Ala. Gov. signs tough immigration law

who cares about what immigration was 200 hundred years or more ago , this is now and we can not afford them , illegal slavery is another problem , made easier by a porous border , many immigrants live in ghettos and work their way up through the income brackets , I do not feel the least bit bad about sending them back , let them revolt in their own countries

 

It's not racism. It's an effective solution to a real problem. Illegal aliens do take jobs from citizens, they do use our social services, and they do send a lot of money out of our economy (billions) back into Mexico... and it's all done ILLEGALLY.

Illegal is illegal. That should be easy to understand. Alabama, Arizona, and Georgia have stepped up to the plate. They are leading the way in what really needs to be done. Our Federal government has failed miserably at protecting our borders (yet another reason why a Conservative president is needed in 2012!). Our current Federal government tries to punish states for doing what they need to do. It's not that the current Fed gives a (*)(*)(*)(*) about Mexicans (Holders Mexican gun experiment should be evidence enough), what they care about is staying in line with an ideology and securing votes.

I think some of you folks have dramatic ideals about what will happen once these laws are enacted. I get the impression that you envision SS like police marching the streets harassing anyone who isn't White. That is a total croc. Most deportations will result as a consequence of a run in with law enforcement... be it a traffic stop or whatever.

All Arizona had to do was announce it's new laws... and illegals fled in droves.

You guys really got to stop playing the race card. It's detremental to real progress.

 

So you don't have your ID with you... do you speak English exceptionally well, or do you stumble and search for words, and look at the cop with a "No comprende" look on your face? Do you have a social security number, and can you recite it if asked? Can you tell the officer where you live and work in a convincing fashion, or do you just stare at him/her with a blank look on your face?

In simple terms - do you act like you're a resident, born in the USA? Or do you act like someone who "just got off the boat"?

Unless you give the police probable cause, they're not going to bother you.

 

i have to carry my drivers license to drive a car, and every time im stopped im asked to show it. having it in my wallet is hardly something i consider a hindrance to my every day life. you people that complain about having to carry papers are absolutely shameless in how far you will go to defend illegal immigrants. anyone that takes such an argument seriously should have their head examined. we get it, you are absolutely 100% for illegal immigration, but please use arguments that are somewhat credible.

did you complain about having to carry lunch money when you were a child?

 

your argument is ludicrous. i get carded when i buy liquor, should i complain that im being detained for nothing?

 

all of which fit in your back pocket right next to your wallet.... do you have an argument that actually has merit or are you going to grasp for straws throughout this whole discussion?

 

if you carry them you're an idiot. pockets were designed to alleviate problems like this.

 

yes, enforcing law is absolutely racist.... i love the new modern definition of racism. it allows people without an intelligent argument to argue anyway.

 

i dont think anyone here is against legal immigration. why are you against legal immigration?

 

resident aliens already know that they're required to have their documents on them at all times.

 

funny you should say that because there are a lot of illegal Irish in Boston.

 

then they would know their SSN even if they didn't have it on them. even if it's a kid that hasn't had it drilled into their head yet, it can be looked up if he knows his birthdate and/or his parents names.

 

Really? Lets lay this out for a moment.


First they are not enforcing the law, they are making new law. So stop with that silly line.


Next up, we need to look at the reasoning behind this movement. What is the goal? What is the reasoning? What is the motivation? Why do people want to card others? What do they hope to achieve? Who do they want to card?


This issue is not an issue of legality, and a principled stance in favor of the rule of law. Thousands of laws are broken every day, and many of them we don't care about. We don't care about jaywalkers, even though they are breaking the law, because we don't feel the law is important. Now I am not comparing the 2 issues, I am just using it to show this is not a case of doggedly upholding the rule of law, something else is behind it. And even if it were, we can change the law to offer amnesty or have open borders, but the right opposes that. Why? If the law were changed, they would no longer be breaking the law, but the right opposes that, which makes it clear it is not simply about upholding the rule of law.


So now we need to determine the actual objection underlying this issue. Why do right wingers care? Why do people who pay lip service to free markets, oppose the free movement of labor? That is fundamental to any free market, and yet something overrides the lip-service to free markets. Why do right wingers want to keep Mexicans out, and kick out the ones that are already here? That invariably comes down to the idea that "Mexicans are taking American jobs. Those are jobs Americans can be doing." Ignoring the validity of that statement for a moment, what does that imply? It implies that Americans are more deserving of jobs than Mexicans. That is at best xenophobia and at worst racism. That doesn't even take into account the fact that many of those jobs would be outsourced rather than going to Americans. That the rest of Americans with jobs, would be hurt by the increase in the cost of goods, thereby lowering their standard of living. However, that is another issues, separate from the racism issue.


So what is debatable about this point? It is racism, or xenophobia if that pleases you better. Either way this issue comes down to bigotry. It is a law that targets Mexicans, in order to remove them from this country, so that more deserving Americans(an inherently racist concept) can have the jobs they currently hold. All of this in direct opposition to the free market, which the right so often loves to champion. Which means clearly racism trumps the desire for free markets. What is debatable about this issue? Unless you can offer an alternative explanation for why right wingers are in opposition to the free market on this issue, I will assume it is down to racism or xenophobia.

 

I agree! It never fails to amaze me how, when all else fails, some people love to play the race card!

It's not "racism", it's called "nativism" - the belief that people who are native to a country have precedence over immigrants. Racist policies in immigration can be seen in the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, and the Canadian Chinese Immigration Act of 1923 - both specifically written into law to keep one particular ethnicity out of the respective countries.

However, if some people think that this is racism towards Mexicans, then I suggest an alternative policy - that we adopt immigration policies that are a mirror image of Mexico, tit for tat so to speak. I found this little article about Mexican immigration law somewhere, it seems like a perfect solution --

This seems effective and fair to me!

 

Zenophobia will be embraced again ,Americans will have to die in large numbers but it will be back.

 

Why am I not surprised that in a post advocating for xenophobia, the word xenophobia is spelled wrong!!

 

Whether you're liberal or conservative, amnesty is a terrible idea -- at least if it means giving illegals citizenship. If amnesty is defined as giving illegals green cards or visas, that's more feasible, but there should be some sort of penalty involved -- otherwise it's a slap in the face to legal immigrants.

There is surely racism among the Right about this issue, but it doesn't detract from how actually having a system of holding people accountable needs to be implemented.

Again, these laws might be partially inspired by bigotry, but the end result is determining who's legal and who isn't. The law would have to force all Mexicans out if it was actually racist.

 

Wow, Mexico's system sounds pretty effective. I wonder why all the activists here never mention how our neighbor does things....

 

I never really was into the" Hellraiser "movies

 

The people of Alabama have spoken.

If you don't like it...don't come here.

 

Wrong again. They are enforcing current law the feds are refusing to enforce.

Explain to us what motivations you perceive have to do with the law the people voted on? What goes on in your head that thinks your perceived reason for enforcing current law makes any difference?

Because unlike you we actually have thought this out. The very fact you equate jay-walking with foreign nationals illegally invading our country shows how far off the deep end you are.

Exactly how stupid are you? You think because a nation wants its citizens who live here and pay taxes here to have access to jobs in this country means its racist? My God that has to be the nuttiest excuse to allow illegal immigration I have ever heard.

What is the point of a nation in your eyes if we allow everyone to come here? What is the point of sovereignty? You really need to go back to school.

That is why we allow legal immigration. Aside from the stupidity of your racism charge, where in the law does it say only illegals that are not white are subject to this law? Where does it say only White Americans are allowed to take jobs in America? Of course it doesn't say that. You are nothing more than a typical far left nutball who throws out the race card because you have nothing else while ignoring the very basis for having a nation in the first place.

You are just as big of a bigot. Actually bigger because you refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty of America as a nation to give first crack at jobs within its borders to legal citizens. Your bigoted views of people on the right and national sovereignty is nothing to be proud of.

Another dumbass and ignorant statement. Where is your evidence all illegals are Mexicans? Where is it? Prove your lie.

Where does it say in free market economics which you clearly have no idea what that is does it state free market is defined as disregarding national sovereignty? Where is that? Show us please.

 

What are you talking about? This thread is about a new law, the governor of Alabama just signed. If you are going to deny even the most basic facts, how can we have a productive debate?

I explicitly stated that I was not equating the 2. So either you have trouble reading, or you are purposely lying to defend your absurd position.

Yes, or as I said xenophobic if you prefer that. It isn't complicated. You believe one group is better and more deserving than another group, what about that confuses you? What is impeding your ability to recognize this simply fact?

I don't know, what is the point of the nation? The nation is a relic of the 17th century. It's purpose was to defend the people of a region from invaders. It sprang up in reaction to the invention and usage of cannons in warfare. Before the nation-state existed, people had kingdoms and empires, and they protected themselves by hiding behind walls. The nation sprang up, and set borders were put into place to defend against the armies of the time(who had cannons) in a manner that was more productive than walls. However, that was meant as a protection against armies with muskets and cannons, and borders can no longer protect us from threats, because one man with modern explosives can do as much damage as an army. So what is the point of the nation-state in the modern world? It seems like a relic of a past time, that conservatives across the globe cling to, because that is what conservatives do.

That is why we should offer amnesty and have open borders. That way they would be legal immigrants. Since this is simply about the rule of law, and upholding the rule of law is your only goal, there is no reason you should oppose that.

And you are incapable of opening your eyes, and seeing reality. If you want Americans to have jobs over other groups, that is xenophobic. Simple really. I have a view of the position taken, which is supported by the evidence at hand, not bigotry.

This is one of the stupider arguments in the right wing arsenal. I cannot prove that every illegal immigrant is Mexican, however the vast vast vast majority are. Over 90% that is for sure. Saying that has nothing to do with racism, is like saying literacy tests to vote in the 19th century weren't racist, because some white people couldn't vote, and their grandfathers hadn't either. Silly.

Do you understand anything about economics? Seriously, even a little bit? Because my statement is not debatable. A fundamental element of any free market is the free movement of labor, capital, goods, services, etc. If you impose upon the free movement of labor, that is imposing upon the free market. You understand what a free market is, correct? Quite simple. There is a demand for Mexican labor, Mexicans laborers supply it. If you stop that from happening, you are intervening in the market, therefore imposing on the free market. What about that confuses you? I am stunned by how many simple things you have been confused about in this post.

 

your argument is intelligent, so i hope my response here doesn't come across as arrogant but.... i admit i am right leaning but certainly not a "right winger" as im conservative about some things and liberal about others. im offended that you think im a bigot because im not. i understand that an illegal immigrant that earns money here, also spends money here and is an asset to our economy. you're assuming that if that illegal didn't have a job im automatically imagining it will be a white guy that has it when actually, i think more along the lines of a legal Mexican having the same job. therefore, how does that make me a racist? lastly, since when are Americans a race? i thought America was a nation of many races which would completely fly in the face of me supporting legal Americans making me a racist.

before we discuss benign laws like jaywalking, id like to first start with the basic concept that the jaywalker is on the street legally. im hardly a racist and im certainly not a bigot. this would be a very boring place to live if everyone held the same beliefs and ideals. so how am i a racist and a bigot just because i agree with enforcing legal immigration again?

 

Over 12 Americans a day are murdered by illegal aliens.

Secure the borders, now.

 

Crossing into a country without permission is a major concern for any country. Identity theft is also a major concern for a country. Laws protecting workers is a major concern for every country. These three things are done almost every time a person crosses with out permission.

Why is this ok with many of you? If you got your identity stolen and credit ruined would you just say "oh well it happens they needed those documents more then I did?" If one of those people sneaking across was not an immigrant but a drug cartel enforcer and kills a few people are you just going to say "oh its cool that doesn't happen too often." Or if a large company makes their workers work for a few dollars a day with no protections or safety equipment are you going to say "oh well they needed a job its ok?"

It makes no sense at all that anyone would be against stronger border protection and enforcement of immigration laws. The American people have a right to be concerned when no one knows who is crossing into their country. We have a vested interest in insuring that our identities are protected. All of us should be concerned for the unfortunates that are basically treated as slaves by huge corporations because they have no protections being illegals.