13 Russian nationals indicted for interfering with U.S. elections and political processes

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by goody, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its only just begun...

    Remember the republican argument that there is no crime called collusion? Seems with these indictments mueller has now defined what the crime is. Conspiracy to defraud the United States.

    It won't be much longer.
     
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  2. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Mueller indictment is really a joke and IMHO used to drive the media narrative at that time. For instance the indictment finds wishing Happy Birthday a crime if a sign held up in front of the WH.

    “Happy 55th Birthday Dear Boss.”
     
  3. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Still not collusion and good luck getting them here from St Petersburg for trial.
     
  4. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    It has been reported that computer forensics on the DNC server revealed their leaked files were transferred at a rate of 22.6 MegaBytes per second, that this is the usual transfer rate to a portable "memory stick", but an impossible speed to transfer online through a 'hack'.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  5. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    You are right. Hillary conspired with Russia in her opposition research fake dossier
     
  6. goody

    goody Banned

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    I don't think the dossier is fake... That's a little demonstration of a huge fck up !
     
  7. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and the boss refers to who exactly?
     
  8. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    not all that important. If they leave russia for the EU for instance or Canada, they're screwed.
    Its establishing the parameters of the CRIME.

    Notice the indictments were for russian individuals and companies and not russian officials. The federal crime has been established. Collusion is now conspiracy to defraud the united states. That' sounds a lot more ominous and "unpatriotic" doesn't it?

    No doubt meuller has a fair idea who might have also committed that crime within the campaign and the transition team. stay tuned. its only just begun...
     
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  9. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Keep wishing.
     
  10. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Gee, asking people on the forum here how the Russians involved the,selves in our elections is the same answer if you put on your tv where it’s explained non stop....and 13 were indicted
     
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  11. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Mueller's indictment of 13 Russians and 3 Russian entities for intervention in the US election is a mistake. Naturally, as a prosecutor, Mueller expects an indictment solves every problem. Naturally too, a criminal (rather than counterintelligence) investigation is dispatched with an indictment (instead of more imaginative and effective measures). Mueller is not wrong in indicting these Russians, this is the only thing he can do.

    Normally such interference in elections would be subject to a "counterintelligence investigation" which would be reported directly to the president, who would instruct the intelligence community, State Department, banking, trade and other economic oversight agencies, as well as the military authorities, on what retaliatory measures to undertake. In this instance, Mueller, operating under the presumption Trump was colluding with Russians to defeat Hillary, characterized his investigation as "criminal" rather than of "counterintelligence". This was done to avoid the necessity of reporting to Trump developments as they investigated (required for "counterintelligence") because Mueller is operating under the presumption Trump was involved and would conceal evidence of this if he was told of the investigation's developments.

    Now we've got outrage from the left Trump hasn't done much about something he was never apprised of
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  12. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    What is so amazing is you are probably one of those people who went ballistic suspecting that Obama was kenyan and yet have no problem with Russia interfering with our election and Our very democracy you are the ones he spoke about, “my base will defend me even if I shoot someone on fifth Avenue“. This isn’t even about Trump being involved this is about our democracy at war with Russia and yet you have a president who doesn’t even want it investigated. Shame on you
     
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  13. goody

    goody Banned

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    It's not a mistake at all... It's a chess move. Trump was saying the entire thing was a hoax, now his argument is based on the timeline saying all got started back in 2014, before his presidency. So this one was just enough to sent that argument to garbage. Next moves will be harsher, that I'm sure of !
     
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  14. cerberus

    cerberus Banned Donor

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    That sounds like yet another 'lack of solid evidence' post to me, Striped Horse? Sommat tells me that by asking the question, you and I are :deadhorse: ??
     
  15. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    And?

    Yes, I probably missed them all. Owing to the fact I wasn't a member then. But don't let technicalities like that interrupt your bathroom flow. If you have conclusive evidence then go ahead and post that - you'd be the first person in years who's managed to do that.

    If you have a thousand documents that prove nothing (i.e., the analysis by DNC bottom stroker, CrowdStrike), then keep it where the Sun don't shine. It's not proof.

    In the interim the below from former British Ambassador, Craig Murray:

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/12/cias-absence-conviction/

    Obama is also on the record saying that it was not a hack but a leak:

    https://gosint.wordpress.com/2018/01/20/one-year-ago-obamas-cryptic-comment-on-the-dnc-leaks/
     
  16. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Yes, check out William Binney's various statements on this. He was formerly a very senior officer of the NSA and put in place many of the systems still in use there. He and another (an independent analyst) conducted the investigation that proved this conclusively. Binney was later invited to a private meeting by the DCI at the CIA where he offered to present the proof to the Director.
     
  17. cerberus

    cerberus Banned Donor

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    [​IMG] :mrgreen:
     
  18. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    It's hardly covered on TV here in the UK. Probably because we Brits are far less gullible.

    Indicting people is proof of nothing when they can't be extradited to stand trial. It's the worst sort of old fashioned political flummery, akin to someone claiming one of the X Men humped a Whale. Completely meaningless outside of media headlines and hype.

    Meanwhile, US TV has not presented any evidence - that I'm aware of anyway. They present talking heads and former dubious intel types who say the Russian did it. That's rhetoric, not evidence. Belief has no place outside of a church service and certainly has no standing in a court of law or international disputes such as this.

    In any event go ahead and provide solid evidence if you've got it.

    But forgive me if I work on the basis that you'll be no different to anyone else here and won't provide anything. Trust me I've looked. There is no hard evidence.
     
  19. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly, this is designed as a media event not something useful.
     
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  20. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    You learn more about people by the side of the argument they defend.
    You defend Russia, I defend those who have proof.
     
  21. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Though apparently you don't fully understand the term "dodge", you seem quite skilled at it!
     
  22. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Oh so sorry the fbi did t share all its findings with us. If you notice even the Republicans aren’t bashing the FBI anymore. For the president of the United States to bash our security is a national disgrace. There is no question now that Russia interfered with our election and they are at war with us cyberly. (Is that a word?)
    What confuses me so much is people like you who would rather defend Trump then to defend the very democracy of our country. Imagine if this was Obama. Look how you want to go after Hillary
     
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  23. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    What proof? All you seem to do is talk? I've learned that about you already.

    Meanwhile, there's no side when proof is concerned. There either is proof or there's not. You don't have any, , so cut the bluster or do what you claim. Or will I and others here have to endure another round of your verbosity backed by absolutely nothing?

    Yep, I guess we will.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  24. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    About Trump not doing anything about this Russian interference, some points to note:

    Mueller conducted a criminal rather than counterintelligence investigation, the difference between these two is that the president MUST be informed of counterintelligence investigations, but does not have to be of criminal investigations. Trump WAS NOT INFORMED of the investigation into Russian interference in the election until Mueller disclosed his latest indictment.

    Mueller is operating under the premise Trump cannot be informed of his investigation's progress since Trump is the target, if he reported to Trump on this, the president could cover his tracks and conceal evidence, so Trump had to be kept in the dark on this.

    Had Trump been informed of these Russians he probably would have threatened sanctions, summoned the Russian ambassador for a dressing down, complained to Putin, expelled whatever diplomats...

    None of the 13 Russians are agents of the Russian government, they're not from the KGB, not spies, they were paid by a restauranteur in St. Petersburg whose only tie to Putin is that he has catered banquets for visiting foreign dignitaries there.

    The Russians were paid $1.2 million a month and engaged in their deception for 5-6 months in the US.

    Mueller's indictment refers to infantile emails between these Russians describing their pranks, one boasts the FBI is onto him.

    Mueller's indictment of these Russians is deflection.
     
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  25. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    This may come as a shock. But I do not work for the FBI. You are correct I don’t have proof but the FBI is working on that
    I kind of get the feeling that you don’t want the FBI investigating one of the most dangerous things that has happened to this country. Pretend it is Obama’s birth certificate and then you can get yourself more involved because after all that was so much more serious (sarcasm alert)
     
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