Why are we, as conservatives, so against immigration reform?

It helps if you pay attention to the arguments presented on a slightly more longitudinal basis than you currently are. That concept has been explained more than thrice, and some people sometimes object if I have to repeat myself, even up to several hundred times.

A market friendly work visa could solve our illegal problem on a permanent basis via Commerce, that is well regulated among the several States of the Union; especially if it follows an already proven business model that does credit to S&P CEO wage ratios? Do you have enough faith in Capitalism, in that case?

 

We've been lied to in the past. Consequently, we don't believe a word immigration reform advocates say. That's what happens to liars.

 

All I am suggesting is that we insist that our elected representatives bear true witness to our own laws, simply for the sake of morals and that form of moral absolutism.

 

It would be unfair to those Americans without jobs to be giving those jobs to foreigners with or without work visa's. America jobs for Americans first, then if there are any left bring out the work visas.

 

As to the OP, the reason conservatives are against immigration reform, is because they want the cheap labor pool to supplement the excess of the wealthy right wing.

 

Of course. That is common sense. I sense that danielpalos is an employer of cheap foreign labor and would like work visas increased so HE could take advantage of that, and is disguising his true motives by pretending that the main problem is immigration being illegal.

The problem is ALL immigration, which should be stopped immediately, with the exception of entrepreneurs bring large amounts of capital with which to open businesses and create jobs for AMERICANS, at good wages. Another exception might be immigrants bringing rare skills that we are in need of. Other than that, any immigration right now is preposterous.

 

First on this forum you will see the righties blast Obama for supporting the dream act which was Immigration reform. What they don't seem to realize is that the Dream Act was a Reublican idea brught forth by John McCain and Oren Hatch. When Obama came along an said " I support that" , The republicans did a 180 and became opponents of their own bill . This was because if Obama was for something , they were against it, even their own ideas. The same thing happened in the Debt Ceil;ing debate. Hence... Obama saying " they just won't take yes for an answer" Back to Immigration.... Most people don't have a clue as to what is going on here. Its hard to understand why on one hand both parties complain about illegials, neither seems willing to do anything about it, WHY??? MONEY..... I read posts from people saying illegals were collecting more in Tax Refunds (Earned Income Tax Credit) than they were paying in. This is not true. For a small minority maybe, BUT..... For most illegals, they don't have a valid Social Security number. They make one up or use a fake one. They claim enough dependents so there is not a lot of withholding taken out. BUT... They pay the S.S. (payroll) taxes , come the end of the year they don't file because thy have a fake # an can never collect onth social security because they don't have a valid card. they forfeit any witholding paid in. So they are really proping up social security. this is just to simple for most people to believe. Most would like to think that there is some complicated politcal reason for all this.

 

REFORM= Amnesty or Amnesty lite.

 

What is even more unfair, is simply bearing false witness to our own laws, while claiming morals to be elected to "rule over us."

 

You have a definite communication problem. You're not good at getting your points across without leaving people saying "Who, Hah, Wha" ? LOL.

 

Many conservative businessmen and CEOs have something to say..

The brightest and the best come from all over the world for graduate school in the US.. As soon as they graduate we are deprived of their talent so they return to India or wherever and start companies that employ thousands.

And then there is the need for farm workers.. God knows, Georgia and Alabama took losses of several billion dollars this past season.

There should probably be some reform that would allow them extended visas.. so they could pay taxes but not be citizens.. Congress is just terminally lazy.

 

Why do you believe that?

In my opinion, such a belief only underscores a lack of faith in Capitalism and the implication that US labor cannot compete in a global economy.

Simply solving for a natural unemployment rate could also solve for that problem as well.

 

I am referring to actually solving our illegal problem instead of merely waging a more nationalized and socialized, war on illegals through arbitrarily exercised forms of central planning and command economics.

 

I would like for our elected representatives to not have to feel guilty about a cushy part time job with decent benefits; why not simply expect our elected representatives to do a good job, just like we would normally do in the private sector?

 

Well.. I don't see why they are so bloody lazy.. They can't make any practical changes to immigration reform without squawking about "amnesty".. and they can't get to any tax reform that would create incentives to repatriate US profits abroad.

 

Both of which you describe here are outsourcing. Ie. the use of foreigh cheap labor to boost profits by reducing labor costs.

1. In the case of international outsourcing, American companies close down their US operations and move everything overseas.

2. In the case of domestic outsourcing (AKA immigration), this applies to that part of the labor sector wherin the jobs can only be done INSIDE the USA (landscaping, construction, janitorial, etc), and so the cheap labor is brought here (and very willingly sent by other countries who reap big buck$$$ from it).

Politically, the Republicans represent the greed freak profiteers and therefore support both 1 and 2. The Democrats don't care about the greed boys, but they fall all over themselves trying to appeal to anyone of any kind of minority group to get their VOTES. They even abandon their traditional representation of the American working class, including the unemployed, to do it. (by supporting immigration, affirmative action, Islamization, etc - anything to get votes).

The whole stinking mess may never be solved, for the good of the American people.

 

I'm not sure if I believe these stories about farms losing money. Seems quite a stretch to say that, with millions of people unemployed, they couldn't find Americans to fill jobs ? Doesn't make sense. I think the farmers are BSing us, to try to win favors for their policy of hiring immigrants legal or not.
As for the visas, it's crazy to be giving visas to foreigners to fill jobs in America, when we have millions of Americans without a job. They should hire those unemployed Americans. Where I live, unemployed people are scooping up jobs of all kinds even at minimum wage, just because there isn't anything better around right now. Citizenship isn't the problem. Foreign labor swiping American jobs away is. If you lost a job to a foreign worker, you've lost that job whether he's a citizen or not. Not to mention a dozen other harms to Americans by the introduction of millions of foreigners into the country.

 

Why don't we just enforce the immigration laws already on the books?

That would toss every illegal using false or stolen SSA information to obtain a job.

 

Maybe they just need more practice micromanaging our tax codes and practicing that form of work ethic.

 

How does that actually solve the problem without denying and disparaging individual liberty?

 

Because the term conservative no longer has meaning to those who are not brainwashed. Anyone who could bring up immigration as a problem when it is another race which holds ALL RECORDS IN NEGATIVE STATISTICS and such is NEVER MENTIONED in any meaningful way in the controlled media , needs to COME INTO THE ROOM.

 

I'm opposed to it because its the death of my race and our country.

- - - Updated - - -

Because republicans are whores controlled by business and the left don't want to discriminate against democratic voters.

 

If I thought that would end the illegal problem I might agree. But I don't see it doing that. It only tells others if I can sneak in, keep a low profile, I can jump on the next citizenship train a few years down the road. It will only cause millions more to cross our porous boarder, which I don't believe we will ever make a (long term effort) to secure it. We did it with Reagan and it only brought in four times as many as we had then. My idea would allow them to stay and work under the Federal work laws. That way they could make at least a min wage and not undercut Americans looking for work. Allow them to come and go with no worry of being deported unless they screw up. It would allow us to finally know just who is here and deport anyone who is not registered. All companies would have to use E- Verify and punished for hiring known illegals.There would no longer be an incentive to sneak across our border as they would not be able to work or have a chance for citizenship. Companies that need help and can't get Americans to do it would have to show they attempted to fill the job and got no takers. The government could keep a list of immigrants willing to come in and work these jobs and supply them with a work visa that would last a certain number of years. We would no longer have an illegal problem.

They would be happy they can work out in the open. The American Hispanic community would be happy they no longer have to worry about friends and family being deported. Everyone's needs are filled and both Democrats and Republicans could claim credit without either having an advantage over the other.

Lets not forget, we were promised that never again would the government come up with a bill to allow citizenship to illegals. I expect to hold them to that promise.

 

What a crock.
Why don't you supply some links supporting your "claims".

You don't even have a clue what you are talking about.
As individual conservatives, yes, you are opposed to imigration, legal or not.
The GOP however (or the NWO Neo-cons running it now) are highly in favor of BOTH legal and illegal immigration.
What better way to depress wages than to ensure an abundant supply of workers.

The duplicity of the GOP and "conservatives" in general never fails to amaze me.

 

This sums it up pretty well.