One big issue this Charlottesville event clarifies forever.

Being the originator, he was the authority on it.

 

But since he is now dead, who is going to determine for us who is a fascist?

 

Of course the lefties in Chasrlottesville didn't side with the nazis however, they certainly acted exactly like the nazis. The nazis showed up with helmets, shields and bats. Antifa showed up with helmets, shields and bats. Videos show them BOTH bludgeoning each other.

 

Case in point.

 

Will they now go arrest them all? I sure hope so. Don't forget Antifa too.

 

That is perhaps true. My career exposed me to the Nazi types. I've been around skinheads, and I've been around Aryan Brotherhood members and their associates. I can tell you from experience that they are an anti-social and violent bunch. Their ideology is like a religious cult, and, like all extreme cults, it gives them a doctrine to cling to that validates their own social misfunction. It's a "hate cult". They have zero respect for our Constitution or the rights of others. And I really don't think of them as right wing or conservative. True conservatives respect our Constitution, the rights of all of our citizens, and laws of our land.

But what I said above also applies to Antifa. They have an ideology they cling to, they're violent and malicious, and they too do not respect our Constitution or the rights of others. In all fairness, I will say that conservatives on PF kinda like to needle the liberals here by pinning the Antifa onto the liberals in the same way the liberals try to pin the Nazis onto the conservatives. Now this is bound to happen on a forum like this, but I see it as just sort of the "rough and tumble" of our forum. In reality, most liberals I know have almost nothing in common with the Antifa. The truth is that the Antifa are a bunch of anarchists. Being anti-Trump is just a facade - an excuse for violence. A perfect example of that was right after Trump was elected, they trashed Portland, a beautiful, prosperous, liberal city that voted about 80% for Clinton. That makes no sense until you realize that it's not really about politics with them. Politics are just a cover. It's about the violence. Personally, I don't believe they care about elections, the KKK, equality for minorities, Confederate symbols - none of that. I think they're liars. I think their true motivation is the riot and chaos, and any "cause of the day" will do. And so, I don't see them as any better, any more moral, any less un-American than the Nazis. Different ideologies to cling to, but the same social pathology applies to them both.

When I think of "right wing" or "left wing", I think of those terms within the context of loyalty to and respect for our Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Any group that is disloyal to or has no respect for our Constitution and the Bill of Rights has no standing with me. I don't really see them as "left" or "right". I just see them all as traitors. I see them as being outside the accepted left-right spectrum that spans our politics.

Respect for our Constitution obligates us to tolerate their presence in our society, but it does not obligate us to tolerate their violence. There is nothing "tolerant" about letting them run amuck. It's called "cowardice", not "tolerance". And, there is nothing patriotic about victimizing innocent people. By the same token, respect for our Constitution obligates us to not initiate violence against these fringe groups. We may defend against their violence if they initiate it, but we may not initiate it against them simply because we don't like them. As loyal Americans, this is our obligation.

Nobody ever said freedom was easy. Sometimes it's hard. Sometime you just have to grit your teeth and remind yourself that you are lucky to live in a free country. For if we can squash the rights of a small fringe group, then we have jumped onto that proverbial slippery slope that leads to the loss of freedom for everybody.

Okay, that's it for now. I've got to go to work.

Seth

 

Some true American patriots among our Trump supporters here.

Did someone mention "deplorables"?

 

...

 

Which is purely BS. Your emphasis provided, indeed. Black's law,: "Imposing strict measure to empower government and remove citizens rights." Hmm. Fascism. Antifa. Same thing.

http://thelawdictionary.org/fascism/

 

The KKK is a tiny fringe group. The Antifa is also a tiny fringe group. Neither of them are any where near "triumph".

Doesn't matter. Our Constitution obligates us all to allow unpopular opinions. If we may use violence to silence a tiny fringe group, then we may use violence to silence anybody and everybody. It is the antithesis of freedom. Good men died for those freedoms.

No, but are you suggesting that there are good KKK members? Are you suggesting there are good anarchists? I don't see any good in any of them. I think they're both toxic and both un-American.

Short answers, but I have to go to work.

Seth

 

Well...Actually, it isn't, especially when the one doing the comparisons isn't also making up the definitions.

 

Right now US business is not particularly nationalistic, which is why Trump was necessary.

 

He defined "fascism". If you find or determine another definition, you are guilty of redefining and revising history.

 

So other than uniforms and employers, when you see old movie documentation of police attacking communists, and you see the communists attacking the police, there's no difference? They're all acting exactly like communists?

Your viewpoint is superficial and therefore incorrect. I applaud it when a breakout of fascism is attacked. You see no difference because you WANT TO SEE no difference.

 

You said it yourself, "few wanted to kill"… but that also means some did.

I'm old, but my mom used to tell me when I was a kid, "birds of a feather flock together." She meant for me to be careful in choosing the people I associated with. Later on, I saw the saying revised to... "and if you don't agree with what those birds are doing, get the "flock" out of there." She also would say, "You are known by the company you keep." When crimes are committed in a group, even if you, yourself, don't pull the trigger, but you are there and don't stop it, you're an accessory to the crime and can be tried in court, as such.

As you said, maybe some are bad apples, but the proverbial saying is that one bad apple will spoil the entire barrel. The rotten apples are as much a part of the group as the good apples are. You can't claim they aren't there, and the rest of the barrel is safe from their rot. They aren't. If some want to kill and are willing to be killed, you have to deal with that straight on and remove that element or remove yourself. If you don't, you're lumped in with the bad apples. That's just reality.

 

I think they were attacked because they also attacked. They used the statue as an excuse to congregate. They came armed with weapons. They came with purchased torches. They went to a city in which they didn't live, with the idea of causing trouble and intimidation. Shazaam! They got trouble and intimidation in return.

This wasn't Charlottesville's first rodeo with these clowns. The city of Charlottesville knew this was going to be trouble and denied their permit, at first. That's why it took a court order to get the protest approved. Tell me this, just how much did this protest cost the city of Charlottesville in police, fire, emergency workers, and sanitation to have this protest rally in their city? Think the tax payers are happy about that?

It was their actions that caused them problems. Their ideology, as disgusting as it is, is a matter of free speech, just as it is for the Black Panthers and LaRaza.

 

Antifa is just as fascist as Nazis, so no.

 

I agree, and that is why I also do not consider Trump and a whole list of Republicans to be conservatives.

To be honest, all I know of Antifa is that they confronted white supremacists and Nazis in Charlottesville. So maybe there is more to learn about them.

So you're saying that organized, self-identified Anarchists who belong to Anarchist organizations have organized a branch/division/group named "Antifa"? I'm asking if it is merely your opinion that Antifa are anarchists (small "a") or that you have reliable information that Antifa are Anarchists (capital "A").

Chaos is the method of Anarchists, that is certain. They think they will be able to recruit and organize out of that chaos. If you are correct on this, it could completely change my perspective on Antifa.

Interesting. I see some right wingers as disloyal to the Constitution and some as loyal, and I see left wingers that way too. It's more a question of extremes or not extremes that I see producing the loyalty or disloyalty.

I do not disagree.

And when we see people protesting peacefully and then see right wingers or even the police attacking them, it's hard for me to vilify protesters for returning the attacks.

I'm still stuck with feeling certain that an effective response to fascism is required. We fought it once in Germany and we know it has nothing to offer us, and now it is raising its diseased head again here in the USA.

Seth, I usually find that given a rational if ideological approach, you can be counted on to be rational and decent in return. Thank you.

 

I see it as a natural evolution of the violence inflicted by the left for well over a year now.

The reason I believe that is so is because of the incredibly large laundry list of violence that started ramping up during the election cycle, with rally participants being attacked, on to the violence being committed by the left at universities, at the inauguration, on and on.

The right understands and has moved to meet that violence head on, they know that showing up without helmets and the ability to defend themselves will get them a bike lock to the head or sucker punched.

Right groups are not running around attacking left speakers for their views, they're not sucker punching female reporters, they're not burning things and smashing windows.

The violence came from the left, the right has just adapted to the constant attacks and are now fighting back.

I don't condone the violence, but I completely understand why they came prepared to fight back.

 

Good reason to stifle the efforts of good men. . . . RIGHT???

They FOUGHT and died for those freedoms.

Protesting evil is ALWAYS good, as long as it is not used as a platform to disguise subversive activities.

 

Here is how bullies respond when facing a confrontation. This is a "Unite the Right" organizer who is worried about being arrested. He is commonly armed and he works out regularly in order to look threatening and make it easier to intimidate others.

 

Those jerkoffs are just as bad as the antifa jerkoffs who burned down berkley and ferguson

 

Only in your pathetic delusional universe.

 

In the case of Charlottesville we are not discussing the police and protestors attacking each other. We are talking about two radical, violent groups having a free-for-all in a community park with little to no police presence.

 

Somebody show me some logic of the above post. PLEASE

I do not agree the Nazis are fascists. I do agree that AntiFA is but fascism denying it is fascism. They are twins.

If the kid had not run the woman over and hurt so many of the crowd, how would this read today?

Just how much fighting happened at the protests done by the KKK/Nazis. Sure fighting is wrong. But you can't show up to fight as did the AntiFA then declare you are good but they are bad.

Trumps message is unity. Both groups are thugs. Both do not deserve support.

Trump tried to be kind to both groups by saying there are good people in both sides. I realize that is fighting words to Democrats, but he was trying to not treat all there as though they all approve what happened.

Take me, had I been in that City, I would have protested the removal of General Lee's statue. But not to help nazis nor the Antifa and definitely not the KKK. I don't know any of them. I don't support people I do not know merely due to a name or slogan.

But Trump realized to protect the statues of two fine men, some others show up who resent getting called names such as Nazi or KKK.

A lot of blacks want the statues to stay up too.