Sanders Coup Attempt Against Biden

It's definitely a risk that Kamala will be POTUS and it's a risk I knowingly took. As for Biden's health and cognitive decline, I'm thoroughly convinced that the concern is vastly exaggerated and is a campaign talking point that is baseless. And I'll tell you, I have professional knowledge of these things. No, Biden is not demented at all. He shows the normal wear and tear of a person his age but there's a lot left in the gas tank.

LOL, you think we're about to become Venezuela??? This counts as the wildest prediction I've ever read here, and that's something. I don't like to accuse anybody of being a fearmonger, and I do believe that you're legit in your concerns, I just think they're exaggerated.

You know who is the true risk for Democracy? Trump. He has dictatorial tendencies. If you want to project a future for our country that would be similar to having a dictator like in Venezuela, that risk is Trump. Of course it wouldn't be a socialist dictatorship, but it would be a right wing dictatorship. Probably less damaging than a socialist dictatorship, true, but I don't want ANY dictatorship, left or right.

 

The trouble is it's leftist policies that have produced that imbalance.

 

Very well said. Kudos.

 

You make sense. I'm not for lockdowns either, but I'm not for the deliberate pursuit of herd immunity. Of the three options, the first one is vaccines/therapeutics, the second one is sensible epidemiological containment without lockdowns, and the third one is if all fails, there will be eventually some degree of herd immunity or not (the virus may become endemic, mutate, and second infections have been already proven).

Let me ask you: has herd immunity stopped the seasonal flu?

While the SARS-CoV-2 has not mutated sufficiently yet, it's not excluded.

I have explained in other posts several details about herd immunity: what it really is (not some cute new fashionable term people run wild with), how it's calculated, how it's achieved, what factors influence the threshold (numerous; it's a fluctuating number not written in stone and depends on susceptibility factors in the population and many other intervening factors), what prices there are to pay, and how difficult it is to implement a strategy for it in a population as sick as ours in which 50% of Americans have at least one predisposing condition for severe Covid-19. Then I compared even a BAD vaccine with significant side effects and meager protection, to the damage that actively pursuing herd immunity would bring us. Precisely speaking, the worse outcome is of the other of 1,000 times worse and I thoroughly demonstrated why.

And then there is the matter of long-term consequences of Covid-19 which is a nasty nasty nasty endothelial disease that damages multiple organs even in young people with no underlying conditions who had mild cases, as shown in a peer-reviewed article published by the prestigious JAMA-Cardiology. These consequences are not only a humanitarian disaster but are also economically ruinous. I demonstrated, with very generous cutting down in the likely percentage of serious sequelae, how even just 10% of patients coming out of it with significant morbidity burden, would bring about a HUGE cost in life-long treatments, curtailed productivity, and untimely death. While I do NOT defend lockdowns and never did (explore my posting history if you doubt it), I firmly believe that if we cripple a whole generation at a (generous; may perfectly be worse when this new disease is fully understood) 10% rate, the economic consequences will be worse than any lockdown.

A moron like Scott Atlas, being a freaking radiologist, completely ignores all of the above, and he runs on junk science (in Dr. Birx's direct words, and in the CDC director's words, everything that he says is false) and makes preposterous predictions that the HIT (herd immunity threshold) for the SARS-CoV-2 is 20%. LOL. What an idiot. And he's got Trump's years. Trump these days won't listen to Dr. Birx telling him that herd immunity in America will be a full-blown disaster. He listens to the freaking quack Scott Atlas. THAT's why Trump needs to go.

 

LOL, you think so? You're in for a surprise.

 

Yep, and if Joe is elected the money will go back to being held in other countries where it will once again NOT be repatriated.


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/s...s-good-as-it-is-now-2020-09-16?mod=currencies

 

Nope... I am only wondering about how much Trump will win by.

 

Nonsense. What do you think a vaccine is supposed to do?

 

I used to think like that and wanted to reward Trump with my vote due to the Warp Speed initiative... lately I've realized that it is largely independent of Trump. Better proof, by far the best vaccine so far is already being used in hundreds of thousands of people in China and is about to win approval in other countries, the CoronaVac made by Sinopharm and the Brazilian Butantan Institute. Neither Sinofarm nor the Butantan have ever received any funds from the Warp Speed initiative. While it helped Moderna and AstraZeneca, their vaccines are not nearly as good as the CoronaVac, in terms of phase 1 and 2 results, and phase 3 issues.

So, credit the scientists more than Trump, please. Three other countries, China/Brazil and Russia, have ALREADY achieved viable vaccines, way ahead of the ones sponsored by the Warp Speed initiative, and independently, so who is to say others wouldn't have achieved it the same way without Trump?

Pfizer refused the Warp Speed money and their vaccine seems better and is closer to regulatory approval than Moderna's and AstraZeneca's and Johnson and Johnson's. Novavax had great success in Australia and only partially benefitted from the Warp Speed.

See, other countries have their own "Warp Speeds" and some are actually succeeding better and faster than our companies.

And no, we shouldn't just vaccinate the supposedly vulnerable and throw the others to herd immunity by natural infection. That is EXTREMELY irresponsible, given the very possible long term consequences even for healthy people. No, we need to vaccinate as many people as those who will want the vaccine, and we need a HUGE educational campaign to get more people to accept it.

The erratic actions of the administration have actually decreased the population's acceptance of a prospective vaccine, like a recent study showed - the number of people saying they will take it is dwindling, and our boneheaded administration has a lot to do with it.

Trump keeps saying it's going away and there is nothing to fear. Under his administration and interference the CDC and FDA, which used to be trusted and venerable institutions, are now under suspicion and the population is doubting them. Consequently the trust in a vaccine is falling.

 

Really? Explain why. (This should be fun). Let's see what kind of expertise you have in these matters.

Oh, you added vaccines. Sure, herd immunity through vaccines is possible (just possible, not guaranteed) but that's not what Scott Atlas is pursuing.

 

The only thing is you

No what's has a lot to do with it is the Democratic party insistence transforming the virus into a political weapon and so the virus must be discredited at every turn.

 

We'll see. Let's save the link to this post.

 

I don't quite see what you think Trump isn't doing that you believe he should be doing.

Trump spares no resources on the vaccine and therapeutics, it's clearly the best solution he is hoping for.

we all support the containment, so does Trump. It's a no-brainer. but containment doesn't solve the problem, it won't rid the world of the virus.

what else can Trump possibly do? whether he listens to Atlas or not he is out of any other options and he IS counting on the vaccine, herd immunity is Trump's last, not first option.

you seem to have a theoretical disagreement with Atlas on herd immunity. what I do not see is practical steps you think Trump is missing or ignoring.

 

I don't know what you mean but it sounds misinformed because it's not me, it's medical science and public health.

You have a point. It's wrong to make it a political weapon and I blame the Democrats too. I have always lamented the fact that we couldn't be united to defeat a common enemy and couldn't see this as a matter of public health instead of politicizing it.

 

Oh, a lot. Stop mocking masks and undermining its use. Stop saying it's going away and there is nothing to fear. Stop interfering with the agencies and decreasing their credibility. And it's not even the worst. They are apparently, in the words of the CDC's deputy director (I quoted him by name and showed the article that quotes him, I no longer have this link but it's in my posting history) Scott Atlas is directly interfering with CDC directives in the hope of curtailing contact-tracing and testing so that the virus spreads more among the "healthy" population and all the encouragement about school reopening without the proper precautions (I'm for reopening and posted extensively in favor of it but also posted a long list of necessary precautions that he specifically wants to undermine) and school athletics is done with the boneheaded idea that the more people exposed, the better.

This is serious, Borat. This is not being advertised as such because it would be politically disastrous for suburban America, but according to leaks, is Scott Atlas' intention.

His actions and advice on this were the pivotal point that made me dump Trump as worthy of my vote.

 

@Borat it's getting late. Good discussion. Good night, buddy.

 

The Democrat party is an amalgamation of all the far left wing fringe elements in America. In many cases they hate each other. Putting the Democrats in charge leads to nothing but total chaos. But, it can be entertaining watching them go after each other.

 

The politicians don't even become rich! Uncle Sam gets money to waste, and then the Left cries. They need to read Adam Smith's manifesto on finances. Money circulates because WE circulate it. For more money in circulation, we don't need another government program. We need more entrepreneurship and growth. Stop subjugating yourselves to a 9-to-5, and be ambitious about your lives.

If we can double the number of successful entrepreneurs in 10 years, we can turn this around.

 

There simply is not going to be enough progressives to drive their agenda through Congress. Its not Biden that is their first problem. The seats we have been winning in 2018, and in 2020 will be purple not blue ones, and the owners of those seats damn well know it. It's that universal health care dynamic of 2008 all over again. Don't mistake every 'D' in Congress as having a Maxine Waters/ Dennis Kucinich ideological perspective or representing that perspective. The votes are not going to be there for truly progressive legislation.

 

Well, we can't help but thank a certain Vice Presidential nominee(I know you trashed her just posts above), for reiterating that message. Well, the political consequences of that message is that people won't trust a 'Biden vaccine' anymore than a Trump vaccine.

Have fun, that 'Trump vaccine' was a damn stupid and consequential political attack on Trump that shows in a nutshell what I've been complaining about for four years. That by making Trump the Orange Man Bad, everything else suffers. I swear, we've forgotten about keeping things relative.

 

So you managed all of that WITHOUT any ROADS provided by the government or STREET LIGHTS provided by the government or TEACHERS and SCHOOLS for your kids provided by the government or COPS and FIREFIGHTERS and LAWS provided by the government or BANK REGULATIONS provided by the government or MONEY provided by the government or EVERYTHING else provided by the government?

 

Obama has a $12 million home and I cut his grass and only have 1% of his wealth. Why is that a problem? What do you want Obama to do to correct the disparity?

 

The items you list are part of this great country that helped me. But the items you list are there for everyone.

 

So in a nutshell masks, contact tracing, the credibility of the CDC and other agencies, school reopening.... (not trying to put words in your mouth or distort what you have said, correct me if I missed anything).

Personally I agree on masks, would never install a contact tracing app on my phone, the CDC and other bureaucracies have always been too politicized and CYA and have zero credibility with me regardless of what Trump/Atlas say, and I frankly believe that schools are way more safe to reopen (with precautions of course) than gyms, bars and restaurants etc which are all pretty much open in most of the country.

It's easy to say that Trump should listen to Fauci and CDC and their very narrow (if even accurate) views on how to contain the virus... But Trump has to listen to other scientists - psychiatrists telling him about the effect of these policies on the mental health of the nation, sociologists etc on drug abuse, child psychologists on mental and educational consequences of virtual learning, economists on the consequences of let's say keeping kids out of school... Trump has to listen to all these narrow scientific positions and find a compromise which by its nature is never perfect and is thus subject to criticism by the proponents of each of these narrow views.

We'll have to agree to disagree, Trump is not perfect but he is doing everything in his power to get the vaccine and he does not want to put the nation under a lockdown. That's good enough for me, I am not paranoid about the virus... But I certainly respect your position.

Virus aside, a vote against Trump is a vote for slander, smear, bogus persecution of a political candidate by intelligence agencies, bogus impeachment, riots, looting, fake news and horrendous media bias, censorship, boycott, intimidation, dehumanizartion of political opponents .. A vote for Biden validates all these things the Dems and the swamp have done during the last 4 years as a working and successful tactic. In my it far outweighs any alleged shortcomings of Trump's response to the virus. Now they know that they can do all that and it works. If Trump loses, help us god.

 

To put that IN CONEXT you were HELPED by EVERYONE else in our nation so why should you NOT be prepared to CONTRIBUTE so that others can also achieve what you did?