Democrats are crying the Republicans have a war on unions in a number of cities and states and the truth is, they do. But why? Yes, the union and employees are giving some back and willing to pay more for their very generous pensions and health care. But the truth is, they aren't willing to give enough to get the cities and states out of the hole they're in. Many companies and some cities have had to dump their defined pension plans because they have become to darn expensive, along with paid health care. With the high unemployment and smaller tax revenue, there just isn't enough to fund these pension plans. The Democrats know this as well as Republican Governors and mayors. But Democrats dare not say it. This makes good ammo to throw at the Republicans. We are for the working man, the Republicans just want to take from you. It's great to use for the next election. The truth is, we have millions of Baby Boomers ready to retire. Some after working for only 20-30 years. Many can retire in their fifties and draw these great pensions and medical for the rest of their life. But there just isn't the money there to fund it. It wasn't bad when you had just a few going, but now it's millions. What are cities and states suppose to do? You can only cut services so much. You can only raise taxes so much in a bad economy. So what's the answer? Try and rid yourself of defined pensions and go to a 401-K plan. But the unions are fighting it, so you have to fight the unions. It's as simple as that. But you'll never hear a Democrat admit it.
You sir.... hit the nail on the head. The pensions, overtime, and benefits are so outrageous that it is bankrupting cities, counties, and gee... look at the state of California. Even Jerry Brown is being forced to attempt to cut the union rip off back. Here is the issue. TAX PAYER $ >> GOV'T >> PUBLIC UNION EMPLOYEE >> PUBLIC UNIONS >> DEMOCRATIC PARTY The money flow is direct and it is HUGE. The Democrats could care less about the outrageous benefits, they care about the BIG UNION $$$$.
Philadelphia Daily News2011-08-01: ERIKA NIEDOWSKI The Associated Press CENTRAL FALLS, R.I. - The state-appointed receiver overseeing Rhode Island's cash-strapped Central Falls on Monday filed for bankruptcy on the city's behalf in an effort to help it get back on its feet. Receiver "From the ashes of bankruptcy Central Falls will rise again," Flanders said at a news conference at City Hall.... more » http://article.wn.com/view/2011/08/0..._bankruptcy_q/
Arizona News from The Arizona Republic Phoenix out more for pensions by Craig Harris on Oct. 26, 2011, under Arizona Republic News Phoenix residents for a second straight year will pay more than $100 million in fiscal 2012-13 to maintain the citys ailing employee-pension system, while a task force considers whether current city employees should shoulder more of the cost. Deputy City Manager Rick Naimark said Tuesday that the citys financial contribution to the Phoenix Employee Retirement Plan for the fiscal year that begins July 1 will increase to $110 million, roughly $3.6 million more than the current fiscal year. http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/10/26/phoenix-out-more-for-pensions/
The Public Eye: Pension promises threaten California cities ... www.sacbee.com/2010/04/.../pension-promises-threaten-california.ht... Apr 11, 2010 Read Sacramento news, including local and breaking Sacramento ... reports for pension plans of most of the state's 40 largest cities and 40 ... Alabama Town Defaults on Pensions, Breaks State Law; Renewed ... globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/.../alabama-town-defaults-on-p... Dec 23, 2010 Alabama Town Defaults on Pensions, Breaks State Law; Renewed Calls ... Many cities and states are struggling to keep their pension plans ... Pension Tsunami www.pensiontsunami.com/ Brown's Break With California's Pension Status Quo (editorial - San Diego ... Takeover of State's Capital City Harrisburg (Marc Levy / Philadelpia Enquirer) ... Gazette Chicago » City and State employee pensions face the ... www.gazettechicago.com/.../city-and-state-employee-pensions-face-t... Mar 4, 2011 City and State employee pensions face the chopping block ... the pension situation for City, County, and State employees, as record-breaking...
Back in the 1990s I remember Rush Limbaugh defended the low pace of wage increases for the middle class compared to the rich. He said it was because people were getting benefits and shouldn't complain. The idea was that you didn't get paid more but you were compensated by receiving a better benefit packages to make up for that. Now the shoe is on the other foot. We started with the boom of the 90s and ended in the stretched out bust of the past few years. Now we can't afford the benefits packages. As sad as it is, I agree that if regional governors can't get their budgets to work they will have to cut pensions, or go into bankruptcy which would also cut pensions. But, at the same time, as long as we're being honest, I believe what happens to the Unions has a direct impact on the outlook of what the future holds for everyone, even the people who aren't working for unions. You see, the way I see it, the Unions are to labor like the rich are to the income bracket they are the dream, the standard that everyone hopes to one day have. As people watch the Unions get stripped of the big three retirement necessities: employer provided Medical insurance and Pension, and the on-going, related attacks on welfare (Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid), the same Unions who are suppose to protect their members interests tooth and nail can't even hold on to their mission statement. So, what happens to the rest of us who don't have an agent at headquarters looking out for out interests? It makes a lot of people uneasy that they don't have a future. Oh sure we can throw out the system and start over, some of us, but the older folks are worn out and don't want to start from scratch. And, going back to Rush Limbaugh's argument, when Republicans cut the Union benefits are Republicans asking Unions to accept lower wages with no extra benefits during a time when the future of middle class retirement is up for question? Why would people do such a thing when the only thing left for workers to do afterwards is to whine about their wages then? I mean no extra benefits means more financial hardships. Meanwhile, as Rome burns as they say, Republicans promote the idea that the rich are so burdened with their record tax breaks, those who post record profits in a recession, that they need less taxes and regulations to survive.
Well sad to say, Rush was right. Many employees did give up higher wages to get better pensions. He told the truth there. Your right, they have little choice I'm sorry to say. I admit it doesn't look good. Unions have been the backbone of our society. They did wonders for the working man. Most everyone benefited from unions, no matter if you were union or not. Even non union companies had to raise wages and benefits to a degree, just to keep employees from quitting and going to a union shop. White collar people in union companies, got raises when union employees did, even though they weren't union. In some ways unions were to good. They not only got many of their members good wages and benefits, they lobbied Washington to come out with laws to protect the working man. They now have laws on the books to give you safe working conditions, pay for working over time, breaks and lunch after working so long, a minimum wage, legal recourse for unfair firing, etc. So in a way, unions are not quite as important as they use to be. But they still have the right to exist. I think it's not just Republicans that should be cutting benefits. Every Governor and Mayor who works for a city or state that is in serious trouble with these pensions, has a duty to cut them. A duty to the whole state. But I also believe when times are good you take and when times are bad, you give back. There should be something agreed on if good times come back, benefits should be restored according to the gain. Maybe not as they were, but it could be in a cash bonus like when a company makes a profit.
During most of the 20th century, pensions and long term employment at decent wages persuaded loyalty and quality to the company from the workers. It promoted a progressive society that grew and provided. Then stockholders and the bottom line replaced workers and innovation as the priority, then stagnation killed off the product. Decades later, we do not have an agreeable snap fix.
But there never will be any more "good times" for working people. The wealthy have gathered FOUR TIMES more of the income and more of the wealth. That comes from what they used to share with the working people. The working people simply support more and more of the wealthier and wealthier drones.
In California Governor Jerry Brown, a Democrat, has proposed changes to public employee pension plans. He wants to move away from the defined benefit pension plan model, and replace it with a quasi-defined contribution pension plan model for new hires. The California public employee unions have responded with a resounding no. I'm happy that the unions have taken a hard stance, but then again, I don't have their best interests at heart. They are making a huge blunder. Good for them.
They are making huge blunders and the next step will be like Wisconsin did, to fight the unions. I can't blame the employees for being angry. Many times they gave up higher wages for a better pension and medical care. They are getting screwed now, because the cities, states have to cut those benefits to stay a float. There is no choice for them. Like it or not, that is the plain fact of the matter. It goes along with our weak economy that doesn't look like it will ever be as good as it was. An era is over and Free Trade played a big part in it.It's just hard for people to except. Of course the Democrats want to play it up as nothing more than a Republican conspiracy against the unions and the working man. But they know the truth of the matter. They are only brain washing their people.
Sounds like a simple-minded assesement to me. I am one of the baby boomers getting ready to retire. I have been paying into social security and medicare for almost 50 years. I'm really looking foward to living the good life now. With my great pension and health care, I might make ends meet if my health hold up and I can continue to work at least part time. Its looking like that might be hard to do as so many people are looking for work of any kind. Seeing as how the JOB CREATERS moved all our jobs to CHINA so they could get cheap labor. Yes its our fault that the economy is so bad for all the poor folk while the top 1% seem to be raking in the cash at a record pace while they say our school teachers are paid to much and should learn to get by on less. Yes, I think you have got this all figured out, we need more thinking folk like you to get this problem solved.
Gee why are these companies moving out? Have you ever sat down and thought about it? Here let me help you because it for sure you haven't. http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/214284-how-get-employment-back-up-8.html post 75
Now if that doesn't explain it enough for you and you want to know how it all started, I suggest you read this. You may find out my reasoning isn't as simple minded as you think it is. Who's responsible for killing the middle class? http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...15-whos-responsible-killing-middle-class.html
You seem to believe "the wealthy" is a group of people that have existed for ever and never change actors.
So tell us about these outrageous pensions, overtime and benefits. Make a list and put into black and white what you so carelessly claim. Proofs in the pudding, bubba, so start cooking. Don't cook, huh? Didn't think so.
You don't seem to understand how the free market works. The rich were not nicer people in past who "shared" their wealth out of the goodness of their hearts. Then just as now they paid workers what they were worth and no more. If a master machinist could get $60 an hour down the street at a competitor's factory then that's what it cost to keep him from walking. Workers were paid more because their work was worth more. And the reason for that was that our economy was more or less closed to foreign competition and if the rich wanted to make something they had to use local labor. Now they can move the factory to China, pay $1 an hour maybe less, and sell the product in America. Instead of making it here they just sell it here. Now the lefties like you and Obama cry about the evil rich people and want to make them pay more taxes so that you can give away more welfare to people who should be working instead of mooching off the government. End free trade with China by imposing tariffs again and put Americans back to work.
According to an article in The Macomb Daily 3/16/07; "GM to seek health care cuts for workers, retirees" "General Motors Corporation will try to reduce its staggering employee and retiree health care liabilities in upcoming contract talks with The United Auto Workers, according to a government regulatory filing Thursday. GM said its obligation for post-retirement health care and other benefits was and could grow on a global basis, the company said in its annual report filed with The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/91697/97051.html?1174067092
Cash Compensation Chart 1 shows the average hourly compensation for UAW workers and the average compensation for all private sector workers. These figures are based upon calculations by the Detroit automakers themselves as published in SEC filings, their annual reports, and other materials. According to briefing materials prepared by General Motors, "The total of both cash compensation and benefits provided to GM hourly workers in 2006 amounted to approximately $73.26 per active hour worked." GM http://www.heritage.org/research/re...y-cost-the-big-three-automakers-70-an-hourhas GM has 3.1 more retirees than workers.
well here's my thoughts. I don't like the idea of people losing their pensions especially if they had to sacrifice better wages earlier for them but, if the money isn't there it isn't there.(Its a shame but, what can you do? ) Some people talk about regulations to stop us from buying foriegn goods but you can all clearly see where the products are from. If you don't want to buy foriegn goods start paying more than 1$ for 50 socks. Its gonna cost more to buy from home but it will help our country more than buying foreign. In theory demand for goods from here will increase demand for workers to make said goods here thus, more jobs!
It is both. When your paying out for 400,000 retirees and their family it HURTS? That is also 400,000 pensions. We are talking of billions of dollars they are paying out that the imports aren't. How many cars does GM have to sell just to pay that? Do you know Toyota only has less than 600 retirees? They aren't paying medical on them either.
Hey I'm you huckleberry. Do you know the difference between a defined benefit pension plan and a defined contribution pension plan? That's the starting point. Give me you answer and we'll continue our dialogue.
