But Anders you do the same thing when you say abortion should be legal up to 14 weeks. What is obvious is that at conception a new human life starts. A new human life does NOT START AT 14 WEEKS...but at the beginning. So what it does not look like a nine month old in the womb...it nevertheless is a living human being. Stand up for the unborn conception to 14 weeks!!!
You love to run from posts don't you? You hate when anyone gets you against the wall. I believe peoples opinions can change on abortion. I am the one who believes that a fathers opinion counts. YOU DON'T. YOU SAY THAT MEN DON'T HAVE A SAY....NOT ME. But don't feed me some bullcrap...opinion on how women feel who have had an abortion...WHEN YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH IT. You have no clue and you never will. As far as punishment. Had the laws been different and had been just...then I would have taken the punishment as given by the law. I had a hand in killing my unborn...but I did not act alone. No murder would have taken place had there been no doctor...to do the actual killing. No doctor no clinic no killing. I take responsibility...yes but it was not a one woman show. If you want to reduce prostitution and crime regarding it....you don't just go arrest the prostitutes...you also go for the pimp or madame. There are a lot of people involved in the abortion industry...but you pro-aborts don't see this..
That America is not a monotheocracy where Christians get to decide what is right and wrong for all. That we are a free society not shackled by the dictates of religion.
I actually did not mean it should be legal at 14 weeks. But it would be much better if it was illegal at 14 weeks than what the law is now. As it is now, babies - perfectly normal healthy ones - are being killed, and there is nothing illegal about it. I am not saying an abortion at 13 weeks is not bad. But an abortion several weeks later is so much blatently worse. I just think pro-lifers would be more productive in advancing their cause if they tried to focus on banning abortion after 14 weeks. I definitely think abortion is WRONG before then. But just because it is wrong does not mean we criminalize it. I believe only the very worst things should be criminalized. So perhaps I do not want to impose my moral determination on other people when the fetus is only 8 weeks, but at some point in the pregnancy the line should be drawn. At 19 weeks, it is no longer about me pushing my moral beliefs on you, but women committing murder. One hardly needs any form of religion or speculative ethics to see that a 19 week old fetus is a human being.
Including me. But none the less when the abortion debate is framed as a religious issue then the government has no choice but to practice the separation of Church and State. I think to overturn abortion those of us against it have to come up with a better plan of attack that leaves religion out of the equation.
I think abortion is wrong at anytime in the pregnancy. I think different people will have different views on where any cutoff point should be. But none the less, until some consistence is agreed upon and religion left out of the decision... I just see no change happening.
Show me the place in any of our legal historical documents where the term separation of church and state appears. So let me get this straight...you think abortion is a horrific practice and immoral...but you want it legal.
I still think there should be restrictions on abortions after 9 weeks. Mandatory ultrasound viewings, and a limit on the number of abortions a woman is allowed to get, for example.
Anders Hoveland said, What is worse about it? Is it worse to kill a six year old than a two year old? Its either a living human being at any time or not. How can you make compromises on a life of another person? Advancing the cause for "certain unborn" in the womb? Your going to pick the ones that should go to save more? Pro-life is about just what it states. We are pro-life about ALL UNBORNS IN THE WOMB. All of them...not some. What compromises does the pro-choice side make? They still would have abortion legal. Why not? Anders do you want abortion illegal or not? You seem to be all over the place here, sorry. I don't get your position. What do you think the very worst things are? Then you are pro-choice. You want no legal protection for the unborn. You are just like they are. So so sorry to hear this. I never got your position before. Wow. Your position is like theirs immoral, inconsistent...I don't think you really know what you believe. wow.
You are in there camp Anders, their camp. You even want to put limit on abortion...which means you want it legal. How did I miss this? LOL - - - Updated - - - You say thing in one post and something that counters it in another.....LMAO
There obviously is none. So what is your interpretation of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"? Abortion is wrong and it is my opinion it should be illegal... but not on the basis of religion. To make abortion illegal because Christianity is against abortion frames it in a religious tone. This IMO makes the argument open to being struck down on the basis of the First Amendment. - - - Updated - - - Through your lack of understanding of my position you display ignorance. Typical.
I still think it should be illegal after 16 weeks. When I say "16 weeks", I do not really mean that exact point in time. I would be fine having it illegal at 12 weeks. Somewhere around there, between 12-16 weeks. I do not "want it legal", I just do not want to make it illegal. And I think there is better chance of making abortion illegal after 16 weeks if pro-lifers focus on that first. Those babies over 16 weeks need saving, right now. Lifers need to be able to temporarily put any stubborn ideologies they have asside, and concentrate their focus towards saving the human lives that are obviously people. ..............-......20 weeks .................................... 18 weeks These fetuses are not "viable" yet. But if an induced labor abortion was performed, there is a good chance they would be born alive and squirm around for an hour after leaving the womb.
You call it lying I call it learning. People can and do change positions all the time. Are we not allowed to? And if you want to continue to bring it up I would like to discuss it. You can try and try to just sweep me away under the rug but I will continue to press the issue until you debate it with me. You cannot silence me as much as I know you want to Whaler.
YOU ARE A PRO--ABORT Anders. You do not want protection for the unborn...so sad. I thought you were pro-life. You are all over the board on weeks and times. I won't post the inconsistencies in your position as not to embarrass you...but they are there. Darn...I was absolutely duped by your other posts...LMAO
If you want to try to make abortion illegal on 8 week old human lives, I am not going to fight you. They are moving, after all. I am just going to concentrate my effort on saving BABIES.
Of course your not..your position is not consistent...not in any way. You are NOT SAVING BABIES. Only the ones you think are saveable. You say abortion should be legal until....???? And they are not even viable when you say abortion should be illegal. Your criteria???????? Unbelievable.
Well there are plenty of babies that need saving, particularly in third world world countries where they are born impoverished and even orphans. http://thirdworldorphans.org/ http://www.worldorphans.org/
Your dishonesty is showing, you posted both contradictory posts within minutes of each other. Debate what with you? You already admitted I am right. If you now want to flip flop on the issue spell out specifically where I am wrong. Why would I want to silence you? You are your opposition's best little soldier.
Well first you must prove that a fetus matches all of the qualities needed to be considered an individual human person, which another user pointed out in that thread that you had not. I am my opposition's best little soldier? What does that even mean? I think you may need to go back to English class Whaler.
Fact is, some orphans are in greater demand than others. When russia started closing its doors to foreign adoption, it created shortages in America. http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/abortion-mentality-factored-into-russias-adoption-ban If there was no shortages of orphans in the USA, why would American families be importing so many from Russia?
I'm pretty sure there are still 500,000 children in the foster and adoption systems in the US at any given time. There is no shortage of kids who need a home here. Hmm, maybe because people are picky and most adopting families are white that want a white (usually male) infant who has no history of health problems? That doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of children in need of adoption. Just because they are older than 3 or 5 and have some health issues or they are of a darker skin color than peach, doesn't mean they are somehow damaged 'goods' like society makes them out to be.
You're just trying to shift your own guilt onto others. "If there hadn't been a doctor available..." "If there wasn't a handy clinic....". Just get a grip on it and accept that it was a decision you made, and thousands of women made the same decision when there weren't any "handy" doctors or clinics, so you could have also. You're blaming society for not stopping you from making your own choice, when society could not have done so anyway. Society COULD NOT have stopped you if you were determined, and society CANNOT stop any other woman who is determined.
Again with the heartlessness and blood thirst of the abortion promoters. It is disgusting! The truth is that most women would not have abortions if they were illegal. Would some women? Sure. Some small number of any group would do something stupid and illegal.
The truth is that legality doesn't much affect the number of abortions performed. That has been proved to you repeatedly. The only thing that is affected is the safety of the abortion procedure, meaning that unsafe abortions cause women's deaths. Now here is where you tell us that they deserve to die.
