Turkey’s New Maps Are Reclaiming the Ottoman Empire

Everyday it's another advance by Erdogan. He has locked the Aegean for war games, even though much of the waters are Greek. ..something which has not occurred since the Turkish invasion of Cyprus.

If anyone doubts Erdogan's intent, they should read these excerpts from his latest speech:

"We will defend and protect our compatriots in Greece" (meaning the Turks in Thrace).

"Whatever happens in the region has a direct relationship with Turkey. We will never turn our backs when our compatriots in Bulgaria, Greece, Skopje, our brothers in Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo are facing difficulties."

"Our brothers (Sunni descendants of the Turks) who are from Europe to Africa and from the Mediterranean up to the endless steppes of Central Asia are at the border of our hearts. For us, the Balkans are a part of our hearts and the Caucasus the other part."

"The hostility towards foreigners in Europe is growing and we are the first to react. Why; Because 5 million live there that have their roots in Turkey."

"We must also add our brothers from Turkistan, Afghanistan and Central Asia who settled in Europe. It is our moral obligation to defend their rights and find solutions to their problems."​

 

Well OK - I'll Lech-chaaa remain Anonymous.
That sewer was quite an edumachation in the art of the Low Blow wher-ent IT ?

After they banned Matt & drove the Vader off, & the Cascade, the Coaster & Myself
seemed to tire of the Crap - there just didn't seem to be any reason to stick around

Just no fun beating up on cripples
.

 

Our wonderful ally is going to pull a Putin and annex territory from neighboring countries? Betcha Madam President will stay mum about that Syria is everyone's for the plundering now

 

Splatt's been banned, unbanned and banned again He's out now for being a pest. Not sure if and when he'll be back in. Crashcade rarely posts, same with Coaster (though he has been just lately).

They're having fun with vladzo, though. He got booted from Pervda and joined up there

 

My old roommate's family is from Greece and go back and forth often. Their stories of what Turkey does is pretty bad, the next few decades are going to be pretty darn interesting.

 

You know as well as I do that countries, governments and media are inconsistent about this - the Russians are no different.

However, when we look at this I think we have to consider the fact that Russian aggression has been a problem for the West in recent years while Turkish aggression has not. When was the last time the Turks posed a threat to the West - when Eugene of Savoy was destroying the Ottoman army at Zenta?

Let's also remember that the Turks were are allies during the Cold War, and most Americans don't know squat about Turkey. I'd be willing to bet that 99.99% of Americans don't have the slightest clue that Turkey's most influential opposition leader is living in the Poconos. Heck, they couldn't tell you who he is, either.

For what it's worth, I share your low opinion of Erdoğan - not only is he a thug, he's a duplicitous thug who can't be trusted. To make matters worse, he's an Islamist, and as a rule I don't care for theocrats of any stripe. If I had my way, my secularist friends in Turkey would be running that country, but that's not up to me to decide.

 

I just sent you a PM.

I did like the no-holds-barred action, but me and Neme(*)(*)(*)(*) didn't get along at all. She was a perfectly horrible excuse for a human being if I ever met one.

I think she used to foul this forum with her presence at one time, but that was some time ago. Good riddance to bad rubbish...

Nope, there's no sport in that, and my momma would smack me if she caught me picking on moral and intellectual pygmies.

From what you and Durandal are saying I guess I won't be venturing back. The last time I went over there the forum home page was re-directing to some porn site.

 

You got a link to that, Jenny?

Ironically - assuming it's accurate - he sounds just like Putin.

Before you know it Erdoğan will be passing out Turkish passports in Greece and the Balkans...

 

Putin was giving passports to the Russians living in Crimea because they asked for them. And I have news for you. After the fascist coup and the pogrom with its killings by the Right Sector on the Crimean protesters who supported Yanukovich, it was not just the Russians who wanted those passports, the Greeks in Crimea were begging for them also.

As for Turkey, their population in Cyprus was 11% and they occupied and ethnically cleansed the Greeks from 1/3 of the island (thanks to Kissinger's support)... and brought in Turks from the mainland to occupy their homes. There are 10,000 Turkish tanks and 40,000 thousand troops sitting on the island waiting for an opportune time to ethnically cleanse the rest of the island.

So tell me now what lands has Russia occupied?

 

Other than an incident where Turkey tried to stop a research vessel in Greek waters south of the island of Kastelorizo with claims it was Turkish waters and they needed permission from the Turkish authorities, and the advance of a Greek frigate to protect it and a few anxious hours with jets, we have these calming words from Erdogan:

Erdogan stressed that Turkey "can not turn its back on Aleppo. Turkey can not ignore our relatives in Western Thrace, Cyprus, Crimea and elsewhere. We can not leave Libya, Egypt, Bosnia and Afghanistan alone with their problems. Otherwise, we would feel ashamed before both our history and before our brothers living there, whose hearts beat together with ours."​

And here's Erdogan's latest map of Greater Turkey. This time they excluded Cyprus.

 

I assume Erdogan excluded Cyprus in his map of a greater Turkey, so as not to destroy the current relationship between Turkey and Russia:

Mr. Lavrov made the following statement at a press conference with Cypriot Foreign Minister Ioannis Kasoulides. It was in reference to the impositions of the US and UN in forcing a solution on Cyprus without taking the will of the people into account.

"We communicate regularly on different levels and this shows that our political dialogue is based on trust and on a special character. Last year we celebrated 55 years since the establishment of our diplomatic relations and in all these years we have emphasized that cooperation and the development of bilateral relations does not depend on the political environment."

There should be no artificial deadlines for the Cyprus solution said Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. He stressed that the US and UN should not impose their own vision for a solution on the people of Cyprus.

Mr. Kasoulides said "that Russia's attitude is similar to ours that the system of guarantees (by Britain, Turkey and Greece) should be repealed and all foreign troops (British and the 40,000 Turkish troops) should withdraw from Cyprus'.​

 

We could see a flash point within the next seven days.......don't discount anything with the Clinton Crime Machine.

They are that desperate.....

 

In other words, we're no different than the Russians. We pick and choose which forms of aggression to highlight or ignore based, not on principle, but on pure self-interest.

But I don't see any Russian aggression. All I see is a hysterical, anti-Russian narrative being disseminated by the imperialist governments of the west and their corporate media cronies.

They pose a threat to the west right now. They are helping AQ/ISIS spread into Syria and they shot down a Russian fighter jet.

Most Americans don't know squat about Russia, Ukraine, or Crimea either, except for what they hear in the Russia-hating media.

 

For the most part, I think that's a fair statement that applies to all those institutions regardless of where they are located. I think the same can be said for a lot of international organizations (ex., the United Nations) and NGOs (ex., Amnesty International), as well. If self-interest isn't the culprit then something similar, such as ideology, is responsible.

I don't know how you can overlook Russia's aggression in Georgia and Ukraine or the reckless behavior of its air force in recent years, but I agree that the LW MSM has been whipping up a lot of anti-Russian hysteria lately to distract from Hillary Clinton's criminal and unethical activity.

I was talking about direct military threats, and I don't see how shooting down a Russian jet fighter constitutes a threat to the West. If I recall correctly, the Russians had repeatedly violated Turkish air space prior to that incident and were warned to stop it.

That's probably true, and judging from the Russian internet trolls who spam Internet forums such as this one with their anti-American xenophobia and war mongering, it appears that the same could be said for most Russians and their media. I would add that it's probably a good thing most Americans are blissfully unaware of what's spewing out of the Kremlin's propaganda bullhorns.

 

Except we're supposed to be different, or so I'm told.

Because I don't believe their actions in either case constitute aggression. In Georgia, Sakaashvilli launched a surprise attack on Ossetia and Russian troops reacted to it. And in Ukraine, the democratically elected president was overthrown by a militant faction of ultra nationalists, which threw the country into chaos and dissolution. Again, Russian's intervention was merely a reaction, not an initiation. But let's assume for the sake of argument it was "aggression" on Russia's part, how does that constitute a threat to "the west"? Are we to assume that a few skirmishes on Russia's borders pose an existential threat to Western Europe or North America? Really?

AQ/ISIS are not direct military threats?

Turkey's membership in NATO has the potential to entangle us in their conflicts.

Turkey violates its neighbors air space all the time. Maybe it's time someone started shooting their planes out of the sky.

In any case, a former NORAD commander characterized Turkey's actions as "overly aggressive" and a "mistake": LINK

One doesn't need to listen to any Russian propaganda in order to question the prevailing narratives being disseminated by the US government. Healthy and robust skepticism of their narratives goes back to Patrick Henry and Sam Adams.

 

Turks again??? Oh,hello,greetings from Serbia and Karadjordje ...If not Germans,we have invasion of the turks...they just dont tired of expansions(sorry Englishman and cowboys,i forget about you )

 

I'm confident you find that as laughable as I do. We've never been any different.

I've heard that story, too, and I've always been mystified at how so many people came to believe it.

And then there's the matter of the Russian military's notoriously bad logistics. There's only one way the 58th Army would have been ready to fly through the Roki Tunnel on a moment's notice:

And we've already been over how Putin started setting up his revanchist adventure in Ukraine the same year Russia invaded Georgia.

We assumed that Russia would keep its commitments in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum and it didn't. Between the invasion of Georgia, annexation of Ukrainian territory and the
the discussions in some circles regarding the legitimacy of the independence of the Baltic states, who can tell where Putin's neo-imperialistic revanchism will end?

Russia doesn't need to pose an existential threat to the U.S. and Western Europe to pose a threat to the U.S. and Western Europe. For example, the aforementioned Baltic states are members of NATO. Russia has other ways of threatening European nations given their dependence on Russian energy resources, most notably natural gas. Fortunately, the U.S. doesn't rely on Russia for energy, and hopefully our newfound ability to produce more energy domestically can offset any supply and price problems that develop overseas.

They're not the Turkish military.

True, but NATO's obligations are limited, and I don't see Russia invading Turkey.

Perhaps, they should.

I'm inclined to agree with him, but that's easy for me to say - we're not talking about American air space here.

This is true.

It goes back even further than that. Jonathan Mayhew was debunking the "divine right" of kings long before Adams and Henry began their illustrious careers...

A Discourse concerning Unlimited Submission and Non-Resistance to the Higher Powers: With some Reflections on the Resistance made to King Charles I. And on the Anniversary of his Death: In which the Mysterious Doctrine of that Prince's Saintship and Martyrdom is Unriddled (1750)
by Jonathan Mayhew
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1044&context=etas

Or to make a long sermon short, "resistance to tyrants is obedience to God"...

 

Just a bunch of propaganda by those who know nothing but lies and propaganda. Here's reality from Spiegel:

The truth about the war between Russia and Georgia over the breakaway republic of South Ossetia in August 2008 sounds somewhat convoluted, at least as expressed in the final report of the independent EU fact-finding mission charged with establishing the causes of the conflict. "Georgian claims of a large-scale presence of Russian armed forces in South Ossetia prior to the Georgian offensive on 7/8 August could not be substantiated by the mission," reads the document, which was published Wednesday. To put it more simply: It was Georgia who started the war.

This is the conclusion that the team of European investigators, headed by the Swiss diplomat and Caucasus expert Heidi Tagliavini, have reached after spending almost a year visiting the Georgian capital Tbilisi, Moscow and the locations of the fighting in a bid to reconstruct the course of the conflict. Their findings fill some 1,000 pages.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ators-debunk-saakashvili-s-lies-a-652512.html​

As for your stupidities about Ukraine the people in Donbas were told by Yanokovich who was still the legitimate president to vote to federate within Ukraine because Russia will not accept them into the Russian Federation. Right after the refrendum was held Poroshenko instead of talking to the people, he began bombing them.

Had Russia invaded they would have been in Kiev in three days and tens of thousands of lives would have been saved, but they didn't:

Donetsk

[video=youtube;HJZqrv8E0hg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJZqrv8E0hg[/video]

Lugansk

[video=youtube;wxJdbnzVelU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxJdbnzVelU[/video]

Donetsk

[video=youtube;5SqtKTcHAMM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SqtKTcHAMM[/video]

Slaviansk

[video=youtube;ajItsE3Uq1Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajItsE3Uq1Y[/video]

 

Heh. Now you're taking the word of Western governments and media as gospel. Shall we mark this on our cndars?

I don't think you know who Michael Totten is nor do I think you read his article and how he came to his conclusions, but why would a pro-Russian propagandist bother with knowing these things?

"There are no Russian troops in Ukraine!"

And Putin wasn't handing out passports in that country in 2008, either. That's a "stupidity", not a fact...
.

 

If I wanted to I could acquire a Greek/EU passport because my father was Greek. The people of Crimea wanted a Russian passport the same way the Jews in Ukraine have Israeli and Ukrainian passports. So stop trying to influence people with the ridiculous. The People in Crimea and Western and Southern Ukraine spoke Russia, went to schools in Russia and married Russians. In other words they were Russians as much as they were Ukrainians.

 

Now back to the topic. According to Greekpronews, It seems Turkey is now implementing its new policy of the Lausanne Treaty being null and void, and is building an airport in the El-Rai area in Syria for its fighter aircraft and helicopters. This will change the geo strategic balance in the area. Turkey also has a base in Qatar and another in Somalia so as to control the Horn of Africa ...

In the meantime the Turkish forces have created a large ring around Mosul. There are also two Turkish Mechanized Brigades ready to move to the border of Iraq and strike at the Shiite militias which are being equipped by Iran and that are heading towards Mosul.

Iraq has told Turkey many times to take their troops out of their country but to no avail. Once Turkish troops enter they never leave. What I can't understand is Russia. Just how far are they willing to go to maintain their relations with Turkey and the building of the gas pipeline? The Turkish PM Yildirim discussed with Moscow the situation so there wouldn't be any misunderstanding and to avoid any clashes between the Turkish and Russian forces in Syria.

Seems to me Erdogan's megalomania is getting the best of him. He is playing a very dangerous game, and it doesn't bode well for Turkey or the world.

 

Then we should probably stop trying to police the world and sticking our noses in where it clearly does not belong.

Because it's the truth. I noticed that Jean already posted the comprehensive investigation conducted by the Council of the European Union which concludes that Georgian forces initiated the military conflict and violated international law in doing so. The fact that sporadic skirmishes and exchanges preceded this does not in anyway justify the Georgian attack as it was grossly disproportionate to the threat they faced. That would be like the US launching a military attack on a Mexican border town because some criminals were firing over the border at our LEOs.

In any case, the conflict was over Ossetian independence, which they had every right to declare and assert. Surely, you of all people would understand the right to declare independence and to use armed resistance to achieve that end. The real question is: What right did Sakaashvilli have to stop them?

It seems to have ended a few dozen miles from their own border and with the voluntary accession of the people living there.

Sure, it poses "a threat" to the USA. So does Peru. The question is not do they pose a threat. The question is how much of a threat do they pose and what is the probability that this threat will actually materialize in a substantial way? And the answers are (1) not much and (2) very low. Russia is not run by maniacs. They realize that a military conflict with western Europe or the US could lead to the destruction of their country and that this is something they want to avoid. I don't see a few skirmishes or incursions right on their own border as an indication that Russia has its eye set on western Europe, let alone the USA. If anything, we should be working closely with Russia to eradicate AQ and ISIS.

I realize that. But the fact remains, the Turks are facilitating the expansion of AQ/ISIS into Syria and this represents a serious threat to our national security.

Probably not, but it's more likely than Russia invading western Europe or the USA.

I was talking specifically about skepticism towards the US government. They have proven they cannot be trusted on anything. Your best bet is to assume that they're lying until proven otherwise. So if they say Russia is some kind of a threat, there is a good chance it's a lie. And based upon all the evidence I've analyzed, my suspicion appears to be valid.

 

I think the map covers some portions occupied by the Kurds,
that group being the main headache of Turkey.
Well, although in turmoil but still they are protected by integrity of the country they are occupying,
and Turkey could not do anything about it. The Ottoman empire was already dead long time ago.

 

There is a massive build up of Turkish troops on the border with Iraq and this is Iraq's response.

"An invasion of Iraq would lead to the dissolution of Turkey, we are not Cyprus. We do not want war with Turkey but, God forbid, if there is a confrontation the Turks will pay a heavy price". ​

Turkey's new map includes Mosul. Three days before Turkey said that if the Shiite Iraq forces attack the city of Tal Afar on its border they will respond. Turkey can very well conduct a false flag attack and advance towards Mosul now that its ISIS allies are being shipped to Syria.

Does this mean the hundreds of Arab civilians killed by American bombs in Mosul, is an ethnic cleansing attempt so Turkey can repopulate the city with Turks as it did in Cyprus? The thought that my government would be involved in this genocide makes me sick to my stomach but it shouldn't considering what's going on in Yemen and Syria.

Here is Turkey's excuse for its threats and arms build up towards Iraq:

"There is no one else that supports the territorial integrity and independence of Iraq more than us. The stability and security of Iraq for us is as important as our own. If you are so powerful as to threaten us, then why does the PKK hold your land for so many years? We have stated in the past that we will take our own measures.
​

 

The Turkish government continues its totalitarian crackdown while western governments issue meek condemnations that amount to nothing.

Western governments must immediately withdraw all foreign aid to Turkey and westerners need to boycott Turkish exports.

Do not do business with the Turks. You are promoting fascism and the potential for genocide.