Iranian Father Beheads 14 year-old Daughter For Running Away With Boyfriend

Do you??

 

It’s a Islamic issue, not only an Iranian one. It’s cowardly BS where it happens.

Iran is still Iran, if they are not licking virus infected walls or attacking their own navy they are doing stupidity like this. And yet they want to be taken seriously on the world stage...

 

Absolutely hilarious. Kazen is the board's resident hater of police and the justice system. He primarily resides on the crime board, and invariably talks about the horrific injustice of sentencing. "Oh, it is not fair that this guy, who raped and murdered a 3 year-old is charged with both rape AND murder. How else is he supposed to have sex with an unwilling 3 year-old?

And now, here he is, pretending to travel the high road. The reality is, he is simply upset that parents would object to their 14 year-old daughter having relations with a 35 year-old.

 

being a parent is one of the greatest joys one can have. How anyone could harm their own child just boggles my mind.
No culture should condone it.

 

It's not so simple as a culture "condoning it or not condoning it".

Let me give you an example. In traditional American culture, if a man kills another man after he walked into the bedroom and unexpectedly found the man in bed with his wife, the society will view that as somewhat understandable, or at least view him with some sympathy. He still gets punished, but the punishment will likely be far less than an ordinary murder.

In the same way, that's probably sort of how the culture in muslim societies views these "honor killings". The girl made a terrible mistake and brought shame to the family. Therefore the father is "right" to feel extreme anger and blame her.

Whereas, in these muslim societies, if a man commits an ordinary murder, he will likely be executed, as you can see, in a case like this, the man might only be sentenced to several years in prison.

The message society is sending is "it is overall not okay, but it is sort of okay and understandable".

 

The man in this case will, as I have mentioned, faces a much stiffer sentence -- quite likely, capital punishment. This particular case falls outside of even traditional notions of 'mitigating circumstances' that otherwise affect how harshly or not a particular behavior is judged by a culture or society.

But to your main point, since you appear at least somewhat in interested in learning and education and not merely fanning prejudice (or so I hope), let me say the following:

1- protecting the "honor" of the family by resorting to violence against family members, or others, has deeper cultural roots in some societies than others. This concept, which was actually pretty strong among traditional Mediterranean cultures which had belonged to the Roman empire, is strongest in the Indian subcontinent (among both non-Muslim communities in India itself and Muslim communities in Pakistan).
2- in the Muslim world, outside of Pakistan, similar notions are prevalent among Sunni Arab communities. And, non-Arab, Sunni Muslim tribal communities such as the Kurds.
3- The reason the concept is not as strong among Shia communities, whether Persian or otherwise, is not because the Shia are or were more enlightened. These cultural norms have little to do with religion per se anyway and predate all these religions. Rather, the non-Persian Shia communities were simply too persecuted historically, their "honor" already besmirched more widely by the societies they lived in, for them to develop these concepts in the same manner.
4- Persian Shia culture, on the other hand, developed from the ethos or both the wider Shia culture that had struggled against persecution within the larger Muslim community, and the combination of pre-Islamic Iranian influences (which still lurk behind many of its traditions and holidays) and post-Islamic, medieval Iranian literature, philosophy and poetry which itself sought to combine these pre-Islamic Iranian ethos with Islamic influences to develop its own universalist ethos. In this regard, the primary influences on Iranian culture, whether Persian literature, poetry, historiography, and much more, was universalist and, even when nationalist, not about tribal values. This, in turn, was because the "Iranian nation" historically was born from several dominant empires (known in the West as the "Persian empires") which had both universalist (Zoroastrian) and nationalist (Iranian) ethos. This is in contrast with the other cultures around us, which were primarily tribal with tribal ethos. Indeed, the greatest influence of Iranian and Zoroastrian thoughts on the development on Judaism, Christianity and Islam, was to try to make each of these religions less tribal and more universalist in their conceptions of values and ethos.
5- All that said aside, and leaving the historical, culture and sociological aspects of the issue, the fact is that this particular case was very shocking in Iran. It even put Iran's most conservative elements, the ones most attached to the tribalist parts and ethos of the "Islam" you are familiar with, to re-think some of their opposition to long languishing reforms in various laws intended to stiffen some of the punishments you allude to.

Although I personally find fault with those elements in Iranian reformist circles who, instead of searching deeper in their own (truly rich) cultural repertoire and heritage to find their answers, often simply want to copy and mimic the same answers developed in the the West (and I don't think the West has the right answers, nor do I find what happens in the West culturally or otherwise all that inspiring as a model), there is no doubt that in any battle between the tribalist definition of Islam (in whatever sectarian covering) and the more universalist liberal ideologies of the West, I would side with the latter. But, at the same time, I know that is a false binary choice.

 

Most Honor killings are in the Arab or African Muslim countries, that fits the facts.

 

Lol ... only that her husband is still alive! Sorry dude ... I don't like it when someone starts spreading BS propaganda like you do now! What you write here is a lie! Wake up ... because your own direction confirmed my words publicly at the time, so please don't come up with any attempt to invent a new story!

 

Please don't waste my time. Her husband was murdered. That is not even in dispute by anyone. Her lawyer in Iran claimed her confession about her involvement was obtained through 'torture', which was baseless. But that doesn't change the fact that she was convicted of murder. And that all these stories, like the one below, are ultimately her lawyer trying to find ways to get her off and not based on anything more. Not the facts to anyone knowledgeable about Iran's legal system to have a clue.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/aug/12/sakineh-mohammadi-ashtiani-confesses-murder-iran
Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani 'confesses' to involvement in murder on Iran state TV

 

In your knowledge, Are Iran's gays suffering from honor killings or just Sexual background Persecution ?

 

Honor Killings? No. Discrimination: obviously. But the situation varies depending on where and in what socio-economic group they are being raised.

That said, claiming to be 'gay' in Iran was quite a fad a few years ago. It was a way for young men to claim an exemption available for gays fro serving in the military. Perhaps for that reason, while the general gay population is usually estimated to be around 2-4% of the larger population in most places, a poll taken by a government organization in Tehran showed 17% of the teenagers and young adults claiming they were homosexual! Most of them probably thinking about the exemption from military service I alluded to.

As a result, the Iranian military changed their regulations. You now have to not only claim to be homosexual, but "prove it" to their satisfaction by signing a statement confessing to engaging in same sex relations and answering details questions about it. The practice is intrusive, gay rights groups in Iran complain about it, but none could ever claim any of the thousands of Iranians who still get these exemptions have faced any prosecution. They can't because, despite the law on the issue for the uninitiated being draconian, in practice it is impossible to prosecute someone for sodomy in Iran even with a signed confession.

I have referred to this article from a gay rights advocacy group on this issue. It repeats some of the nonsense about punishments theoretically available, but if you read it carefully enough, you will see the real gripe is that the new procedures intrude on their privacy. In any case, these people getting the exemptions wouldn't be claiming if they imagined they would face any realistic danger of prosecution.
http://6rang.org/english/2261
Confessing to having same-sex relations is the new norm for military service exemptions in Iran

 

Discrimination such as stoning ?

 

That is nonsense. Not even remotely true. In practice, no criminal punishment in fact. I have said that to you already, so please do engage in your Iransplaining with someone else. I am done with you.

 

This report according to the Swedish organization GAPF - Glöm Aldrig Pela och Fadime (Never Forget Pela and Fadime)

"It is estimated that there are five honour killings in Sweden per year, but that figure is most likely under-evaluated as many cases are classified as suicide or accidents due to lack of evidence. In Sweden, we have had at least 10 so-called 'balcony girls' who have been classified as suicides. Tossed/fell/jumped off the balcony, that is to say."

"According to the UN, up to 5,000 honour killings occur every year in the world, but that figure is certainly incorrect as 1,000 cases of honour killings are documented annually in Pakistan alone."

https://gapf.se/rapporter-och-statistik/

 

A whole lot of that to be found, particularly in the minds of residents between New York and California.

Most nations have similar "exemptions".

Pure logic.

 

True, but unfortunately, the propaganda Iran faces is even more widespread and covers more geography than that. Even the most indisputable facts about legal cases in Iran are disputed by people who have no clue, have no basis to claim to have a clue, with the same in fervor as people argue about scripture!! I used to think it was a simple case of not knowing any better. Now, I don't think that anymore since I have put A LOT of effort to not only better acquaint people with the facts about Iran, but to spoon feed them all the links and references they would need if they simply tried to think a bit outside the propaganda they have been hearing. But, ultimately, to no avail.

 

True picture.

 

I know.

I honestly thought you were smarter than that. The problem is not what they "don't know", it is what they "know" based upon disinformation, misinformation, and ... wait for it .... censorship. So THE ONLY INFORMATION they have is what the government (read CIA) has told them. That's all. Nothing else. From their point of view "they know the truth" therefore what you have to say to the contrary is false, lies, and propaganda concocted by the government of Iran. So, not knowing any better is not an accurate assessment of the average American's understanding. I realize they are fond of embellishing their false judgment but what they have been told is the fundamental problem and it is deeply embedded within decades of false information about Iran starting from the time of Moseddeq until 1953 .... and then again from 1979 until the present day.

Yes, that is correct.

 

Why not? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Do you agree?

 

I never heard the American parlament members shouting "Death to Iran" ... Have you ?
Is it common in Iran to shout Death to other countries ?
Would you like to Nuke them ?

 

Claiming yes, shouting no.

Only to those deserving it.

Be specific: Iran or the U.S.?

 

Why does Iran have to follow your exact rituals and vocabulary to say what is said about Iran in the US, by US officials, every day?

To be sure, it is not unheard of for American senators and Congressmen to say these kind of things about Iran. Not at all. But they do most of their 'talking' by the laws and sanctions they have been enacting against Iran, even if they sometimes can be found singing to this tune:





Maybe, the US should treat Iran's chants the way Iran treats US chants such as this one:

Which 2 days later was followed by this:

 

My mistake ... yes, she was accused to have killed her husband too ... but does not change the fact that she was sentenced to death by stoning ... and this is, sorry, barbaric!
So don't waste my time about that stoning and other evil Sharia punishments are only in theory existing ... and also: You forgot these 2 Kurdish women, eh? No comment about?

 

She was not sentenced to death by stoning, despite all the false reports you read about it. I know it was misreported that way by her lawyers to garner sympathy for her case, to be able to bring pressure to bear on the victims family to pardon her so she would not face capital punishment (Qisas). Ultimately, the victims family pardoned her after blood money was raised, so she no longer faced Qisas and, instead, was convicted to serve the maximum statutory punishment for murder (10 years) in prison. She didn't even serve the full sentence: long after everyone else had forgotten about her case, in 2014, she was released from prison for 'good behavior' while serving her term under normal practice and procedure in Iran.

I don't know about the case of the "Kurds" you are talking about, but do know Iran's legal system and how it works and how it doesn't. The reports you read about Iran aren't accurate: they are mainly from one side (the defense lawyers), many of them with financial and other ties to groups which have their own ties to those representing people who seek to become 'refugees' in Europe and N. America and, occasionally to foreign governments who want to use them for their purposes. And, then, they are peppered with the kind of headlines and propaganda that sells to western audiences.

Now, to understand the actual system in Iran, and its laws, requires a familiarity that is hard to impart on a message board, especially to someone who doesn't want to learn. And you aren't going to get it reading one provision in isolation, especially since Iranian law cannot repeal injunctions from the Koran but has had to devise different ways to have those conventions fit the realities of modern day Iranian society.

For now, let me just say this as quickly as I can: a final verdict or sentence in Iran is not the verdict issued by any investigative or magistrate judge. The latter is basically the prosecution case, albeit taking into account the evidence presented also by the defense, in Iran's inquisitorial system. That verdict is then automatically sent to become final to another court, where the defense gets to question its findings and such, before it becomes "final". And no final verdict in Iran has ever upheld any punishment for stoning. In capital cases, where appeal to the Supreme Court is by right, and all such cases are reported, there will not be (and has never been) a case reported to uphold any such sentence. Such sentences, in fact, were banned by judicial directive and (while the law in Iran cannot explicitly and directly 'amend' the Koran), reforms of the law have even tried to take this punishment outside even the 'theoretical realm' it belonged to in the past. To explain all this would require that I give you a long disposition on Iran's judicial system and laws, so you either accept this from me, or read the reports that you seen to enjoy reading more.