Anti-Zionist Jews aren’t Jewish?

Is it possible, as anti-Zionists insist, to separate Zionism from Judaism? Is Zionism mere “politics,” as opposed to Judaism, which is authentic “religion”?…

If by Zionism one means the Jewish attachment to the land of Israel and the dream of renewing Jewish sovereignty in our place of origin, then there is no Judaism without Zionism. Judaism isn’t only a set of rituals and rules but a vision linked to a place. Modern movements that created forms of Judaism severed from the love of the land and dream of return all ended in failure.

By the time the state was established, anti-Zionism had become peripheral in Jewish life. Aside from a vocal fringe, most ultra-Orthodox Jews made their peace with a Jewish state. Israel’s Declaration of Independence was signed by representatives of almost the entire spectrum of the Jewish community–from ultra-Orthodox to Communists. That document attests to the legitimacy, within the Jewish people, of the state created by Zionism.

In recent years, there have been renewed attempts, especially on the fringes of the Diaspora left, to create a Jewish identity severed from Israel. But with nearly half the world’s Jews living in a thriving Jewish-majority state, that debate has long since been resolved. If in the past one couldn’t separate the land of Israel from Jewish life, today the same holds true for the state of Israel.

So if you don’t accept the idea of a Jewish state, you’re not a Jew.

During an appearance at Duke University last fall, Halevi filled in the point. He said it was OK for American Jews to criticize Israel about its religious practices at the Western Wall, but not about its security practices. And again, anti-Zionists are not part of the Jewish community.


http://mondoweiss.net/2018/06/liter...398529965&mc_cid=c51b6ed414&mc_eid=f3a5aceec7

Yet again we have a Zionist who insists only Zionists are Jews and criticism of the security of Israel makes you a none Jew. It occurs to me this creates some interesting paradoxes if you actually think about what is being said.

1. Those who are practice Judaism are not necessarily Jews?
2. Antisemitism can only be claimed by Zionists.
3. Zionists claim to speak for all Jews and the actions(political) of Zionist's must therefore represent the actions of all Jews.


Interested in what non Jews, especially those who thought they were Jews but under this new definition are not, have to say about it?

 

I don't think Jews care.

They wake up, do their thing, and go to bed regardless, just like anyone else.

The only people bringing up Zionists and Semitism seem to be people who dislike Jews for whatever reason.

I work with a jewish girl, I know she is devoted to her religion but only rarely do we discuss it and she never talks about any devotion to a piece of land in Israel.

Why would she even care, she doesn't live there, has never been there, has no connection to it.

I'm sure she has an opinion the same as we all do but that's it.

 

real Jews oppose the Satanic ideology known as Zionism:


https://www.google.com/search?q=ant...3s_bAhUI64MKHTKeDXgQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=635

 

As we can see, the person bringing this up is a Zionist.

 

And that is somehow wrong in your opinion?

 

No but it contradicts your statement

 

I wasn't the one who brought it up you know.

I just responded to this thread.

 

No I realise that, it is however a view that is increasing amongst some Zionists. It is important to the increase of antisemitism and even the meaning of that word.

 

he's wrong.

Jews existed long before Zionism and if Israel was to cease to exist, Jews would still exist long after.

as would Judaism.

 

It occurred to me whilst I was writing the opening post how I have been accused of not being Welsh by Welsh Nationalists because I think Wales is better off as part of the UK, not exactly he same but a similar attitude.

 

1. All who practice judaism are jews. ALL religions have sects with differing beliefs and interpretations.
You know like sunnis and shia. Both are muslims but trying to get either to acknowledge the others beliefs is rather difficult.

2. Antisemitism, which is a euphemism for jew hate, can be claimed by any jew subjected to it. it can also be claimed by others since it is usually rather blatant. I do agree that the term is mis and over used.

3.Zionists claim to speak for Israel - the only jewish nation on earth. They don't claim to speak for all jews. Hell within Israel, you have zionists who are politically diametrically opposed to each other.


As for the ultra zionist members of the current administration, I don't think it is at all surprising that they should admonish their fellow jews living on "foreign soil" to not criticize the brutal security measures they engage in. OTOH, I've never known a jew to shut up when told.

 

according to Jewish law and Orthodox Jews, an anti-Zionist Jew is of course still a Jew.

only a secular extremist right-wing knucklehead would argue that being anti-Zionist voids one's Jewishness.

 

It should ALSO be said, that being a Zionist does not make one a bad Jew or a failed Jew.

Zionism is a political philosophy, one that the Rabbis argued about and continue to argue about to this day, as to its application to Jewish religious philosophy and logic.

 

seems they are









Look pretty authentic to me.

 

If they make Passover they're Jewish.

 

anti-Zionist Jews are still Jews.

Zionist Jews are still Jews.

the two are not mutually exclusive

 

Yes, something we actually agree on. Thanks for taking the time to comment on a subject we do not normally see you discussing.

 

Yossi Klein Halevi is in your opinion a secular extremist right wing knucklehead? I thought he was considered to be more left wing by american Jews.

 

I know that Israel and her supporters are making a strong argument that being anti zionist is antisemitism. According to them It is antisemitism because there is only one Jewish state in the world. Hence they argue if you do not agree with that you are antisemetic, believing that Jews unlike everyone else, they say, should not have their own state. It seems like this guy is doing a similar on Jews. I also do not think he is right about almost all Jews being zionists by the end of WW2 from what I have read. One example would be that if this was so then almost all holocaust survivors would have wanted to immigrate to Israel. In reality the vast majorities first choice was America and in the first poll it was a very small number who wanted to move to Israel - something like 14% as reported by this Israeli who researched it.

https://elsc.huji.ac.il/index.php?q=grodzinsky/files/grodzinsky_holocaust_81304.pdf

I have also read that until after 67 there did not seem to be much support for Zionism in the US. It was not a big thing. Apparently it is hardly mentioned in Jewish publications until that time.

Also I was reading only recently people talking again about prior to Zionism getting started the issue with Jerusalem was spiritual not feet on the ground.

 

Please define Zionist.

 

In this case the author of the article describes Zionism as,

So he is saying Judaism is Zionism and vice versa.

 

So anyone who recognizes Israel's sovereignty is a Zionist. Well then, count me that group.

 

so a Neo Zionist is one who wants Greater Israel - That is the land which was to have been the Palestinian State which Israel is taking for her own. In 1993 the Palestinians accepted Israel in 78% of their ancient homeland provided they were given the remaining 22% of their homeland as a viable congruous state. Although she originally agreed Israel will not do that and has carried on settling Palestinian land and taking their resources in particular water - the most basic resource of all. That you too?

 

Yes and no. Yes I believe that Gaza is apart of Israel. No, Gaza has no legal claim to it.

 

what about the West Bank? That along with Gaza was to be the Palestinian State. Gaza is still occupied and unable in any way to direct their life -basically a holding station for the people until they die one way or another.