About the Holocaust

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by stan1990, Mar 11, 2019.

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Do you agree with the thoughts expressed in this thread?

Poll closed Apr 10, 2019.
  1. Yes

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  2. No

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  3. Maybe

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  1. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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  2. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for one of the most calm, credible and rational Posts I have read about this topic at this forum.

    I have already submitted several comments on this topic and only have time to make a few observations on what you have already written.

    Re:
    I'm sure that laws vary from country to country but I know of only 2 archeological digs (1), (2) that have done at Treblinka and neither found any evidence that about 850,000 people had been killed, buried, dug up, burned and reburied as per holocaust mythology.

    The first and most credible independent study was done by Richard Krege and a team from Australia in October of 1999. They used augers to take soil samples and a GPR (ground penetrating radar) machine for 6 days in all the areas alleged to be mass graves and found nothing to support the holocaustian myth that about 850,000 people are buried there in mass graves..

    Later, a study was done by the mainstream Smithsonian Institute. They, too found no mass graves and only found a few human remains that could have been from any era.

    Few people stop to think how utterly impossible it would be to make about 850,000 human bodies completely disappear by crudely attempting to burn them with railroad ties in pits.

    Finally, Air Photo Evidence disproves Allied propaganda - Holocaust Industry myths by showing no ground disturbance at any location in Europe occupied by the Germans during World War Two (3).

    You may be surprised to know that there are far more people who do not believe the profit driven myths generated by the corrupt Holocaust Industry(4) than have been professionally deceived by residual Allied propaganda and outrageous Holocaust Industry lies.

    It is equally revealing that the holocaust is the only event for which people in about 16 countries can be imprisoned and/or fined.
    As you must know, the truth does not need to be protected by draconian censorship laws. A lie, on the other hand can only survive with the aid of government mandated censorship laws.

    Thanks,




    (1) “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363

    EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves."CONTINUED


    (2) "Treblinka Ground Radar Examination Finds No Trace of Mass Graves"
    https://www.historiography-project.com/jhrchives/v19/v19n3p20_radar.php

    EXCERPT "The team carefully examined the entire Treblinka II site, especially the alleged “mass graves” portion, and carried out control examinations of the surrounding area. They found no soil disturbance consistent with the burial of hundreds of thousands of bodies, or even evidence that the ground had ever been disturbed. In addition, Krege and his team found no evidence of individual graves, bone remains, human ashes, or wood ashes." CONTINUED


    (3) Air Photo Evidence
    http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndaerial.html
    EXCERPT:
    "The Bottom Line

    To this day there is no air photo evidence to support the alleged mass murder of the Jews at any location in Europe occupied by the Germans during World War Two. Further, air photo analysis refutes the claim that the 'Nazis' had intended, at whatever time, to keep events in the alleged extermination camps secret. In many cases the air photos provide clear proof that some of the events attested to by witnesses, such as the destruction of the Hungarian Jews or the mass executions at Babi Yar, did not in fact take place. We may hope that the release of Soviet air photos dating from the time the camps were in operation will shed further light on these issues. The fact that these photos have not been published to date may already speak for itself. That the photos in western hands were altered in order to incriminate Germany, and were first published by the CIA, is also very significant indeed." CONTINUED


    (4) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

    EXCERPT “Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.

    Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth.

    Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."

    - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

    - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED
     
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  3. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Your response is full of false stereotypes and erroneous comments.

    To start with you have never met me and clearly do not know what Zionism is nor have you spoken to any Zionist. Your uses and references as to what Zionists think in your abover references are YOUR subjective stereotypes and assumptions of what you think "Zionists" think. You prescribe all Zionists your subjective projected thoughts and therein lies the first issue I have with you. You are quite busy telling me what I and others think and you have never met us let alone know what we think. You do though presume to think you know what you think and it reflects your very erroneous and simplistic and I might say stunted and rigid concepts of a highly complex conflict which shows you do not understans the history, orgins or people of the Arabian peninsula and rely on your assumptions by reading web-sites and the opinions of people with specific political agendae to deny that certain people of the Middle East who are NOT Muslim should be able to have their own nation as do Muslims.

    I will finish this next post.
     
  4. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I will now repudiate specific comments from Mircea

    He stated: "From the Zionist point of view, you're either 100% on-board or you're a racist anti-Semite."

    No that is not my opinion or the opinion of others who may be Zionist. That is Mircea's deliberate misrepresentation fo our opinions. You will note he quotes no words from any "Zionist". This is because he fabricated this opinion. Next, even if he could quote a "Zionist" using such a mentally challenged and stunted assumption it would only reflect their own individual opinion. However the above comment makes it clear Mircea came on this board to advance negative sterreotypes on ALL Zionists to incite hatred of them.

    He then states:

    "Therein lies the hypocrisy of their position."

    No therein lies proof he never quoted the opinion of anyone but himself and then projected it on all Zionists.

    He then advanced these false stereotype beliegs on all Zionists and I quote from him:

    "They levy embargoes on Palestine prohibiting them from getting weapons and military equipment, and then scream, "Resistance is Futile!" "

    "...they castigate the Palestinians for resisting and when the Palestinians resort to the only means available to them, they're excoriated as "terrorists."

    In regards to the above false projects many people Zionist and non Zionist have opinions. Zionists do not all have one identical opinion nor do for that matter Israelis, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Palestinians. Of course not. I lived in Israel. I volunteered in Israel. I witnessed terrorism first hand and cleaned up body parts unlike Mircea and I know for a fact he has never been to Israel or the West Bank or Gaza. I know that for a fact because I have been face to face with Palestinians of all kinds including those who would just as assume kill me and never would any of them use the language or concepts he does to define me. His words drip priviliged, sheltered, arm chair sofa, far removed from the conflict rich boy assumptions about others.

    To start with most of us who have lived there and in particular Israelis and Palestinians do not engage in the idiotic simplistic rigid stereotypes written in Mic's response. People in an ancient on-going conflict long since stopped using such idiotic words or phrases. No Israeli has ever stated Resistance is futlie". That is a pathetic misappropriation of a phrase from Star Trek used by an alien people who have a hive mentality and collective thought process and it reflects someone who can't differentiate what he watches on t.v. from reality.

    Let me make it clear to Micrea how full of it he is for using such misappropriate words. If he were to witness a terrorist attack and like I and others had to put body parts in bags and try identify who they came out of he would know this crystal clear-a body blown up whether its Palestinian or Israeli blows up the same way and smells and handles the same way when put in a body bag. We don't need someone like him telling us what label to put on that body bag.

    I will finish this next post.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  5. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Next Micrea made these comments:

    "If you know Grimm's Law of vocalic and fricative shifts, the maps make sense.

    If you look at maps from Renaissance Era, it's Falastine. If you look at maps from the Medieval Period, it's Filistine or Philistine (depending on the language).

    Yeah, as in Philistine.

    They say, well those people aren't there any more. No, they're still there. Their DNA is still there. The fact that they speak Arabic and not the Phoenician dialect of Aramaic doesn't alter the fact that their DNA still there.

    The Bactrians are still in Bactria. That was an old kingdom that occupied parts of present-day Afghanistan and Pakistan.

    The fact that they now speak Turkic languages and not Bacrian doesn't alter any realities.

    That would be like saying Jews aren't really Jews because they speak Yiddish or Modern Hebrew instead of Classical Biblical Hebrew (which is very different than modern Hebrew)."


    To start with:

    The shrinking Palestinian map is not even used by the PA or Hamas anymore because its been repudiated so many times. Like many things posted on the internet, people like Micrea believe if its repeated enough times, it takes on truth. The fact is it has not, can not, and when someone engages in it to advance their arguments they show their ignorance. I myself will not waste my words on it other than to provide this:

    http://www.thetower.org/article/the-mendacious-maps-of-palestinian-loss/
    https://middleeastfacts2015.blogspot.com/2015/05/countering-shrinking-palestine-maps-scam.html

    Next. In regards to his other comments its clear he has no clue when the term Palestinian began to be used to describe creating a nation where Israel, Jordan, the West Bank is today. He also has no clue and can not grasp the fact Greeks may have used a name to describe a physical location in the Middle East did not mean it was a nation.

    He also clearly can not comprehend the significance, origins and relation between modern and ancient Hebrew, Arabic, Armaic or Semitic languages let alone the dna or familiar lineage of the Middle East peoples and relies on being a Middle East historian expert based on reading certain web-sites.

    Mic has no clue what a Jew, Arab, Beduin, or anyone else is. Hey Mic just because the Game, HHH has a big nose doesn't make him any of them.

    Get back to me when you can figure out what the difference between a nation, a civilization, a tribe, a sect, and a geographic location are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
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  6. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    I've had very unpleasant experiences with people from this poster's country of origin. One openly expressed, in a reply to me on a forum, his wish that all Jews just die. None of the other posters on the thread, some of whom I considered friends, even tried to argue against his views. @Mircea 's opinions are mainstream there.

    Well, his country of origin was allied with the Nazis during WWII. Downplaying or denying the Holocaust is one way to exonerate family members for the murder of 400,000 Jews there.
     
  7. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's hard to say how many Germans really believe the myths generated by Allied propagandists and the fraudulent (1), (2) Holocaust Industry since according to an ADL study(3) only about 1/3 of the world's population believes the impossible lie that about 6 million Jews and 5 million others were systematically murdered in an industrialized manner.

    As time passes more independent research is done and more holocaust stories are exposed as the lies they are(4) it appears that more sensible people are thinking for themselves.

    The following is a very brief list of thousands of outrageous lies that were used to prosecute and murder countless Germans. While they seem and are ludicrous, these and other lies are the sort of fodder that is poured into the heads of impressionable schoolchildren and gullible defenders of holocaust lore:

    EXCERPTS:
    • Moshe Peer's astounding Holy Shoah tale - Gassed six times by the Nazis and survived!! - Claims people were murdered in gas chambers at Bergen-Belsen

    • William Lowenberg's astounding Holocaust tale - Had a magic thirst-quenching pebble, did not drink water, survived on his saliva for 3 years

    • Yankel Wiernik's Holotale - Babies torn in half, woman leaps 10 ft barbed-wire fence, guards nail inmates' ears to walls, jews roasted on giant outdoor hibachis

    • Testimony from the Eichmann Trial by Leon Wells - Dug up and burned bodies, used bone-grinding machine, ate lunch on top of corpses

    • Irene Zisblatt's incredible Holocaust tale- Ate and retrieved diamonds from feces, had 2 post-sterilization children, weighed 40 lbs when liberated

    • Rivka Yosselevska's absurd Holocaust fable - Escaped biting jew corpses, witnessed geysers of blood” CONTINUED(5)




    (1) "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

    EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


    (2) "HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"
    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298

    EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”
    ”CONTINUED



    (3) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

    EXCERPT “Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.

    Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth.

    Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."

    - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

    - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED


    (4)"Could there be anything more twisted than these Holocaust fantasists? How more and more people are making up memoirs about witnessing Nazi crimes"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...le-making-memoirs-witnessing-Nazi-crimes.html

    EXCERPT "Unfortunately, despite all these examples, publishers are still wilfully selling suspect memoirs based on the Holocaust and the war.

    No doubt there will be more books of this type. With publishers fighting it out to sell the latest tale of World War II derring-do, or Holocaust misery, it seems unlikely this is a genre that will die out.

    Anybody reading these books should stop and ask themselves whether what they hold in their hands is, in fact, true." CONTINUED


    (5) “Dozens & Dozens of the Most Outrageous Tales of the Holocaust”
    http://wolfgangrudolf.blogspot.com/2016/12/dozens-dozens-of-most-outrageous-tales.html
     
  9. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is the opinion of others who may be Zionists and you need only cruise social media sites and a variety of periodicals and publications to see that is.

    Here you go...

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/anti-zionism

    With the beginnlng of the intifada-the Palestinian uprising against Israel in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank-in December 1987, campus anti-Semites had a seemingly endless supply of material to justify their claims of "Zionism is racism" and "Zionist imperialism." Many of these anti-Israel statements were more than mere criticism of Israeli policy, which would, of course, be legitimate; they were anti-Semitic because they questioned Israel's right to exist, singled out the Jewish state for harsh criticism while ignoring anti-Israel terrorism, condoned international Zionist conspiracies or reflected other double standards. Anti-Jewish sentiments were often mixed into anti-Israel speeches or written pieces, showing that many of the critics were not seeking a political discussion, but were intent on spreading hateful stereotypes. Anti-Zionism became an acceptable way to express anti-Semitic sentiments.

    As everyone can see, anyone who opposes anything Israeli is automatically labeled as an "anti-Semite" whether they are or not.

    Questioning the right of any State to exist is not anti-anything, it is merely questioning.

    I have often pointed out the hypocrisy of the US position vis-a-vis Kurdistan and Baluchistan.

    The US supported Pakistan's independence from India.

    Then supported East Pakistan's (now Bangladesh) independence from West Pakistan.

    The US supported the division of Czechoslovakia into the Czech and Slovak Republics.

    The US supported the independence of Slovenia, Croatia, Kosovo-Metohija, Montenegro, Macedonia and Bosnia.

    The US not only supported, but instigated the independence of the Province of Panama from Colombia.

    And, of course, the US supports Israel as an independent State.

    Asking why the US supports Israel but not the Kurds or the Balochs is not anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic or anti-Israel. It's merely a question and your attachment of knee-jerk meanings to it is a mental and character flaw on your part.

    The typical logic is that Jews have suffered, but then so have the Kurds and Balochs. so we are compelled to ask why one group gets special treatment over others.

    And, the Kurds were there long before other Semites known as Arabs came to Iraq.

    That also compels us to ask why the term anti-Semite in the first place. Arabs are Semites, too, just as the Sumerians, Akkadians, Elamites, Kassites, Gutians, Mari, Nuzi, Mitanni, Canaanites, Amorites and others were and their languages are Semitic.

    If you're wondering why I didn't mention Babylonians, it's because no such people existed.

    If you don't like being stereotyped, then you should do a better job of policing your own.

    I have not been there, but I was in Egypt for six weeks training the Egyptian Army.

    I broke down the Yom Kippur War. We did 2 weeks classroom training and then 2 weeks of half-days in the classroom and in the field and then 2 weeks in the field.

    They would have won had it not been for the fact that Meier threatened Nixon with the use of nuclear weapons unless Nixon gave Israel money, weapons, and most importantly, satellite and aerial imagery of the battlefield.

    It was the satellite and aerial imagery that turned the tide.

    Once the Israelis could see where the air defense radars and fire direction control centers were located, they engaged in RACO (Rear Area Combat Operations) sending units around in behind to destroy the radars and FDCs and that is what allowed Israel to make effective use of its aircraft and attack Egyptian anti-armor units.

    Once the anti-armor units were decimated, Israeli armor units could hold their own.

    And, I did that on the orders of President Ronald Reagan.

    I'm guessing you're going to label him as an anti-Semite now.

    How do you know? Are you like omnipotent and omnipresent?

    I know what body bags are. I was in Panama and Iraq.

    Still, you're missing the point. You fight anyway you can.

    What would you call the bombing of the King David Hotel or the murder of Count Bernadotte and his driver or the murder of British Army officers?

    Those were, um, "terrorist" attacks, too, you know.
     
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  10. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    I was specifically referring to Germany. Under pressure from Israel, German laws prohibit any forensic analysis of any sites.

    There's no question people were cremated at Auschwitz. The question is why they were cremated.

    We're told they were cremated after being gassed with Zyklon B. The evidence points to being cremated because they were Typhus victims, which was standard practice on 1940s Earth.

    Forensic analysis would end the controversy.

    I get the distinct impression that many believe the Truth will somehow diminish the Holocaust.

    I don't see that at all. It's heinous no matter how you look at it, but the opposite -- maintaining the Lie -- does far more harm than good.

    Propagandists always prey on people's lack of knowledge.

    Few people know how many hours it takes to cremate a body.

    Fewer still understand the process of oxidation.It's called oxidation because it requires Oxygen. I'm sure if they strapped 4 railroad ties to each victim and burned them above ground they might be successful.

    I talked to a German man who helped the Brits burn and bury the bodies at Belsen. I suspected the grave markers were over-estimated by a factor of 10, meaning if it says 8,000 bodies lie here it's really 800 and he wasn't the only German, or Brit or American to say that. He said when the Brits came, they dug a pit, threw some bodies in, dumped diesel on them and lit them up then started digging other pits. Hours later they'd go back to the first pit, throw some more bodies in and burn them. They just kept doing that.

    I was actually a couple hours west of Belsen but worked and trained there. Where I was, Teufel's Moor -- Devil's Swamp -- got its name because the locals would lead Gestapo patrols out into the swamp and kill them. The northern Germans weren't very hip to the NAZI thing. There was a Gestapo headquarters in Paderborn and when the Brits took over, they turned it into a NAAFI, like the US AFEES or post exchange (base exchange if you're a jet jockey). I couldn't get enough of the cheese and onion sandwiches. Anyway, I'd be shopping for clothes and wondering what became of the Gestapo officer that sat behind a desk in that room. He probably went to the US under Operation Paper Clip.

    That's exactly right.

    Oddly, every Holocaust survivor I've ever met was at Auschwitz. Seriously, and I've met a few dozen over the course of my life. None were from Dachau or any of the other camps.


    They are exaggerated. The myth of 4 Million dying at Auschwitz has been debunked.

    If you look at census figures, records of transport trains, the size of the camps, etc, the numbers just don't add up.
     
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  11. Esdraelon

    Esdraelon Well-Known Member Donor

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    There's a growing tendency to call the actions of the IDF against Palestinians - almost always in the aftermath of some savage attack against Israel's civilians - as "genocide". They never quite explain why the numbers of Palestinians have grown continuously since 1948. They also don't have much to say when their rhetoric about Palestinians dying from hunger is shot in the ass by current data on Palestinian obesity being their number one health crisis.
    A day is coming when multiple nations are going to form a coalition and invade Israel. It will succeed and massive numbers of Israelis will perish. The world will be quite pleased with itself for finally ending the nasty little "Zionist Entity"
    Approximately three and a half years later, the whole world will see, with no way to deny His reality any longer, Christ, return to His chosen. In that day He will personally fight for them. Those who rejoiced in their murders will be utterly destroyed. All I can say to the Palestinians who hate Israel with all-consuming hate is that when they see Israel overrun and destroyed they really should get busy enjoying themselves because they are seeing the clock ticking on their last three years as a people.
     
  12. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We have a very courageous woman in Germany. Her name is Ursula Haverbeck. Just weeks after finishing a two and a half year prison sentence for “Holocaust denial,” 92-year-old Ursula Haverbeck has been convicted again by German courts, this time for an interview she gave in 2018 that affirmed her view that Jews were not systematically killed during World War II and that the gas chambers at Auschwitz are a politically motivated lie.
    .....
    For Germany’s oldest prisoner, it’s clear that she will not cower before the wrath of the Jewish groups directing careerist bureaucrats. It’s in the German state’s reputational interest to stop tormenting Haverbeck, yet the West’s religious fear of debate over what occurred during the Second World War continues to take precedent over all other concerns.

    ....
    Numerous high-ranking Third Reich officials, soldiers and concentration camp workers have disputed the Holocaust narrative since 1945, including Wehrmacht officer Otto Ernst Remer, Auschwitz employee Thies Christophersen, Erich Priebke, Leon Degrelle, and SS soldier Karl Muenter, the latter who died before his “Holocaust denial” trial began at the age of 96.

    Read the full article here:
    https://thegharqadtree.com/ursula-haverbeck-die-auschwitz-luge/
    ----
    Too much is at stake; too many lies would be exposed, not just about Auschwitz, but through-out the entire war and thereafter. It is better to keep up the lies and condemning the Germans, as they have been well conditioned to believe the lies and admit their guilt.
    I suspect, the German Governments know full well the truth but have to go along with the lies or else!!

    At any rate, the German spirit is well and alive...
     
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  13. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who are the children of Satan? Doesn't it say somewhere in the bible? Or some other famous person? It can't be the Christians!
    I just hope, IF he comes back, he's not a racist!!
     
  14. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Auschwitz was transferred to Germany? When?
     
  15. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Mircea you took a quote from a site that stated:

    "With the beginnlng of the intifada-the Palestinian uprising against Israel in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank-in December 1987, campus anti-Semites had a seemingly endless supply of material to justify their claims of "Zionism is racism" and "Zionist imperialism." Many of these anti-Israel statements were more than mere criticism of Israeli policy, which would, of course, be legitimate; they were anti-Semitic because they questioned Israel's right to exist, singled out the Jewish state for harsh criticism while ignoring anti-Israel terrorism, condoned international Zionist conspiracies or reflected other double standards. Anti-Jewish sentiments were often mixed into anti-Israel speeches or written pieces, showing that many of the critics were not seeking a political discussion, but were intent on spreading hateful stereotypes. Anti-Zionism became an acceptable way to express anti-Semitic sentiments."

    You then stated and I quote, "everyone can see, anyone who opposes anything Israeli is automatically labeled as an "anti-Semite" whether they are or not."

    First off you are not "everyone". you speak for yourself. The device of puffing yourself into a plural identity to try make your opinion seem more legitimate is pointless. Not only are you not "everyone" but even if the entire world agreed with you that would not make your comment any morel legitimate. This pretense you have that more than one person having the same opinion making it more legitimate is illogical. The contents of what you present including the reasoning you use is what makes what you say either logical or illogical.

    Next what I actually see are these words you ignored because they make quite specific that the writer was NOT AT ALL stating any criticism of Israeli foreign policy is anti-semitic and if fact they specified when they apply that description to that it would not be the false generation you claimed:

    "Many of these anti-Israel statements were more than mere criticism of Israeli policy, which would, of course, be legitimate; they were anti-Semitic because they questioned Israel's right to exist, singled out the Jewish state for harsh criticism while ignoring anti-Israel terrorism, condoned international Zionist conspiracies or reflected other double standards. Anti-Jewish sentiments were often mixed into anti-Israel speeches or written pieces, showing that many of the critics were not seeking a political discussion, but were intent on spreading hateful stereotypes. Anti-Zionism became an acceptable way to express anti-Semitic sentiments."


    The words contextualizing when anti Israel criticism WAS IN FACT challenged for being anti-semitic was in regards to:

    1-the expression, "Zionism is Racism';
    2-questioning Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state
    3-anti-Jewish sentiments mixed in with anti-Israeli speeches/written pieces spreading hateful stereotypes of Jews

    The writer was quite specific in NOT generalizing and in fact said: "Many of these anti-Israel statements were more than mere criticism of Israeli policy, which would, of course, be legitimate;"

    So you provide a quote which in fact makes it very clear the writer was NOT stating all criticism of Israel was anti-semitic and ignored what it actually said and misrepresented it.

    Its a stale device and you are stale in the usual canned scripts raving and ranting about Israel.

    You do not criticize Israeli foreign policy. You in fact question the right of Jews to have a Jewish state and when you do, you engage in comments that insult and stereotype Jews for being Jews. You use an anti-semitic double standard in that you do NOT and have never questioned the right of a Muslim to have a Muslim state, a Christian a Christian state or any other person with a collective identity the right to their state, only Jews. That is what makes what you state anti-semitic.

    When you hold Jews to a different standard than other people on this planet that is what makes your comment anti-semitic. You don't accuse Muslims of being racist for having Muslim states. You never have come on this board and criticized dhimmitude and how Muslim states define non Muslims as inferiors. You never in your life challenged a Muslim state for its use of Africans and Fillipinos and Pakistantis, Indonesians, Malays, Mauritians, Senegalse, Bangladeshi as cheap slaves. You never came on this board and challenged Morsi in Egypt calling on Muslims to attack Christians. You never spoke a word when Erdogan and Assad engage in genocide against Kurds or in Assad's case anyone who he deems the wrong kind of Muslim. You don't challenge Iran's genocide of Kurds or discriminatory treatment against Sunni, Bahaii or Christian. You don't challenge the inhuman treatment of Amadiyah Muslims in Pakistan or the slaughter of South Sudanese Christians by Northern Muslims. Why not?

    This is why you have no credibility. You can't actually find a comment that states ANY criticism of Israel is anti-semitic because none exist. The best you can do is misrepresent one that shows your representation is false.

    I call it out as deliberately false because you and Jazz and the same handful of extremist anti Israelis trot it out again and again. You deflect from your inability to debate by trying to slur all Israelis and all Jews or anyone who might support Israel's right to exist with one idiotic, simplistic stereotype you created and project on them.

    Get this clear, the fact I am a Zionist and lived in Israel and volunteered there does not mean I think the thoughts you idiotically try assign me. You do not know what I think. You do not know what I stand for. You never have been to the West Bank or Israel. You use simplistic rigid stereotypes because its clear you have never lived with conflict or terrorism and understand what it means. Have you ever spoken to an Israeli or Palestinian? Clearly not. You presume you do from sitting thousands of miles away posing yourself as an expert based on sound bites from web-sites written by people who are not even Muslim. You even know where the crap comes from you read?

    Get back to me when you actually want to ask what I think or believe. Until then if you think you speak for me or anyone, Israeli, Jewish, Palestinian, Muslim, shut the phack up. You do not speak for us. My issues are not with Palestinians and never were. They are with people like you. People who exploit conflict for their own agenda of fermenting hatred.
     
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  16. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for your very informed and informative comment.

    You're right in that Israel and the Holocaust Industry prohibit forensic or archeological examination in areas which allegedly hold the mass graves for which countless innocent Germans were tortured, "tried" and subsequently murdered in sham, Soviet style show trials.

    However, that doesn't rule out the existence of Air Photo Evidence(1) that shows that the alleged mass graves containing millions of people do not exist. In other words, the mass murder of millions as alleged by the profit seeking Holocaust Industry did not happen and perhaps the greatest war crime of WW 2 was the series of Nuremberg "show trials" themselves that relied on torture, perjury and outright lies to murder countless German soldiers.

    Re:
    I would add that even fewer people who actually believe holocaust myths realize how much fuel is required to burn the human body which is about 75% water.
    Recently released Soviet ledgers from Auschwitz show hat there was only enough coal delivered to Auschwitz to cremate about 67,000 people during the entire duration of Auschwitz's WW 2 operation.
    At Treblinka, it is claimed that railroad ties were used to burn the approximately 850,000 bodies however it would take 4 - 6 railroad dies per person for even a very crude cremation. Who moved these millions of railroad ties and where did millions of railroad ties come from at a time when Germany was short on everything?

    Re:
    You're right, the numbers don't add up because they were entirely fabricated for political purpose and financial extortion.
    According to Jewish sources, the world's Jewish population grew by about 4 million during the WW 2 era(2). This could not have been possible if about 6 million Jews had been murdered as per holocaust lore.



    (1) Air Photo Evidence
    http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndaerial.html
    EXCERPT
    "The Bottom Line

    "To this day there is no air photo evidence to support the alleged mass murder of the Jews at any location in Europe occupied by the Germans during World War Two. Further, air photo analysis refutes the claim that the 'Nazis' had intended, at whatever time, to keep events in the alleged extermination camps secret. In many cases the air photos provide clear proof that some of the events attested to by witnesses, such as the destruction of the Hungarian Jews or the mass executions at Babi Yar, did not in fact take place. We may hope that the release of Soviet air photos dating from the time the camps were in operation will shed further light on these issues. The fact that these photos have not been published to date may already speak for itself. That the photos in western hands were altered in order to incriminate Germany, and were first published by the CIA, is also very significant indeed." CONTINUED


    (2) "Was there Really a Holocaust?"
    https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/wasthere.htm

    EXCERPT "The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish population was 15,688,259. The Almanac's figures were supplied by the American Jewish Committee. Next the Jewish-owned New York Times of February 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so rapidly over the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people?"CONTINUED
     
  17. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Mircea seldom will I take the time to respond in detail as I do but I believe when I read hate mongering anti-semitic bilge I speak up.

    You stated:

    "I have often pointed out the hypocrisy of the US position vis-a-vis Kurdistan and Baluchistan."

    The above reference means what? The reference to yourself other than a display of narcissistic pretense means what? How does it provide any credence to the subjective and false misrepresentations you make? Your subjective opinions of anything are just that-subjective and quite frankly your quoting yourself is arrogant.

    The US's recognition of certain states you consider inconsistent. You find them inconsistent because in your construct anyone seeking sovereignty should be treated identically. That reflects your ignorance as to international law nothing else. In international law, an area of land that was NEVER a part of any state is not recognized as a piece of land that was part of a state. You can't grasp that and you won't. You have made that clear in previous comments. You can't grasp the origins of the conflict of the West Bank. You can't understand that it was never part of a nation and so if it is tpo emerge as its legal origins are not established the same way as land part of an existing state that wishes to change governments. I am not here to educate you on the law particularly since you deliberately ignore the difference and engage in a fiction that there was a nation of Palestine and Palestinians prior to Arafat defining that phrase for the first time in 1967 to refer to his failure to seize Jordan and redefining himself as a Palestinian. Arafat was and died an Egyptian. He ridiculed the term Palestinian as a collective national identity until 1967 as did all his followers. They only reinvented the name once they failed to kill King Hussein of Jordan and seize Jordan. They were not interested in any Palestinian state. Go read what they claimed to believe in. Or do your selective scripts forbid that.

    You keep talking about the US recognizing nations. It shows you really have no clue about the history of the conflict. In fact the US did NOT recognize Israel. Russia recognized Israel long before the US did. In fact the US Secretary of State and the Joint Chiefs of Staff threatened to engage in a coups to replace Harry Truman if he recognized Israel. In fact it was Eleanor Roosevelt the UN High Commissioner for Jewish Refugees who took on the entire US congress at the time and talked them into recognizing Israel. Go read Truman's biography. You clearly have no clue about what Ms. Roosevelt had to do as the entire world turned its back on Jews in Palestine as German Nazi collaborators, specifically former Gestapo and SS took over and led the governments and police forces in Egypt, Syria, and Iraq and led a war to wipe out Jews in Palestine assisted by British and French military officers leading their armies and air forces.

    It was in fact dirt poor Jews released from forced camps in Siberia sent to Israel by Stalin that provided enough people. It was in fact Czechoslovakia who was the only country that provided assistance to Israel. Israel came about because of dirt poor poorly armed peasants and Jews from the West and righteous gentiles who felt it their Christian duty to stand by Jews facing a second genocide. It was in fact Muslims in Jordan who donated land to Jews and were killed for doing so. It was in fact Druze ansd Beduin and Palestinians who fought side by side Jews against Nazis in the desert wars in Africa that came to their aid. You know nothing of what the true story was of why Jews had to fight to create a country because the Arab League of Nations, led by the British, French and former Nazis did not want a Jewish state interfering with their agenda to control oil in the Middle East.

    Next the US as is the case with every country on this planet may or may not recognize nations' governments as legitimate. Recognition of any sovereign government is necessarily political in nature and therefore inconsistent.

    You pull political events completely unrelated and try jam them all into the exact same equation as the one in Palestine and all that does is show your ignorance as to the difference in each and every conflict you try jam into one simplistic catregory.

    Further no one on this board ever has stated that inconsistent approaches to foreign policy are anti-semitic as you falsely stated when you stated: :Asking why the US supports Israel but not the Kurds or the Balochs is not anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic or anti-Israel. It's merely a question and your attachment of knee-jerk meanings to it is a mental and character flaw on your part."

    You throw in comments or positions neither I or anyone have argued as if we argued them and then accuse me/them of having used them as a "knee jerk reaction". How? How if I never stated such a thing could it be anything other than your false projection and this is why I now call you out again for falsely projecting statements you accuse me or others of having stated or believe in.

    Then you engage in stereotype anti-semitism and in a supposed discussion about criticizing Israeli foreign policy slur all Jews with yet another one of your negative comments blaming all Jews for having the supposed same opinion:

    "The typical logic is that Jews have suffered, but then so have the Kurds and Balochs. so we are compelled to ask why one group gets special treatment over others."

    What typical logic. Go on finish your slur. Which Jew ever stated our suffering was greater than anyone else's? That is your anti-semitic belief and its followed up with holocaust denial suggesting Jews were gassed for only sanitation reasons. You are nothing more than a vile anti-semite. You think because you are anti Israeli-it gives you the right to stereotype what we Jews all think or believe or degrade and deny the holocaust.

    Then you stated some more ignorance:

    "And, the Kurds were there long before other Semites known as Arabs came to Iraq."

    You have no clue who Kurds are, when they came to live where they did, because if you did you would no the above is not only false but not something any Kurd would say. ARab refers to people descended from the Arabian peninsula. It later became changed in content tby Gamel Nasser of Egypt to refer to anyone in an Arab speaking nation. In fact a true ARab today is probably a descendant of the remaining Beduins, no one else. No Kurd claimed or claims to be a Beduin and neither does any Jew, Christian or for that matter Muslims of the Middle East, only Beduins do. Beduins do not follow the religions of Judaism, Christianity or Islam. They have their own animistic traditions.

    Kurds are in fact Muslims rejected as Muslim by other Muslims but they are in their own spiritual world as much Muslim as any Muslim.

    Not all Arabs are semites. In fact Beduins are not semites. In fact the majority of Muslims on the West Bank came from outside the West Bank and are descended from non Palestinians.

    Also why you are compelled to ask why non existent people are anti semites is anyone's guess but once again you falsely assume I and other Jews or Israelis or Zionists or what ever other boogy man is in your head has a problem understanding who were semites in past history so you trot out names you read on a web-site.

    Let me also make this crystal clear-if you want to pose to me you spent 6 weeks training the Egyptian Army let me make this clear-its no wonder they lost and you maje excuses and can't even spell Golda's last name properly for a military expert lol.

    Yoyu stated: "I broke down the Yom Kippur War. We did 2 weeks classroom training and then 2 weeks of half-days in the classroom and in the field and then 2 weeks in the field."

    Your comment makes no sense and no one in the military would use such a term to explain training let alone make idiotic excuses for losing a war. Also you claim to have done this on behalf of Ronald Reagan.

    Lol. You claim to have been in Panama and Iraq. I call you out. Had you been to those places you would not use the false analogies you do.

    You asked me:

    "What would you call the bombing of the King David Hotel?"

    I would call it an act of terrorism.

    You asked me what I wouldcall the orthe murder of Count Bernadotte and his driver or the murder of British Army officers?

    An act of terrorism.

    You want to ask me about terrorism and you were in Panama, Iraq and Egypt?

    You have know idea of the US military role in training Noriega and why he was taken out? You have no idea what Chaney's private mercenary army did in Iraq do civilians? You have no idea what Nasser did to Egyptians and Palestinians? Really?

    You aint very subtle Bubba. Yah I also know what the confederate flag is and I went through something no American who knows what I do would ever state as you have. You pose. I call you out as a poser.
     
  18. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I can honestly say I have never met an American soldier and I know quite a few, who ever denied the holocaust. Gen. Eisenhower deliberately had has Engineering Corps film the liberation of the camps to serve as eternal protection against the holocaust being denied. So did the integral service of the US Armed Forces at the Nuremberg Trials. Israelis all know the role the US has played in defending our existence and educating the world about the holocaust.

    Any individual posing as a US soldier and who denies the holocaust is past approach. Harry Truman's memoirs spoke of a man who came to confront his own anti-semitism in recognizing Israel. He and Eisenhower and Truman were integral reasons for Israel's existence. This poser trying to hide behind his supposed uniform makes me want to puke.
     
  19. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I am calling out Mircea who is hiding from me. I want him to finish what he started with his attempt at holocaust denial and posing as an American military advisor in Egypt prior to the Yom Kippur war. As most people should know the Soviet Union NOT the US were the military advisors to Egypt prior, during and aftefr the Yom Kippur war as well as Syria. Henry Kissinger wad the US Secretary of State calling the shots on Middle East Policy for Nixon. In fact Sadat the leader of Egypt at the time created a false information campaign that he had asked 30,000 Russian military advisors to leave but he never did and US and Israeli intelligence were well aware of this.

    At that time, Russia and the US were heavily involved in a world cold war and Iraq, Egypt and Syria had close support from the Societs so much so the Russians threatened to directly send military in on the ground in the Yom Kippur war and/or use nukes. The full extent of the nuke exposure was not known but Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the UAE stayed out of the conflict because they were more concerned with Russia than Israel.

    The actual memoirs of former US civil service employees in the US State Secretary and Israeli military are there for anyone to follow or the memoirs of former Soviet military. To suggest the Americans were advising Egyptians to prepare for the Yom Kippur war side by side 30,000 Russian advisors is a crock of crap and I want Mircea to finish what he started and explain what division he claims to have been in.

    I also want him to explain how being in Panama even comes close to the conflict in the Middle East and I want him to explain any other military endevour he was in with the supposed US military forces.

    What I know first hand is that repeated US military intervention prevented the Soviets from nuking Israel and in those days Turkey and the Saudis as well as Jordan, the UAE and Iran did not want Soviet intervention in that sector and looked to both the US and Israel to act as a counter-foil to the Soviets.

    What we also know is Moishe Dayan took the brunt of the blame for Israeli intelligence failures leading up to and on the day of the Yom Kippur war and there is plenty of analysis and studies as to what happened and far more complex than what Mircea repeated from a web-site and anyone can go read for themselves by reading in fact Russian and Israeli military journals or even Sadat's memoirs. Sadat was quite frank and blunt about the involvement of Soviet military advisors, their heavy reliance on them and the Soviet failure to grasp the limitations of Egyptian tank squadrons and lack of logistic supply lines.
     
  20. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I wish to address the original thread theme.

    1-. No survivor of the holocaust or historian who teaches about the holocaust compares the suffering of any people who denied in it to the suffering of others. In fact the opposite-its taught to explain why other genocides have also happened and that any genocide is unacceptable. It is in fact holocaust deniers as a tactic, who deny the holocaust and try downplay it by comparing it to other genocides to deny its unique and specific features and to downplay its moral consequences using the false anaogy that since there are multiple genocides the plural number of them makes them no big deal. It is holocaust deniers who turn all genocides into pissing matches that devaluates them all.

    2-Holocaust deniers use the pretense of claiming the holocaust was falsely reported to then deny Israel's right to exist
    as a Jewish state. Denying the holocaust and using that denial to suggest Israel should not have been created as a refuge for those who fled from the holocaust, European persecution and persecution from Muslim laws in Muslim states is anti-semitic in that it attacks Jews for wishing to be free of state persecution. It creates a double standard that no Jew is allowed to have a state but anyone else can. That double standard is what creates anti-semitism as well as the references to ALL Jews as having the same opinions or all lying about the holocaust or denying the holocaust.

    3-The tactic on this thread was to see holocaust deniers whose agenda is to piss on Israel for existing as a Jewish state claim anyone that debates them or challenges them unfairly calls them anti-semites. Their use of holocaust denial and their double standard of not questioning any other people for having a state makes their arguments anti-semitic. Their arguments do not deny Israeli foreign policy, they in fact deny the right of Jews to have their own country. That denial of country is necessarily anti-semitic and so is any equation that defines Zionism as racist an anti-semitic attack. Zionism has nothing to do with the Jewish religion. Zionism in fact was created by atheist Jews not religious Jews. A mino element of today's Zionist Jews use the Bible to refer to their beliefs and engage in anti-Palestinian beliefs and are represented by extremist parties in Israel. So are extremist Palestinian groups in the Israeli Knesset on the other extreme. Both equally hate and use their respective religions to justify division and hate. In fact the majority of Israelis are existential and apolitical in regards to religion. In fact the strongest supporters of Israel are Christians not even Jews. In fact the majority of Israelis and Palestinians do interact peacefully out of necessity and do not hate each other and wish their was peace.

    4-Those who came on this thread to try downplay the holocaust and ferment hatred towards Jews and Israel and try wip up a fight between Palestinians and Israelis or Jews and Palestinians here is my message-try me.
     
  21. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very few people around the world deny that the holocaust happened in that Communists, Jews, resistance fighters, genuine criminals and other real or perceived threats to National Socialist Germany were interred in work camps where some were executed but most died of typhus etc.
    On the other hand, the vast majority of people who know anything about the holocaust do not believe(1) the grossly exaggerated residual Allied propaganda - Holocaust Industry narrative about "industrialized mass murder", homicidal gas, steam or electrocution chambers, human skin lampshades and other grisly fables generated by the fraudulent & corrupt Holocaust Industry(2), (3).

    If the fraudulent Holocaust Industry would knowingly cheat holocaust survivors and deliberately defraud the German government, doesn't it make sense that it would lie about body counts and other details for the more effective & profitable marketing of its product?

    Additionally, unless you're so naive as to believe that only the "other" side used propaganda, you would know that the filming/production of recently liberated camps was done not by the Engineering Corps but by US propagandists in the OWI (Office of War Information) and Hollywood movie producers(4) whose grisly excesses have long been debunked. For example, Billy Wilder's sensationalized "The Death Mills" features the long debunked lies about human fat soap, human skin lampshades, human skin pocketbooks and numerous fictitious killing contraptions.
    It should be noted that the mission of the OWI was to help lift Allied morale at home and in war and at the same time demoralize the Germans with lies about mass murder programs and fictitious atrocities.

    So what does America do with its war time propaganda when the war is over? It continued to demoralize and humiliate the German people via Hollywood and similar fictions(5) with the same lies about mass murder crimes and fictitious atrocities while hiding acts of Allied mass murder & Allied atrocities(6).
    Meanwhile the avaricious Holocaust Industry employs these same propaganda lies to enrich itself and work with Hollywood to deceive Americans too gullible to realize that when the victors write the history, truth becomes the first casualty.







    (1) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

    EXCERPT “Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.

    Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth.

    Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."

    - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

    - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED


    (2) "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

    EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


    (3) "HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"
    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298

    EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED


    (4) "The Hollywood Directors Who Filmed the Liberation of Nazi Concentration Camps"
    https://hyperallergic.com/426644/lamoth-filming-the-camps-the-holocaust/

    EXCERPT "George Stevens, John Ford, and Samuel Fuller, best known for their work in Hollywood, all documented the Allied liberation at the end of the war.

    But during this period of war, they were acting less as artists than as functionaries of US propaganda and information efforts, working for the US Armed Forces and Secret Services.CONTINUED


    (5)"Could there be anything more twisted than these Holocaust fantasists? How more and more people are making up memoirs about witnessing Nazi crimes"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...le-making-memoirs-witnessing-Nazi-crimes.html

    EXCERPT "Unfortunately, despite all these examples, publishers are still wilfully selling suspect memoirs based on the Holocaust and the war.

    No doubt there will be more books of this type. With publishers fighting it out to sell the latest tale of World War II derring-do, or Holocaust misery, it seems unlikely this is a genre that will die out.

    Anybody reading these books should stop and ask themselves whether what they hold in their hands is, in fact, true." CONTINUED



    (6) “Buried Alive Screaming In The Night: German POW Survivors Describe Eisenhower’s Extermination Camps After WWII Had Ended”
    https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2018...ers-extermination-camps-after-wwii-had-ended/


    EXCERPT “The Western Allies deliberately murdered approximately 1 million disarmed German POWs by means of starvation, exposure, and illness. This Allied atrocity was first publicly exposed in 1989 in the book Other Losses by James Bacque. Bacque estimates in Other Losses that the victims undoubtedly number over 790,000, almost certainly over 900,000, and quite likely over a million. The prisoners’ deaths were knowingly caused by army officers who had sufficient resources to keep these prisoners alive. Relief organizations such as the Red Cross that attempted to help prisoners in the American camps were refused permission by the army. “CONTINUED
     
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