Proof that Illegals Are Not Taking Jobs From Americans...

You don't break the law!! You pay better wages, offer better bennies, or find another line of work. Your whole attitude is me, me, me, and that could very well be where the problem lies, with you! Surely you are not suggesting that every time something doesn't work "your" way it is perfectly acceptable to act as a criminal?

 

More ignorant words spoken without an ounce of reality??

I'm a farmer.

Farming land and farming products are necessary.

You and others whine and refuse to pay higher prices for quality USA products so you just buy (*)(*)(*)(*) that has been on average shipped 1500 miles from foreign lands.

You've obviously NEVER operated a business.

If this was for a fricken moment about me-me-me, I would sell the property for the million$ it is worth, and retire a long way from the USA.

And when we sell because of me-me-me, you will get exactly what you deserve; another housing or mall or industrial development...or how about empty and useless land filled with scrub-brush...

 

Sorry but the reality is you admit too, and rationalize your criminal tendencies, which by definition would make you a "criminal".
　
　
I don't have to defend your idiotic rant either, since I'm not the criminal here.

 

Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

Makes you wonder why anyone who hates this place as much as he obviously does would bother to hang around anyway?

 

It's an interesting ignorance on these forums and in the USA in which so many wish to ignore reality in favor of some other xenophobic and political or religious bias. This ignorance does not allow the discovery of the true problems therefore never allows effective problem solving and/or solutions. One thing about the cycle of ignorance; no matter where you are in that cycle, it is riddled with ignorance. Closed minds, heavy bias, righteousness, arrogance, and ignorance are in themselves a cancer on this nation and Earth. I don't expect you and others to understand, although I wish you would be more open to absorbing more information in order to raise the old IQ a couple of points. Sadly...this is one huge problem that does not seem to have any near-term improvements...

 

It's not a good idea unless you are pleased with losing the farms.

We are idiots in some ways to spend the money and stress to maintain this property.

While we believe we are doing the right thing to preserve all aspects of farming, and this property, and an American way of life, we are forced to deal with idiots who only exist in their heavily biased and closed-minded worlds, ignorant of reality.

It's no wonder why the USA is struggling...

 

It certainly is!
　
As I said before, your problems may stem from inside you. Other than that, I don't know if you realize it or not but things are not the way they were 30-40 years ago. Private farms are on the way out, and the government and the corporate entities they work for, will see to it, you don't have a pot to (*)(*)(*)(*) in, so change may be your biggest obstacle.
　
　
One thing is for sure, attacking me isn't going to change that disposition you find yourself in.

 

As a nation today we appear to be left wanting regarding manufacturing jobs. Many have gone off-shore, many are lost to mechanization/automation, and unemployment will remain higher than before. Not sure we could have done much to keep this from happening, but no matter, the negative impacts are being felt today.

Don't you think farming has some similarities to manufacturing? If more and more food/drink products are being produced off-shore, if many farms are disappearing from the US landscape, not only will we have unemployed farmers, but we'll also have unused land.

Losing manufacturing is primarily an economic issue. Losing farming is also an economic issue but food products are essential to our survival. Just like oil, it seems pretty stupid of us to allow foreign nations to have too much control over our food products...

 

Sure I do. And the cronyism that has gone on in the last 40-50 years to assure these industries are controlled and isolated in that control by a small minority of entities is proof that the government is involved in manipulating these key industries to maximize profits and to hell with the stability of our nation.
　
　
Look you're old enough to remember when our parents shopped they could obtain fresh locally grown products (seasonal of course), that were cheaper than shipping the same product hundreds of miles, and kept local economies afloat. The Farmers Market my mom and dad used to like to go too when I was in high school was located at the center of the farming community in that area. Today the building (barn) has been remodeled, and is a recreation center for a housing development area that is full of houses the majority of the population in that area cannot afford. The land is destroyed for future farming because of the residential areas that are there no.
　

1st the banks deemed the land more valuable than the need for food, so they refused to loan a reasonable amount of money to any farmers who fell into a bad situation, and insisted they borrow against the land way more than they could afford to pay back. You need $15,000 to get you to harvest time. Absolutely not. You will borrow $250,000.00 which you must purchase equipment you probably don't need, but you won't get the money otherwise.
　
　
2nd The state and local governments did their share to zone and tax them out of existence. The area I grew up in had some of the largest dairies in the southwestern United States. None exist in locations today and all dairy products are shipped in from out of state, thanks to rezoning and tax appreciation.
　

3rd anybody who was surviving at that point selling to local markets and trying to maintain their meager existence, were eliminated from the competitive pool as the same corporate farms who purchased their products, gave them less than the going rate to buy their product (IOW they could only sell it for less than it cost to grow it), and accept it they would or their product could rot on the vine. And in many cases they did.
　
　
　
4th they the corporate entities who squeezed them out of getting a fair price for their product also started requiring the local super markets to sign exclusive contracts with them and their suppliers (same entities under the same corporate logo) so the local farmers had nobody else to turn to, to purchase their product. You want the paper towels and toilet paper we bring your store every week, you also have to buy our tomatoes, corn, and watermelons, and if you get caught buying local farmers products, your store shelves will become empty while the other stores in the area get your customers.
　
　
5th the free trade agreement opens the door for these major corporate farm monopolies (as well as many other corporate entities to vacate the premises for profits while still remaining American companies on paper anyway) to utilize tax/farming supplements (the largest majority of these funds going to them already) and incentives from our government funneled to these key corporate entities to purchase land in Mexico and fully automate them and muscle out the locals there as well, eliminating any and all competititon.
　
　

The rest is history, and as you said our food supply is isolated to a few areas of the country and out of the country (which is completely a national security risk), all in the name of maximizing profits for the governments favorite corporate bosses, and the politicians encouraging this sort of cronyism get their cuts from guaranteed monopolized stocks they hold onto in their names and lucrative campaign donations to assure their favorite political whores remain in office. With all the money raking in they buy the interests of both major parties so even if they cannot control the elections their guy gets in.
　
　
It's not much different with the manufacturing. Hostile takeovers in the 1980's ruled the day while strategically hiding behind the “buy American” label, allowed a small minority of companies to takeover, consolidate, and easily control entire industries that made this nation such a powerhouse in the world economy while reduced our nation’s strength to the level it is today, verging on a welfare state. And of course we are now feeling the effects of the famous "trickle on" economic plan the rich/elite and their bought and paid for politicians played on us, to maximize profits at all costs, while gutting out our manufacturing infrastructure, and destroying the jobs that allowed us to maintain a strong productive middle class for such a long period of time after WWII.
　
　
Now they are playing the working class against the poor and doing a great job at that to maintain their power. If we do not implode within the next 10-15 years it will be a miracle since that seems to be the next step in store so they can come in and save the day when the Chinese finally unionize and demand their fair share of the profits their work creates and the process will start all over again as we as a nation will be glad to get a job that pays below the poverty level so we can once again put overpriced food on the table. In the mean time the rich/elite will still be riding high on the hog, in complete charge of as many governments as they need to get the job done, and maintaining their jurisdiction over the peasants they rule over, and always have. Simply put, a reshuffling of their marked deck we keep allowing them to play with.
　
　
　
Of course you can stick with your regular opinion of huh-uh, but it won’t change where we as a nation are headed one little bit.

 

But consumers would pay a much higher price for fruit.

 

You'll have to explain how immegrants have caused the failure of "countless businesses, as this does not pass the smell test. In fact, it seems to me, that the highly reduced labor costs would help businesses and the exact opposite is the case: most businesses only succeed because of "illegal" workers.

And if "my" desk were "given" to somebody else willing to work for less, it wouldn't be "my" desk anymore, would it?

 

It's amazing that you think you're superior to a person based solely on the location of your birth.

 

Depends on what they do with their wages. As shown by trade theory with labour mobility, a country can be made worse off if a significant proportion of earnings end in in the 'home' country.

 

There is a such thing as a legal immigrant... something liberals don't realize exists.

 

What does this have to do with somebody thinking their better than somebody else?

 

Yes. Not many are allowed the immigrate to the U.S. legally as a percentage of those who want to.

 

You comment "most businesses only succeed because of 'illegal' workers" becomes rather suspect. There is absolutely no way that you can make that evaluation unless you know where the earnings end up

 

You and I actually agree on something... wow. But good point none the less.

 

Not suspect at all, and it makes perfect sense. I wasn't making the comment with regard to the macro economy, but rather specific businesses. You can't argue with the fact that businesses are better off when they pay workers less, and it's perfectly reasonable to say that some businesses would fail without the illegal workers.

 

It's perfectly asinine to say so. It may cut into the profits you are accustomed to by breaking the law and cutting corners, but the big picture is if you cannot survive without paying slave labor wages you need to go out of business and make room for small businesses that do not need such a large profit margin, membership at the country club, and a new car every year. If the business is truly worth while venture the customers will keep it going, and bottom line if there isn't a demand then there isn't business.

 

Illegals (Mexicans / Guatamalans)are the BEST in Cutting Lawns and Trimming Trees.
They are better workers in Roofing, Construction work, Cleaning Barns.......

And besides......They work hard for Minimun Wage / Cash per days work, and don't complain about nothing.

 

Just keep rationalizing your criminal activity, then when the country is over run with the little beggars' don't complain when you have to work to support their welfare loving arses even more than you are now!!

 

This is the problem; they won't pay a higher price!

The markets adjust themselves. Consumers either buy or they don't. Producers provide whatever they can as long as it makes business sense. Workers pay is to some level decided by supply and demand.

There's no profit conspiracy. There's no government conspiracy. This is simply how markets operate.

It is my contention, that illegal workers have little impact on lower wages. Why...because there are tens of millions of other mostly immigrants with legal work status who are willing to do the same work. And as long as there are many more workers than there is work, the wages are going to remain low. High supply and low demand equals lower wages...