Fully developed? No baby is fully developed. Even children are not fully developed. That baby in the video is NOT fully developed. If you took away the oxygen tube, and took him out of the incubator, he would die within 60 minutes, a couple of hours max.
One more time: I am not talking about premature babies being assisted to survive, I am not talking about a baby that is six months developed, and I am sure as heck not talking about babies that are about to be or are already born. I am talking about a fetus that has not developed a functioning brain, which does not even begin until 5 weeks. Face it a fetus that is 5 weeks old is not a person, no matter how much you want to play with the words person, baby, human or fetus, the science speaks the truth as to which is which, so it should be science (the medical community) that descides when it is acceptable to terminate a fetus or when it has developed into a person and is no longer an option, not you, me or any organization that is fighting for one agenda or the other on the issue.
I will admit that a 5 week old embryo is (probably) not a "person", but that still does not mean it is not violence.
It goes beyond that, even the staunchest of abortion promoters here have admitted, after I gave them no choice logically, that abortion is homicide! - - - Updated - - - Actually you yourself have admitted that abortion is homicide in another thread, sooooooo...
HAHAHAHA "recanted" yeah right! You admitted that my point was valid and now you find yourself caught in a myriad of lies in the numerous other posts you have made where you directly contradict yourself! Translated your post reads "of course I admitted it, it is blatantly obvious, but I cannot continue on my crusade against unborn children having admitted it, so I have to try to un-admit it". This is just too easy.
I recanted what I said about abortion being a homicide in light of another poster presenting evidence that a fetus does not meet the definition of an individual human being or a person. If you want to argue about it shall we take it back to that thread instead of here where it is off-topic?
Casper said, Well shouldn't a woman have the right to decide what happens? Does she own her body or not? And if you say she doesn't...when does she not get to decide what happens? You keep bringing up this brain at 5 weeks.....and the fact that it is not human..not a person...is worth nothing. So when does that object in the womb become a 1. human 2. person? Please be exact...because this is a life and death issue.
For pro-lifers this is a case that two wrongs never make a right. For pro-aborts this is a case that any wrongs don't matter. For them...2+2 can equal 5, if you want it to. For them rape could be considered ok....even moral. For them abortion is nothing violent...the dissection of the unborn...alive at any time in the womb is nothing. The fact they might feel pain...well who cares right? The fact is rape is a violent act. The victim at least most the time can fight back somewhat. The unborn in the womb...has no place to go...and its a laughable moment for the pro-abort side...they know this and still don't care. For a woman to have to endure a violent rape...a wrong perpetrated against her...to them turn around and do the same thing to the newly created life...is a wrong. Two wrongs never make a right...even if someone is hurting. Its then double the wrong...double the emotional trauma.
5 weeks is very early... It might be a human being but "person" just sounds a little too sophisticated... I think there are at least some short interval of pregrancy where abortion is wrong, but should not necessarily be criminalized. I think there should be some very small choice extended to the mother to make certain moral determinations when it is just too ambiguous. I think it's a baby by 18 weeks, and a person by 16 weeks. 14 weeks seems like a good time to ban abortion, but I would still support other restrictive laws (ultrasound) earlier than that.
Person and human being are synonymous. Your argument here sounds a lot like the "it don't look nuthin like me at 5 weeks" arguments of the trailer park liberals.
But then there is the Unborn Victims of Violence Act that CLEARLY says that they are a person, then there are a couple dozen or more state fetal homicide laws that clearly state that a fetus is a person. But then there is the coup de gras, the common sense obvious fact that a human being is a human being regardless of his or her stage of development.
I don't think that's necessarily the case. I do, however, think it should be very concerning that human beings can potentially be denied "personhood" and effectively be stripped of all human rights. It is eerily human-shaped at just one month. By 18 weeks it looks just like a baby. I think visual appearance should at least count for something. In any case, the creature is already moving around by 9 weeks.
Oh it is neccessarily the case. It is more than concerning, it has far reaching potential ramifications that could eventually affect us all. Could it possibly be human shaped because it is a "gasp" human? I do not beleive visual appearance should count for anything. That is dumbing down the issue and we should be better than that.
The problem is, that's exactly the argument pro-choicers try to use. It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that a 19 week old fetus is a person. It looks like a baby and its moving around. But pro-choicers try to intellectualize their way out of the obvious.
and yet there has never been a conviction of a person causing the death of or injury to a fetus where the mother has not been harmed, nor has there been a conviction where the fetus has been under 21 weeks of gestation. The Unborn Victims of Violence Act is CLEARLY a secondary item based on the woman not giving consent for the procedure/attack upon herself. It is also states the following and as such is irrelevant to the abortion debate.
So you think abortion should be legal until 14 weeks???????? And YOU THINK? What about what science has to say? Most abortions happen in the time period you give Anders. Why support ultrasound...before 14 weeks if that is when you think abortion should be banned. Wow, did not know you were pro-abort Anders wow. So its a person...then a baby? Oh Anders wow. You say...seems like a good idea? Man oh man.
But this makes no sense because your pro-choice abortion remember. You think its a good idea to ban abortion at 14 weeks. You don't want protection for the unborn until then. That is pro-choice.
Why are you paying any attention to someone who has never, and will never, have an abortion? Remember, YOU claim that if someone hasn't had an abortion they have no right to an opinion on it..... - - - Updated - - - [
Discuss what? You lied, and you admitted it. I just think it is important to know mwho does and does not have any credibility here.
Oh no....I am playing devils advocate. I believe men should have rights when it comes to their biological child. Pro-aborts don't. For them its a womans issue. But based on society...and the fact that your pro-abortion and want it legal....YOU DON'T THINK THE BIOLOGICAL FATHER HAS RIGHTS. I think abortion is a human rights issue. You say the man should have no say...YOU WANT TO SILENCE HIM...HIS OPINION DOES NOT COUNT. I disagree. No one unless they have had an abortion knows what if feels...in regards to the emotion and physical. That does not mean they should not have opinion. But for someone to state as to the nature of the act and going through it...no they don't know. And their comments about it should reflect that fact. If someone has just returned from the front lines of war.....and you have never been in their shoes...can you make a statement where you equal yourself to that particular experience? NO. And so it is with abortion. Can you guess...or have an opinion on it? Sure. I believe that it takes two to get pregnant and once a child is conceived it is half the fathers...as his DNA is half of the childs biological identity. I believe that if the child is born he should contribute to the emotional and financial raising of the child. Playing devils advocate here....society and pro-aborts believe it is the womans body and her right. That the child is totally hers to decide as far as its fate. The father is no where to be seen. So take that a step further....if he does not matter, then the woman should take full control of both emotional and financial...her body her decision..her child.
I posted : Why are you paying any attention to someone who has never, and will never, have an abortion? Remember, YOU claim that if someone hasn't had an abortion they have no right to an opinion on it.....""" And you came up with all that crap? GAWD! Get some control..... And don't forget, you think abortion is murder so please turn yourself in, ya know, do the right thing....
