a threat to our embassies in an interview on Fox News that aired Thursday night, Pompeo said, "We don't know precisely when, and we don't know precisely where, but it was real."

Our secretary of state does not even know the what "imminent" means.

Yesterday, Trump said Soleimani was going to attack our Baghdad embassy. Today, Trump said Soleiman was going to attack four American embassies.

Trump has no idea what he is doing, and neither does his lackey, Pompeo.

 

Like who are our allies? LOL Trump has very low approval 20% or so around the world. And going down.