Proof that Illegals Are Not Taking Jobs From Americans...

They cost us over $100 billion a year. 21% of our prisons are filled with non citizens.

They don't pay into SS, that is a lie.

They don't provide $450 billion to the economy, that is another lie, they are taking anything they earn from a legal citizen.

The biggest lie of them all that they do jobs Americans refuse to do. You have no proof of that.

 

I suggest you read and learn;

http://www.fishkind.com/radio/091906spot.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5312900

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/01/news/economy/immigration_economy/index.htm


I hire laborers from the local labor hall all the time, and in all cases I never know if they are illegal or not. But what I do know, what I have proof of, is never once has there been any white-bread Americans at the labor halls willing to do farm work...never!

 

So, without knowing it, you're part of the 'depression of local wages'

 

So you are a big part of the problem in America. Wow.

 

More of your fictional stuff??

I didn't even mention wages so how can you possibly judge if there has been a depression of wages?

If you would read closer, you would have noted that I said there are never other workers willing to do the work. On our side of the pond this means if there are no other workers it is impossible to depress wages.

 

Well at least I got that going for me...

 

You referenced a paper that acknowledged a depression of wages. You've also acknowledged that you may be employing illegals. Perhaps you don't understand what you type?

 

What about all the babies born here, and I don't mean just to immigrants. They contribute nothing and leech off the system. We should prevent anyone from having children!

 

My post clearly stated the scenario in which I function all the time...the reality which you always wish to ignore. If there are NO OTHER WORKERS other than questionable dark-skinned laborers, and when I DO NOT set their wages, there is no way possible in my scenario, which I communicated in that post, that I'm causing any depression of wages.

 

I've not ignored anything. Indeed, I've referred directly to the sources that you've provided.

Local workers in the markers are deterred by the 'depression of wages'. You seem to want to ignore basic labour economics in order to hide from the reality

 

You've presented a source that refers to the depression in wages. You've admitted that you're part of that phenomenon. Your reality seems to be about misunderstanding what you're typing.

A low skilled equilibrium is a demand-side phenomenon. You again advertise your innocence

 

This is really untrue. Whether it be illegals or unskilled labor it is supply and demand which determines their income. Further if you believe there is a depression of wages, then you must also believe the middle-class wages are depressed as well. If $10/hour is considered a depressed wage, and if the average American is earning $18/hour, what does this indicate to you? Don't you believe if government forces, in whatever fashion, your so-called depressed wages from $10/hour to $15/hour or more, in time this will simply cause inflation and all other wages will increase which places the $15/hour people right back on the bottom rung...what does this mean to you?

 

An ignorant statement as even orthodox economics predicts underpayment (i.e. wages that do not reflect supply/demand criteria)

You're the one that presented a source that referred to depression of wages. You continue to have no understanding of the stuff that you're peddling

 

You are becoming a bore since you never wish to discuss reality. You can quote all the obtuse stuff you wish but none of it can trump what happens in reality!

Reference: http://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...10329545/1350?Title=UFW-E-J-Gallo-reach-deal-

EVEN WITH UNIONS INVOLVED...farm workers just signed a contract which ranges from $10.02/hour to $16.00/hour with the Gallo company. Only a few workers who can operate equipment and have special skills will earn $15-$16/hour pay. The bulk of the workers are going to earn from $10.02/hour to $12/hour for unskilled and lower skilled work.

In your finite wisdom you declare the illegals cause a depression of wages yet illegals are not even part of this story! The reason these 370 vineyard workers will continue to earn your depressed wages is because there's another 500 or 1000 workers standing around who will to do this same work...SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

The next time you refer to me or my words as ignorant will be the last time we correspond...I am sick and tired of your constant personal attacks. If you don't like what I say, and you are incapable of adult debate without the immature barbs, then avoid my posts!

 

You're the one making idiotic statements about supply and demand, not me. You're using an approach incapable of explaining the wage distribution. That's petty dogma dominating any attempt at explaining actual phenomena

A petty fib. Your own source referred to the depression in wages. You may want to justify your part in that, but I just find that inane

I haven't made any personal attacks. I've merely acknowledged that you're making unsupportable comments based on basic knowledge deficiencies over economic 'reality'. Mere honesty. If honesty is beyond your comprehension then please ignore me. However, I will continue to be honest

 

So what is your point?

 

Illegals are not taking jobs from Americans...

 

As already remarked, that cannot be supported by the evidence.

 

It is supported nearly every day in the reality in which I live and function. As a farmer who hires day-labor, NEVER are there any white-bread Americans wanting to do this work! As I clearly showed you even with unions involved this work only pays $10-$16/hour...depressed wages as 'you' call them.

If my comment about 'illegals are not taking jobs from Americans' can possibly be wrong, then please explain why the Americans are not at the labor halls wanting to do this type of work?

If the wages are too low for spoiled white-boys, then the problem is not wages...it is the spoiled white boys. Wages are not going to increase because there are far more dark-skinned workers than there are jobs...and most of these workers have work-visas...very few are illegal...

 

I'm not surprised given the depression in wages you were kind enough to refer to. Of course severe underpayment of workers has always been an issue in the agricultural sector. We can't just blame the illegals!

 

The average distance produce travels, which is sold in the USA, is 1500 miles. Some of this stems from shipping coast to coast and some of it stems from more imports. Imports are forcing domestic prices down. I can't even figure out how a company in Italy, can grow grapes, make wine, bottle it, and ship it to the USA, with all the profit markups, and have a retail price of $3/bottle?! Using this example, American producers cannot possibly incur more costs in manufacturing...like higher labor costs. If the supply and demand of cheap labor was suddenly skewed with high demand and low supply, and labor costs increase from $10-$16/hour to $15-$21/hour, producers will simply go out of business. In this case, the wine industry, just like so many other industries, will simply move off-shore. Sure you can place tariffs on imports but all this does is force inflation. Tariffs or not, the more stuff forced off-shore the fewer jobs in the USA, the more poverty and government costs. It's a global marketplace and increasing labor costs, for unskilled and lower-skilled workers, will just force more to go off-shore...

 

This is also nonsense! Comparative advantage, through the specialisation process, will ensure "stuff forced off-shore". However, that doesn't reduce jobs. It instead free up resources for more productive endeavour. You've abuse supply and demand to ignore Economics 101

 

Did you not get it? The man lives and breathes this type of industry. Very FEW Americans WANT to do this job. They want the good office-paying job and in my opinion, we have become so lazy that people who are not even legal immigrants are taking over our jobs. Geez. And I am sadly one of those people. Americans have moved away from agriculture. We want bigger and better things now. We don't want to sweat over $10 an hour. Although, I would not mind because I am a hard worker, but why would I when I have a better job sitting on my butt all day while I get paid even more or same? You have the crop, but if you dont have the person to work it, then dont expect to find much at the grocery store.

 

I'm a country boy brought up from my teens working on farms. I also saw the rapid reduction in native born workers. It was the farmers themselves driving it, given migrant workers have even juicier underpayment.

Given the hours worked by the working class I find the 'we're lazy' fairytales a proper chore