Spirituality without God

I’ve been an atheist a long time now, but I’ve always carried a spirituality to my personality. Organized religion never fit me, initially I wanted to reject it all wholesale, but that never stuck right, left a hollowness that couldn’t satiate.

I’ve done my fair share of psychedelics, which opens you up to see what isn’t there. I’ve studied any religion I can get my hands on, and started reading philosophy at a young age.

I’m often left in a strange purgatory, between totalitarian believers and irrational atheists. I know many are left in such paradise, free from the conformity of insanity.

My question would be why do we silence ourselves? We’re not afraid of the ridiculous, we’ve dealt with it our whole lives. I think we don’t want to offend anyone, because we respect religion, and atheism.

I guess I’m just curious if anyone else will stand up.

 

I feel comfortable calling myself a spiritual person, even as an atheist. I don't believe in the supernatural, but I still think the words "spiritual" and "mystical" can apply, and like you I think I would feel a little empty without it.

When I talk about being spiritual, I mean 4 things:

1) A strong sense of interconnectedness with the world around me. Most people (all people?) aren't in touch with this as part of their default consciousness, but there's a deeper truth to it. Our feelings of being an "island" are the real illusion.

2) An acknowledgement of the importance of symbolism. I don't believe that our senses give us direct access to the world around us. We think in terms of representations. Most of our best explanations for reality are models; while useful, the models themselves are not reality. The map is not the territory (basically instrumentalism). I think it is important to realize that most of our talk of "reality" is a reference to these symbols, so we should embrace the importance of symbolism, even when it comes to "mythic" symbolism.

3) Embracing a Nietzchean attitude toward the importance of our emotions in all of this and the limitations of intellectualism.

4) A rejection of reductionism in favor of a holistic approach to reality. Kind of related to #3.

 

Everybody does; but nobody does it without God or the devil.

 

As a self described 'Christian Humanist,' nonconformist and individualist, I think I get where you're coming from. I find myself increasingly disconnected from the mainstream or orthodox doctrine of any established religion. While I do believe The Bible is the (often metaphorical) Word of God, I also believe its interpretation has been twisted to near uselessness or worse by greedy charlatans and coniving social engineers. Churches tend to run on a spectrum between social clubs and cults, and Jesus' love is most often used to control, conform and oppress people in what I view as an evil or demonic way. In the technical sense, I am more spiritual than religious, even though I loosely identify with a 'major religion.' I find most atheists and agnostics to have a keener grasp on the more meaningful of Jesus' teachings than most of my fellow 'believers' at least in practice, but also I see a movement within the 'militant' atheists (I call them anti-theists and consider them as distinct from atheists) as a sort of cult all their own, preaching with as much faith that any faith is false as those religious that claim a divine right in their interpretation of a scripture.

 

Then you arent an atheist, spirits reside in the supernatural not the4 natural.
Science has no knowledge of spirit.

Nicely contradicts your last statement

Ah yes, its your religion as well

So the atheist mantra doesnt work well for ya huh

Yes as I have proven in our wonderful eineeweenee discussion. Glad to see you expanded your perceptions as a result.

 

Spirituality without religion is dangerous because if one fails to obey a particular strand of rules and regulations (whether they be Hindu or Christian or Islamic) that are critical for one to maintain balance in this universe, then there is the possibility of him losing his spiritually and even more.

A lot of those famous spiritual gurus who engaged in orgies and abused drugs is a reflection of this. The human mind cannot deal with total freedom without there being some sort of restrictions, or rules.

 

So now (as I predicted) we are going to have spiritual 'theistic-atheists'

spiritual
Definition of spiritual

1 : of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal spiritual needs

2a : of or relating to sacred matters spiritual songs
b : ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal spiritual authority lords spiritual

3 : concerned with religious values

4 : related or joined in spirit our spiritual home his spiritual heir

5a : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena
b : of, relating to, or involving spiritualism : spiritualistic

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spiritual

=================================================

supernatural

Definition of supernatural

1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil

2a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature

b : attributed to an invisible agent (such as a ghost or spirit)

=====================================================

spirit

Definition of spirit


1 : an animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms

2 : a supernatural being or essence: such as

a capitalized : holy spirit

b : soul sense 2a

c : an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible specifically : ghost sense 2

d : a malevolent being that enters and possesses a human being



'Lack of belief' theory and 'agnostic-atheist' wasnt loony enough now we have 'theistic-atheists', talk about an oxymoron and contradiction in terms.

Clearly these people are hopelessly confused.

 

Yes and I'd argue in addition that religion is the result ie the conclusions one derives from spirituality. Distinctions between ethics and religion, are distinctions without a material difference.

The Relationship between Science and Spirituality

snippets:

When we look at this scenario – from the formation of oily droplets to the emergence of consciousness – the question naturally arises: what about the spiritual dimension of life? Is there any room for the human spirit in this new vision of prebiotic and biotic evolution?

To answer this question, it is useful to review the original meaning of the word ‘spirit’. The Latin spiritus means ‘breath’, which is also true for the related Latin word anima, the Greek psyche, and the Sanskrit atman. The common meaning of these key terms indicates that the original meaning of spirit in many ancient philosophical and religious traditions, in the West as well as in the East, is that of the breath of life.

Since respiration is indeed a central aspect of the metabolism of all but the simplest forms of life, the breath of life seems to be a perfect metaphor for the network of metabolic processes that is the defining characteristic of all living systems (Ibid., pp. 134ff.). Spirit – the breath of life – is what we have in common with all living beings. It nourishes us and keeps us alive.

Spirituality is usually understood as a way of being that flows from a certain profound experience of reality, which is known as ‘mystical’, ‘religious’, or ‘spiritual’ experience. There are numerous descriptions of this experience in the literature of the world’s religions, which tend to agree that it is a direct, non-intellectual experience of reality with some fundamental characteristics that are independent of cultural and historical contexts. Spirit – the breath of life – is what we have in common with all living beings.

Buddhists refer to this heightened mental alertness as ‘mindfulness’, and they emphasize, interestingly, that mindfulness is deeply rooted in the body. Spirituality, then, is always embodied. We experience our spirit, in the words of Brother David, as “the fullness of mind and body.”

It is evident that this notion of spirituality is very consistent with the notion of the embodied mind that is now being developed in cognitive science (see Varela et al., 1991). Spiritual experience is an experience of the aliveness of mind and body as a unity. Moreover, this experience of unity transcends not only the separation of mind and body but also the separation of self and world. The central awareness in these spiritual moments is a profound sense of oneness with all, a sense of belonging to the universe as a whole.

This sense of oneness with the natural world is fully borne out by the new systemic conception of life. we realize how tightly we are connected with the entire fabric of life.

Spiritual experience – the direct, non-intellectual experience of reality in moments of heightened aliveness – is known as a mystical experience because it is an encounter with mystery. Spiritual teachers throughout the ages have insisted that the experience of a profound sense of connectedness; of belonging to the cosmos as a whole, which is the central characteristic of mystical experience, is ineffable – incapable of being adequately expressed in words or concepts. A spiritual experience can give us a sense of connectedness with the cosmos.

There the eye goes not,
Speech goes not, nor the mind.
We know not, we understand not
How one would teach it.

Scientists, in their systematic observations of natural phenomena, do not consider their experience of reality as ineffable.

On the contrary, we attempt to express it in technical language, including mathematics, as precisely as possible. However, the fundamental interconnectedness of all phenomena is a dominant theme also in modern science, and many of our great scientists have expressed their sense of awe and wonder when faced with the mystery that lies beyond the limits of their theories. Albert Einstein, for one, repeatedly expressed these feelings, as in the following celebrated passage (Einstein, 1949).

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science… the mystery of the eternity of life, and the inkling of the marvellous structure of reality, together with the single-hearted endeavor to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the reason that manifests itself in nature.

While scientists try to explain natural phenomena, the purpose of a spiritual discipline is not to provide a description of the world. Its purpose, rather, is to facilitate experiences that will change a person’s self and way of life.

In these spiritual traditions – for example, in the various schools of Buddhism – the mystical experience is always primary; its descriptions and interpretations are considered secondary and tentative, insufficient to fully describe the spiritual experience. In a way, these descriptions are not unlike the limited and approximate models in science, which are always subject to further modifications and improvements.

However, most Christian theologians do want to speak about their experience of God, and to do so the Church Fathers used poetic language, symbols, and metaphors. The central error of fundamentalist theologians in subsequent centuries was, and is, to adopt a literal interpretation of these religious metaphors. [also see rahls atheist dogma] Once this is done, any dialogue between religion and science becomes frustrating and unproductive.

Religion involves not only the intellectual interpretation of spiritual experience but is also closely associated with morals and rituals. Morals, or ethics, are the rules of conduct derived from the sense of belonging that lies at the core of the spiritual experience, and ritual is the celebration of that belonging.

Both ethics and ritual develop within the context of a spiritual, or religious, community. According to David Steindl-Rast, ethical behavior is always related to the particular community to which we belong. When we belong to a community, we behave accordingly.

In today’s world, we belong to many different communities,
but we share two communities to which we all belong.
We are all members of humanity,
and we all belong to the global biosphere.

To conclude my brief discussion of religion, I would like to add a few words about rituals and the notion of the sacred. The original purpose of religious communities was to provide opportunities for their members to relive the mystical experiences of the religion’s founders. For this purpose, religious leaders designed special rituals within their historical and cultural contexts.

https://upliftconnect.com/science-and-spirituality/

 

You can in no way substantiate that claim.

 

One day you might learn how language works. One day. Words have multiple definitions. I think I learned that before junior high. Please learn. Chaining together sub-definitions in order to misrepresent the claims of others is ignorant and dishonest. It is never too late to change tracks and take the informed, honest approach, however.

No one is talking about 'theistic-atheists.' That's your own invention. You are the only one hopelessly confused.

Hint: should you decide to engage in some intellectually honest discussion regarding this topic, you wouldn't just pick up your favorite edition of your favorite dictionary, bold sections of your favorite sub-definitions, and then play make-believe that your artificial construction is what the OP or any other spiritual atheist was talking about.

The HONEST thing to do, if you were so confused regarding the meaning of the OP and others, would be to ask them what they mean instead of making **** up.

Frightening, I know.

 

~ I don't think that we " silence ourselves". Most of us will share our views with those we know and feel comfortable having these discussions. Certain subject are best left alone out of courtesy because most are not interested in personal details about others.

 

you are the one that used it as an evangelist platform so to answer that long winded diatribe so I quote rahl!

Before you respond, please dont forget (like you usually do) to make sure you pass out the secret neoatheist dictionary and the correct Dick Tracy decoder rings

So you claim to be an agno-atheist, and as I predicted neoatheists are so over the top soon they will be all three, atheo-agno-theists.

 

I have no idea how this stupidity addresses anything I said?

 

It doesnt, what you said addresses the stupidity posted the post I quoted.

That means that to your shock and dismay I agree with you on this one.

 

You might like this: https://sites.google.com/site/ilyashambatthought/logic-religion-and-spiritual-experience

 

I'm not fully clear on what this thread is about. In what sense do we silence ourselves? Isn't this forum an example of people not silencing themselves on the topics of religion and spirituality?

 

Complete and utter claptrap based entirely upon anecdotal drivel.

Much like the OP I did research into various religions and found them ALL wanting when it came to DELIVERING on what they promise. They only "work" if one is prepared to DECEIVE yourself.

Scientific studies have identified what is called the "spiritual state" and it is essentially just a means of allowing the brain to achieve a "resting" state. No deities are needed and some mammals appear to be able to do this naturally.

There is nothing mystical or supernatural about this meditative state of mind. It does lead to a certain degree of introspection which is a good thing because it allows one to "know yourself".

There is zero evidence for the existence of any deity but there is evidence that we can achieve a "spiritual state" of mind.

 

~ Magic mushrooms can help

 

Define “ spirituality”

 

Post the scientific studies.

 

Among other things but self delusion seems to be the opiate of the masses.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...o-brains-during-spiritual-experiences/361882/

https://qz.com/1292368/columbia-and-yale-scientists-just-found-the-spiritual-part-of-our-brains/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353590/

 

Ditto.

Typical, as you studied these religions from a purely material perspective, as if you were an academic.

Nonsense; science has already proved that the building blocks of the universe are made up of atoms, which are always in motion. This includes our thoughts, which are also energy, and thus interact with the outside world.

Only because you and others like you choose to perceive the universe from an exclusively physical and material standpoint.

I didn’t bring up the word “deity,” so I’m not sure what you’re on about.

 

Ditto for ALL of the above!

 

All they prove is that 'more' parts of the brain turn than in neoathesits brains.

It proves nothing else.