Proof that Illegals Are Not Taking Jobs From Americans...

I can argue this. It doesn't make any difference whatsoever how much wage the average worker earns in a given business in regards to how successful or not a company might be.

Assuming a company is not a monopoly, this means they have competition. If company A pays average wages of $10/hour, then if company B wishes to remain competitive, they too will pay average wages of $10/hour...no matter if the work force is legal or illegal. Once all competing companies are paying similar wages to average workers, where do YOU see that 'businesses are better off'??

Lastly, there are myriad reasons for business failure, and I'll suggest wages are the least reason for business failures...

 

This cannot be correct unless you assume that only a single business can hire lower wage workers while all other competitors cannot hire similar workers.

This is the fundamental aspect of competition. If an electronic company A is producing some widget and producing it for $100, and another company B down the road is also producing a similar widget but for $80, company B will have a short-term advantage only until company A figures out how they are achieving the same product for $20 less. If company B is using $10/hour labor, legal or illegal, then all company A needs to do is start using the same labor sources. This same scenario applies to off-shore procurement in which one company will find they can buy a sub-assembly cheaper in Singapore and therefore have a temporary price advantage until their competitors start using the same off-shore resources...

 

As an example, a pizza place I used to work for hires plenty of illegal immigrants to make pizza - at a fraction of the cost of legal workers. The pizza joint isn't one of the major chains, and hiring illegals allows him to compete with the major chains like Dominoes and Pizza Hut. The major pizza chains have an advantage in supply costs. All other things being equal, it would be hard for smaller pizza shops to compete with their prices. Fortunately for the smaller restaurants, Dominoes and Pizza Hut does not hire illegal workers. This is at least one area local pizza places can make up and provide at least competitve prices.

This is probably the case in many markets. Illegal immegrants provide less expensive labor for smaller competitors, while the major chains won't hire them.

As a side note, I'm not arguing with you. We happen to agree. I believe in open borders.

 

You're not doing well in the 'sense' stakes. The macro-economy and 'specific businesses' cannot be separated. Once we understand how earnings move we have an appreciation of negative spillover effects. This is all documented in standard trade theory where (legal) labour mobility is studied. It ensures that your comment was either wrong or corrupted by rose-tinted glasses.

I certainly can, as shown by minimum wage analysis that refers to an increase in employment provided by said businesses

 

Ok. lol.

So it's entirely impossible for the general economy to do poorly while a single business does well?

 

This is what's happening in Arizona. Illegal immigration is crippling our education system, mainly because classrooms have to operate at the pace of the slowest student. The slowest student is often ESL students.

We just busted a ton of PeiWei's here that were hiring illegal immigrants. Plenty of them do landscape and construction. Many of them are perfectly fine individuals but I want them going back to Mexico, and coming back here legally. They can learn our language, understand our culture, and stop bringing the problems of Mexico to our doors.

Which then brings me into the crime aspect of it. In Phoenix, AZ most violent crime happens in Maryvale. 75% of these crimes are perpetrated by illegal immigrants.

Send them packing, already.

 

This is becoming such a sad, sad situation.
　
OK competitive hiring is the quest for higher wages, in return for higher quality of work, better output and better quality.
　
　
Competitive pricing is the highest quality of product for the lowest price and somewhere in the middle the two meet at a happy medium so that the company can still make a profit.
Best case scenario, everybody involved in the process wins!
　
　
What we have now is corporations making the cheapest quality crap possible, while paying the lowest wages possible, but maximizing the highest profits possible with non competitive prices either through coercion among corporate entities who should be competitive but are complacent with one another so they can each make peek profits through that mutual cooperation.
　
　
Hotels and motels are a good example. They agree to a wage freeze. If we pay minimum wage, you pay minimum wage for the same job, and since there are so many people willing to work for that wage, and a corporate owned government will subsidize those slave wages we business entities, both win. Then they agree to provide little to no options to the consumers so there is little to no reason to choose one company over another. If we offer a free HBO with each room, you can't offer anything of more value so they offer a continental breakfast. We also agree that we will only charge xx amount of dollars for a room with two queen size beds, a phone, and a TV, except in peek months where the same room will cost XXX amount of dollars. Competition means we lose dollars and as long as we can keep our rooms as full as possible we don't run the risk of under cutting our competition, and losing money in the long run.
　
　
So these corporate monopolies agree among themselves to, f(*)(*)(*) the employees, f(*)(*)(*) the communities, f(*)(*)(*) the consumers, and by doing so maximize profits to an unrealistic level of input, and that in turn is how the rich are getting richer and the working class peasants are eligible for food stamps. And as long as the politicians keep their hands buttered, nobody will be allowed to move in a f(*)(*)(*) things up!

 

Your argument is based on a 'single business' doing well? Crikey, you've out-done yourself! You've deliberately ignored spillover effects, or you've constructed an argument based on ignorance. Which is it?

 

That's not my argument - you have quite a knack for mis-reading. You must have poor reading comprehension. Actually, I doubt you even know what my argument is......

 

Your argument is invalid. Its based on an overly simplistic understanding of the labour market and an ignorance of economic relations. I'm sure you'll suggest otherwise, but that only reflects your inability to understand economic sense

 

You don't even know what my argument is.

 

Don't be cretinous. I've replied to your argument and noted its weakness. No need to boo hoo about it

 

No. You replied to a totally different argument. Judging by the fact that you can't even summarize it, I'm vindicated.

 

Given it was a direct demolition of your argument, perhaps you're not even aware of what you said? Its not for me to say!

Your comment over positive business effects is reliant on naive assumptions. Realise and adapt!

 

This message is hidden because Reiver is on your ignore list.

 

No bother. Let's just hope you make fewer invalid claims in the future!

 

A couple of comments about your pizza place:

Why would anyone open a 'small' pizza place with a business model of competing with the large chains? This would be ludicrous!

And if it's a small place how many workers can they hire? One or two? If they were illegals, how much less would they earn than legal workers? If you're talking about $2/hour difference, during a 5-hour shift this is only $10 in savings from hiring legal workers. If they make 50 pizzas in 5 hours this comes to $.20 per pizza in savings. $.20 per pizza is not worth the illegal effort!

 

You can find articles all day like the one referenced below...and they contradict what you are falsely claiming above. How about providing some reputable source which validates your 75%??

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/02/20100502arizona-border-violence-mexico.html

 

Received it from a police officer who patrols Maryvale, which is where I also use to live.

Plus the AZ Republic rarely posts anything that sheds a negative light on illegal immigration, and gets very abrasive with folks who are against illegal immigration. You might want to use a better source.

 

How about you using ANY SOURCE to substantiate your false assumptions??

Show us some data which says 75% of the crimes are illegals...

 

The private small farms are dissappearing because Sustainable Development..Agenda 21...the United Nations are going to try to control all food...and use it to get you to do what they wish you to do..ITs all about control

the same with dissappearing jobs..>They MUST destroy American wealth and unity...This is what MASS immigration is for...Its been used many times in history to topple great nations...MULTICULTURALISM ...FEMINISM..all designed to take us down...

iMMIGRATION DESTORYS the foundations...the traditions....

and FEMINISM destroys the unity of families...and creates divorces....which weakens the nation.

its a known fact that children raised in a original two parent home..are much more self assured..and confident..

They needed to destory our confidence to turn us into SHEEPLE PEOPLE....who just follow the globalists without peeping a word of opposition..becuase they have no confidence...

Many American have become Tacticle people..They have no confidence in themselves...

100 years ago...98% of the American people lived on farms..and fed themselves..

TODAY...98% of the people live in cities..and have NO CLUE how to take care of themselves...

When people realize both parties are one in the same....then perhaps..we can begin to take the nation back..

But dont worry...there are many out there already...doing that hard work..but they can always use an intelligent and informed electorate to help them..

JOIN THE TEA PARTY...In california..they are going to be taking on Agenda 21...the United Nations organization designed to destroy private property rights...and FORCE us ALL to live in MEGA CITIES...NO AIR CONDITIONING..NO CARS...

this is NOT the America I want to live in myself...

The FALSE FLAG CRISIS'S do NOT warrant changes such as these...There are many lies being told in the monopoly in media..the biggest WEAPON OF MASS DECEPTION on the planet..

 

Immigration is the norm. Its also a splendid economic phenomena, given it increases productivity and maximises the worth of human capital. The real problem is the shortage of growth convergence, aided of course by the US and the imposition of the Washington Consensus (which has damaged economic development and encouraged illegal immigration)

 

Maybe because we don't want the dregs of other countries all coming here to receive a better life. (notice I said receive, because these are the people who contribute nothing and leech off the system.

 

Want to reduce immigration? Encourage economic development through carefully considered multilateralism. That will require a significant shift in US behaviour, particularly away from the neo-liberalism prance coerced through right wing prattle

 

The last thing I read about 'their' contributions said;

They provide $50 billion to the Social Security fund.

They provide $450 billion to the overall US economy.

They will do lots of jobs Americans simply refuse to do.


And when you talk about 'leeching off the system', how many Americans contribute nothing, no FICA, no income taxes, yet make great demands on the medical system and government?