True, land can be retreated from, the dead cannot be raised thou, wether you understand the Israeli position or not we still have one and would like it to be part of negotiations, by rejecting the "nominal" 67 borders I do not reject peace, I aknowledge the 50 years that have passed and seek agreement around that,a nd to be totrally honest, Jerusalem is not just a piece of land to bargen for, even if you persuide me as a secular it is - Israelis wont stand for it, once we got in,,,,,forget about it, I think that's the nature of the city since time began.
Hotly disputed by the Church of Scotland which owns up to being one of the original if not the main original propagator of such views due to it's archaic colonial nature. They believe that the return was a metaphor - God is not a landlord and more so that it is ridiculous to think for one moment that God would support the harming of another people and the removal of them from their homeland and subsequent treating of them as less than human beings which is what Israel has done. No one considering themselves a genuine Christian, could support such inhumane Imperial, Colonial treatment of another people. Sure Christians believe that God wanted Palestine ethnically cleansed of Christians because that is just about what has happened. God is an imperial colonial landlord who treats some human beings as not human beings and wants Christians to steal their land and resources and mass murder them till they leave. Of course that is God - very similar to the ISIS believe of God which will be why people are now calling Israel JISL. You can see The Inheritance of Abraham here to understand the distortions of religious interpretation by Christian Zionists and messianic Jews. This misbelief in the understanding of the bible began during the 16th Century when mass produced versions of the bible happened, started in Britain, though not the UK then, and moved to the US. It became strongly influenced by anti-Semitism. As for Jews ever having the land before - well yes they did and their closest descendants still live there as genetics show. They are the people being thrown off their land, having their resources like water stolen and being mass murdered by European Jews. They may, I cannot remember to what extent, have had some little kingdom in Judea for a couple of hundred of years but it was not called Israel as modern archeology has shown. It is also unlikely that there was any forced leaving. Most of the descendants of these ancient Jews still live there just like descendants of ancient people live everywhere else in the world. Obviously now JISL is removing them from their historic land and has been since 1948.
Genetic studies on a nation that was born from mixture to begin with wont give you any result, the assumption the original Israelites were ME is not certain by itself, besides the fact it is written the Israelis fled from Egypt mixed with other nation as they went to the desert - they pissed off God by mixing with others when they sat there and the Judea kingdom was scattered and mixed while in exile. to be Judean is to be a member of the tribe, there are written laws about that as old as circumsission is, you can be part of any "race" and be a member of the tribe and it takes alot more than 3 words and two witnesses to become a member. the tribe rules settle for a Jewish mother for example, the father can be non-Jewish (thou persuding a jewish mother to a non jewish groom could be harder to pass than God's laws) To say Jews poped into existance out of thin air and have nothing to do with the ancient tribe and kingdom makes no sense since there were always Jews around in recorded history, there sccatering fits the Bible story and Roman chronicals. The Arab conquest of the area also fit the Palestinian story, they say they are Arabs, not former Judeans, we assume some are, Many Israeli Jews exploit these events to abuse Palestinians for various reasons (IMO most from mistrust and hate, few for religous zeal reasons) but the Gov is still committed to Democracy and its not too late for an agreement, althou I dont know how to fit Hamas, PLO and Likud in the same pot.
'The Israeli Position'? You are claiming your government is speaking the Israeli view? They have moved off the scale to the right - don't deny much of the West is following but they are leading. Legally you have no rights to anything but pre 67 lines. It is not yours. Obviously when actors (the state of Israel in this situation) act - settling land, taking land which is not legally theirs, adding fundamental religion to the score, they must get their populace to agree to what they are up to and Israel does this the whole life of a person so Israeli citizens by the information they receive are likely to follow the Governments direction - and that does come from the very beginning of the creation of Israel - Uri Avnery has written about how early Jewish Israelis like himself who were not in favour of the way Zionists created Israel knew that even then what was being taught to the children in school was not the truth - that they could not say the truth - and that for a short time it was let out of the bag when Israel opened it's archives, quickly to close them again. (Some early dissident Zionists believed like Avnery in a two state solution and others like Buber to a one state solution more closely identifying with the ME than Europe.) Some Israeli's and often they are people born previously outside Israel in for instance the States or UK, do have a feeling for justice and do work for it but unfortunately as those who were there at the beginning and knew what really happened die, the 'peace movement' has sadly got smaller making it less effective. This has been made worse by the Arab Jews in response to their discriminatory treatment sadly finding a voice in the right as possibly within them was a way to sort it out. I think being born into a different situation you would see the situation differently. I think that if there is an 'Israeli' viewpoint - one viewpoint which is supposed to encompass all of Israel that has happened as a deliberate policy of your government and is not the action of a government acting to promote freedom of thought. Bennett said in his talk in the US last year that they are working on and waiting till it gets you all in fine agreement with his plans for the West Bank and I suspect you are pretty near there. No offence meant in this. It is my genuine belief.
More than one person has attempted to arrest Blair for war crimes, there is actually a reward for anyone who achieves it, and if Corbyn gets to be Prime Minister, Blairs lying ass will be on the line. Already Cameron is being questioned in Parliament about his actions by the opposition. Stop with the ridiculous idea that Israel (a nuclear power) is a "tiny besieged nation". Hasbara shrills just cannot get rid of that victim mentality. Even when they are the regional superpower, its still "poor poor little picked on us"
Genetics have shown that while there is a genetic relationship between all Jews, the Palestinians have the closest relationship to all Jews. They stand right in the middle. If there is any correlation between genetics and reality this research shouted out that the people with the closest relationship with the ancient Jews are the Palestinians which is exactly what the situation is everywhere else in the world. Scotland has the closest relationship with the ancient Picts. They used to be a strongly whatever the word is - work for converts and were very successful till Rome put a stop to it. Much of what is in the bible which was written centuries after things happened and so obviously suffers from Chinese whispers, is being confronted by historians and archeologists. I haven't said that. Some left, some were taken as slaves but it remains most stayed there. Of course the Palestinians have a close relationship to ancient Jewish history. That is one of the tragedies in what is happening. Western Jews may have a link but it is more like all Catholics thinking they belong to Rome or something. They intermarried. Genetics shows that. Most changed to Islam as a religion. Many of them secretly continued being jews. There has been research done which shows the strong relationship with ancient Jews through architecture and to families handing down the story that they are really jews in addition to the genetics - and sorry on this the genetics has won my belief. If all jews share some genetic indicators and the people at the centre of it and most strongly related to all the others are Palestinians ..... There will be no agreement unless people like yourself start seeing what needs to happen and work for it. Because what is happening to the Palestinians does not affect most Israelis, indeed most of them do not even see it and the ever growing pressure to stick to Government line, I do not think what is needed will happen unless under pressure of for instance BDS. It isn't an easy job and it is immensely more difficult now than it was in the 90's due to the way the Palestinians have been treated - that is the change from working for negotiations to the concept of Israel sorting it out by force. Some Palestinians have even joined ISIL. However there is still a possibility there and sorting out this situation could be the very catalyst in sorting out the bulk of the other problems in the ME.
Yup. On the clueless or wilfully compliant point you make, for me it must be wilfully compliant under the concept of UK security interests. Government ministers will have been fully briefed on the actuality, but since we in the UK are absolutely compliant to the US, and the US is the sponsor and protector of Israel, then it is obvious that Blighty will follow their lead, I think. In any event, successive British governments have supported Israel going back to the 1967 six-day war, if my memory serves me correctly. I'm waiting to see if Corbyn does win. Cynic that I am, I look at the sudden closing of membership applications to the Labour Party on the flimsy excuse that members of other parties are joining to rig the vote, and can't help wondering if the whole mechanics of voting in the election haven't been internally fixed by the Blairites. But I hope he does win. I certainly don't agree with all his views, but he would be a breath of fresh air in the British political scene which has become tediously stagnant and predictable and an American lap-dog these past several decades. Maybe I should move to Scotland?
Sure. I have time to waste on unpaid frivolous requests from people who can't be bothered do their own research. I'll get back to you with the answer in a couple of years, okay...
So predictably absolutely nothing, decades of British wars, invasions, bombings, now blatant violation of the Syrian borders and assassination of British citizens by the British government in a foreign country without the due process..... And instead of petitions against criminal PMs, criminal parliament, criminal Royal military the brits petitions against Israel. How about you starting a petition now against Cameron and the whole chain of the military responsible for the violation of the Syrian airspace and assassination of British citizens? Start it, sign it, promote it among friends, family, coworkers.... Hmm, on a second thought this sounds dangerous and you may even get beat up and spat on... The 2000-year old tradition of picking on Jews and/or tiny besieged state seems much safer and more fun and you can still feel very moral and proud of yourself lol
As many people who actually know what they are talking about have informed you, the holy land ownership is based on an enormous amount of scientific and historical evidence, of which the Christian Bible is just a small part. And not for the reason you mentioned in your strawman response either but due to it demonstrating that the land was indeed populated by Hebrew speaking Judaism-preaching Synagogue-going Jews, of which Jesus Christ was one.
As I already explained its being done but such is the persecution complex of Hasbara Shrills educated to say "poor me" at the slightest sign of danger, you clearly could not understand how it works! Israelis are better fighting little girls and women, and losing! http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/israeli-soldier-assaulting Not sure how there can be a 2000 year history of picking on Israeli's since Israel only existed since 1947, and as we know no matter how hard you wish to equate Jews with Zionists it aint the same thing.
lol those propaganda scenes wont help you, what threat does a boy with a "cast" on his arm can inflict to a soldier that took the effort to chase him up and down a hill ???, why did he chase him? that's not important to the CREWS of media that were there since the begining and obviously captured that as well gee I wonder if its a setup for RT and Aljazira crews ? No way ppl that honor suicide bombers and other scums will degrad to LYING... The funny thing is they expect us to TRUST them in negotiations after crap like that I think I rather wait and let them rot in their own filth, no hurry to do anything.
So I gather you aren't going to start a petition against your criminal Royal government and murderous criminal Royal military assassinating British citizens in foreign lands without the due process... Well, duh. Checkmate sunshine but of course keep piling on tiny besieged surrounded by enemies Jewish state, it's a whole lot safer and more fun than doing anything about your own criminal state.
No because the Parliamentary process has already begun as I have explained twice, so starting a petition to get it debated in Parliament when it is already being debated in Parliament would be pointless, DUH! http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/08/europe/uk-syria-drone-strike/index.html comprehend?.
Double standards again, you do honour your terrorists do you not? Or do you consider making a terrorist Prime Minister not a honour? Where as I have only ever condemned terrorists be they Zionists terrorists or Palestinian terrorists. Perhaps the IDF should stop being unpaid extras in RT and Aljazira propaganda then!
there is no parliamentary process to arrest the PM and the royal military involved in the assassination of British citizens in another sovereign country but it's fun to watch how you have a million excuses for your own criminal country bombing, invading, attacking countries and individuals for decades half the world away but choose instead to bleat non-stop about tiny besieged Jewish state defending itself against overwhelming number of enemies in their own backyard.
Oh dear, did your Hasbara school not teach you that no-one is above the law in the UK. We have a process to arrest a Prime Minister who has broken the law, and have done so with our military aswell. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24870699 Now show me anywhere I have offered excuses for criminal actions by my country, or you will look like a liar.
So does Israel, the Knesset and other appropriate agencies investigate everything and everyone but you still found a need for an absurd petition... Meanwhile your government and your military have for decades been waging war after war, invasion after invasion, it's now assassinating British citizens and violating sovereign borders...not a single criminal politician or murderous royal serviceman has been prosecuted and you are bleating here about a process. Clearly the "process" isn't working but you find no need for a petition to put your own criminals in the government and in the royal military out of business. Too obsessed with a tiny besieged Jewish state to notice the glass house you live in. Duh
Only 100,000? From future "New Pakistan", England, a country where there are political leaders backed by Hamas ... I [http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/143804/hamas-back-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-race] expected more ... And this is a clear expression of political hostility towards a potential UK Labor leadership ...
re-read the bible and you will see that all 12 tribes are scattered, will be returned, and the Kingdom re-established by the Messiah ~ since this "israel" has not been created by the Messiah it has no valid claim to the name as I wrote earlier this has been discussed numerous times on this forum
you obviously do not know what you are talking about since the Bible indicates all 12 tribes AND those who recognize Jesus as Messiah are heirs to the Kingdom - click on search for moree data
Um, I just gave you an example of a "murderous royal servicemen"who was prosecuted! Want another https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Payne_(British_Army_soldier) your argument just collapsed again! Now are you going to provide evidence of where I have offered excuses for criminal actions by my countryMOD EDIT - Rule 3
Lol nice try, guess what, Israeli servicemen are also routinely prosecuted and punished but you still support this absurd and phony petition. Your own country has invaded and bombed half a dozen nations all over the world, it just 2 days ago blatantly violated sovereign borders and assassinated British citizens without a due process but you see no need for a petition and prosecution of your entire government and the entire chain of the royal airforce involved in this criminal activity.... Duh
Actually I have not supported the petition (no evidence again, looks like your lying again) I just wanted to put you straight on the following, Members of the military have been prosecuted for war crimes in the UK.(fact) There is activism to get Blair in particular tried with war crimes.(fact) Question are already being asked in Parliament about the drone attack in Syria, hence for the fouth time No petition is needed.(fact) A IDF soldier got beaten up by a bunch of women and a little girl.(maybe beaten up is going too far) but you must admit it was funny! I have never offered excuses for criminal actions by my country (fact that you can provide no evidence to back up your rubbish) Israel is a regional superpower armed with nuclear weapons, hardly a "besieged little country" (fact) Hasbara shrill educators are pretty poor (opinion) Hasbara windbags rarely provide evidence and so often look like liars.(opinion) Look I have even pointed out what is fact and what is opinion for the hard of understanding. By the way, you do not know if it was criminal activity but us British will do are best to find out for you through our parliament. We wont expect any thanks we have learnt how ungrateful the Zionists are in WW2.
Members of the military have been prosecuted for war crimes in all countries, including Israel. And there is more activism in Israel than the entire Europe. But the UK has for decades been invading and bombing half a dozen countries half the world away, it's been violating international borders and resorting to assassinations including their own citizens. The British parliament is complicit and no British politician or the military has paid for these crimes.. So 100,000 British idiots start a petition against JOOZ, not against their own criminal governments and their own murderous military.
