I don't understand why schools don't lock the doors

kids need access to the smoking area, and it is more fun to make out outside or in a car. make all the rules you want, kids will break them.

 

I'm not shouting, but I would appreciate some supporting documentation of whatever you mean by your statements that 1) "many" women are what has now been termed "bipolar"-- it was my belief that this was just a newer term for "manic-depressive," which I don't think could be said to 2) used to be regarded as relatively normal. Nor was I aware that it had become any more common, and particularly among women, if that was what you meant to suggest in your opening, "it's long been been common knowledge in society that many women are..." But I don't think that is what you had been saying. Rather, I take you to be suggesting, historically, that it has been "common knowledge," that many women are this way. This would be medically incorrect, and nothing more than a the repeating of an almost ancient, and insulting, chauvinistically belittling view of women, as being prone to "hysteria." There are numerous reasons for this, from the expectations men had of women, to the stress women endured trying to live within the tight constraints which society placed upon them. In most cases, this was not true manic- depression.

Again, I would just like you to be less vague about what exactly you are saying and, ideally, to actually offer some shred of evidence for the things you state as well- known facts.

 

He said that his school had automatically locking doors that could be opened with push bars from inside. The Uvalde school had this feature.

They don't. This particular lunatic entered through a door that a teacher had propped open. Security measures are ineffective when people interfere with them.

 

So you didn’t understand it, then.
Doors that are locked ONLY from the outside and be, wait for it, opened from the inside. This means anyone who is inside can get out whenever they want.

 

Hysteria was what they called menopause until science figured out that it’s a natural process that all women go through. If you’ve lived with a woman going through menopause, you know why they thought women were hysterical.

Yeah, not related to bipolar disorder.

 

This is the price we pay for cutting Mental Health care.

The Effects of Budget Cuts on the Public’s Mental Health
By all indications, the United States public mental health system is in shambles. Studies have shown that one in every four Americans, or 57.7 million people, meet the diagnostic criteria for a mental illness every year. This makes the U.S. number one as far as the rate of mental illness among its citizens.
https://www.projectcensored.org/the-effects-of-budget-cuts-on-the-publics-mental-health/

It's the price of the NRA focusing on Politics instead of Firearms Safety and Competency.
The NRA’s Gun Safety Program for Kids Has Imploded
What happened to the NRA, and what will become of it now?
Of all the single-issue interests that have shaped US politics in the last few decades, the matter of guns is as powerful as any. Since the late 20th century, only abortion and immigration have been as consistently contentious, divisive and difficult to legislate around – but neither has been as influenced by a single institution as the gun issue has by the National Rifle Association (NRA).

When I was a kid the NRA stood for gun safety and training that "was" their mission, but they found out there's more money in being political, and have, IMHO, totally lost their way.

To the OP's point, a teacher blocked the door, the shooter gained access through, open.

 

Right. Like a shed.

 

Ah. So, has this been the case for all the shootings in the last few years?

The conversation seems to be thoughts n prayers versus ban all guns. This is a pointless exercise. We need to get back to meaningful discussions.

 

Obviously not and I suggested nothing like that.

That is your opinion. Here is mine.

Laws are a framework for punishing criminal acts. They don't prevent criminal acts. You know that. We need to prevent school shootings. Activities after the fact aren't the answer.

Guns don't commit murder. People do. We should work on human behaviors rather than the abundant inanimate tools. Being angry at guns is silly. Being angry at killers is sensible.

Almost all school shooters are young people who are sociopaths. 60% of them announce their intention to carry out a school shooting on social media. We do nothing about it. What do we need to do? Obviously we need to remove sociopathic young people from society and provide them psychiatric care until they mature and can return to society. No exceptions. We used to do that. We didn't have school shootings then either.

I believe social media are the motivator for school shooters and they are also the major tool for locating them. There is no point in locating them if we aren't going to do anything about them. The Uvalde shooter was typical. A young sociopath with a broken past who announced his intention to shoot up a school on social media. How much common sense do we need to ignore all that. None, of course. Only stupidity ignores that. Ignoring the existence of young sociopaths in our society doesn't do any favors to the sociopaths either. This kid killed a score of people and lost his own life in the process. We are doing it all wrong.

No need to repeat your opinion. Feel free to debate mine, though, if you like.

 

That's naive and just not true.

But the NRA and Gun Lobbies have stymied every effort to deal with the people aspect of gun violence.

IF, and I agree, we need to be more proactive, how does that happen if we don't legislate and fund it?

It's hard to do anything about "them" if there is no mechanisms and funding for them in play.

I was raised to respect ... respect people ... AND ... most vehemently, adamantly and incessantly ... respect firearms. WE don't do enough of that anymore. The NRA started out as a gun safety and training organization; it has completely abdicated that mission, AND, nothing or no one has stepped up to fill that void.

 

An opinion I don't share, obvisously. Is there a reason for this opinion.

I don't think so. They have only stymied gun legislation which, as we know, doesn't prevent crime.

It doesn't. We need to redirect efforts in a direction that will work and get behind it in every possible way.

Yes.

The NRA is still involved in firearm safety and training. And yes they have added lobbying to the mission.

 

I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this, but I think they ARE closed from the inside. In the case of Uvalde, I believe I heard the sheriff say a teacher inadvertently left a door open. I don't know why that door didn't close automatically, though.

Yes... making sure the doors are closed an re-enforced is a good thing. However, there are windows, there are fences, there are mistakes, ... there are many things that a shooter could do to gain entrance.

Besides the fact that not all shootings are in schools.

So a more effective solution is to bitch about guns.

 

There's whole branches of "The Law" that have nothing to do with criminal law.

I disagree and as an example: way back in the 70's some jackass hunter from Texas came up here and shot two kids off are RED motorcycle. My State legislated a requirement that hunters MUST take and pass a hunter safety class BEFORE they could purchase a hunting license. Firearm related Hunting accident's fell dramatically.
For starters, I think it would be worth a try to pass a law that before you can buy a firearm you have to take a firearms safety/competency class. I think the scope of background checks should go beyond making sure the buyer isn't a felon and include a look a mental stability and any propensity to violence. There is no potential criminality involved, just a small hurdle to clear before you can buy a firearm. I doubt, knowing what we know now, the founders would have a problem with those laws.

I've just suggested a couple common sense measures to try.

We can't go on throwing our hands in the air saying we have enough laws and they aren't working so more law won't help.

Not that you'd notice, certainly not like it was when I was a youngster.

In spades, to the point it obfuscates any and everything else they do.

Look at Alf's picture above; that is the alternative.

And doesn't address public spaces like Church or Malls ... Downtown.

 

I was oversimplifying, clearly, but it doesn't seem to me that anyone with the power to change things is doing anything about it.

Facebook clearly has the tools to flag posts with objectionable material. They should filter "I'm off to shoot grandma," to the list of the types of flags that get posted, and alert authorities.

We are 100% in agreement about these kids. Mental health is a gigantic issue in this country. Access to psychiatrists is out of reach for many, and even if not, is so stigmatized that nobody wants to admit their kid may be a sociopath in need of help.

I just really don't understand why we can't just keep locking school doors the way they did in the 70's, and still do today in every school I've ever been in. I also don't understand in this environment, how a teacher can be so unaware, that they'd leave the door wide open.

BTW - my suggestion that we lock the doors as we've mostly always done, isn't an activity after the fact. It's an activity that should reduce these incidents in the future.

 

I've definitely been on high school campuses that had the open feeling with several buildings. Never a grammar school, though. I don't think good should be the enemy of perfect. Sure, we can't prevent all crimes. I'm not suggesting we even try. I'm suggesting that we use existing tools to keep as many loons out of grammar schools as we can. We're talking about pre-teens, here. Children.

 

Because the teacher placed an object in the door jam to prevent the door from closing. I hope when everyone is done screaming for gun laws, those in charge prohibit propping open security doors at schools.

 

Probably because a student is magnitudes more likely to be killed in a fire than shot by a mass shooter.

 

And what, they are stupid to given, carry and use a key

 

Of course. Is there a related point?

Your example was not an accident as I take it. There is nothing wrong with gun safety training.

For the umpteeth time, laws don't prevent school shootings or any other shootings. Why do you fail to support actions that might prevent shootings?

I agree that firearm safety training for hunting licenses is good. Unfortunately it doesn't apply to school shootings. We've had federal gun laws since 1967. Yet school shootings are more recent phenomenon and increasing rather than declining. No, laws won't help. We already know that.

One definition of stupidity is continuing to re-apply the same actions in the hope that the results will be different.

When we were youngsters the National Firearms Act hadn't yet passed. There wasn't anything to lobby about

Probably true for you. It is clear to me and I support most of what they lobby about.

You mean the picture of a prison pretending to be a school? The better alternative is to take young sociopaths out of society and get them psychiatric help.

Removing young sociopaths from society will decrease shootings everywhere.

 

I went to a large school with thousands of other students outside a major metro area (Indianapolis) through the 90s and none of the exterior doors were ever locked, we never had any 'active shooter' drills and there was no armed security ...and there were never any shootings there and still havnt been (though I would guess they prolly try to keep the doors locked now).

I think most places just figure 'it wont happen here,' and to be fair, so far the vast majority of them are right.

 

Well, since the last school fire that killed ten or more people happened in 1954, I think this statement needs some fine tuning.

 

Oh, and most teachers - well, I dunno about that, maybe SOME teachers - go thru ALICE training to deal with possible situations such as this? If you're curious about what ALICE is, look HERE.

 

And because locked school doors, and any such doors in public places can always be unlocked from the inside by simply pushing it open. Generally required by building codes and fire department regulations.