Big Bang ushers in the heavens and the earth...?

The geological clock chart you presented mixes eons and eras. The Paleozoic, Mesozoic and Cenozic eras are all part of the Phanerozic Eon.

The idea that you can pick and choose, mix and match to fit into some distorted "scientific" justification for genesis six days of creation is apologism in the extreme. It is an argument of absolutely no merit.

 

Whatever you say....no longer interested.

 

No, the classification of three last three eras into a group called the "Phanerozic Eon" was jus a convenience of the geologists.
It designated those 3 which had in them signs of life, i.e.; fossils.

They had believed the the last three rock layers had no signs of fossils.
They called those three rock layers the "Cryptozoic eon," meaning no signs of life.

Since those times, they still continued find other reasons to designate differences between two layers, in spite they had discovered micro size fossils of life in all but the Hadeon Era.

There are only six layers on the Geological clock, in spite of different Graphs they construct.

 

You have only been interested in trying to show that bible is dead wrong, since you started off with that assumption.
What is clear is that people here deny that Gen 1:1f equates to saying there was a Big Bang.
Its because they just won't admit they are not right.

Then, they say the things to the Fundies which ridicule that kind of closed mindedness.
Go figure...

 

You actually buy into that apologist nonsense.

Might want to actually see what the geologists say instead of what an apologetics site says in defense of their square peg.

 

Nonsense.

"In the beginning there was nothing" does not in any way describe the Big Bang. the six days of creation do not in anyway describe the processes we now understand to have occurred in the formation of the universe, the formation of our sun, the formation of our planet, the advent of life and our ascendency to sentience and planetary apex predator.

It is with an OPEN mind that "fundies" and bible "literalists" are ridiculed for their state of deliberate ignorance which is the ultimate in closed mindedness.

 

So you insist...
They are wrong.

But so are you, too.
The beginning was at the moment of the Big Bang.
Six "durations" did follow as measured by the Geological Clock.

The formation of our planet was correctly described in Genesis 1:2, starting as a ring of hot matter, spinning in a disc around the Sun, without form and void of spherical shape at first.

Your blindness to the simple Bible reading is as bad as the Fundie nonsense which opposes Science.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_time_scale



Chronologic measurement:
The geologic time scale provides a system of chronologic measurement relating stratigraphy to time that is used by geologists, paleontologists and other earth scientists to describe the timing and relationships between events that have occurred during the history of the Earth.
Each era on the scale is separated from the next by a major event or change.
The geological or deep time of Earth's past has been organized into various units according to events which took place in each period.
Different spans of time on the time scale are usually delimited by major geological or paleontological events, such as mass extinctions.

 

I am well aware of geological time and how it is measured. OTOH, it does NOTHING to bolster your genesis is correct argument. In fact, when you look in more detail, it becomes OBVIOUS that you apologetics argument of the accuracy of genesis is nonsense.

 

For reasons beyond logic or understanding of reality you insist that the earth's geological "clock" is an accurate measure of time describing the development of the universe.

Now genesis does not in any way mention a ring of hot matter. It also claims that plants were created before day and night that according to your "geological clock" is separated by billions of years.

your intransigent belief in the ridiculous is your right. Your attempt at subverting science to fit a religious myth is not only intellectually dishonest, but it is an attitude that is dangerous to the continuing development of human knowledge and of our civilization.

 

Hi Jonsa, A couple of apologies is in order to my fellow member brethren. First is sorry for the long delay time for my response. Lastly, my tone and attitude was too assertive and conferential. I supposed to be working on that as it’s a stumbling block between I and God. I was too busy with trying to make ends meet, and for me food comes before fun, eh?

I wish I could disagree without sounding nit picky! The way I understand the current explanation of the Abiogenesis ‘hypothesis’ isn’t as confirming and optimistic as your definition! To my way of thinking the scientific form of AB seems just a ‘resurrected’ form of spontaneous generation, the ancient Greek idea that fairly mirrors AB.

I did not mean to put forth that idea, but I would word it differently. Just as a good con-man intentionally uses lies as tools. The scientific method is similar to the con mans technique. Science except in the rare instances of fraud etc strive for complete honesty. So I agree that science does fine tune its ability to discover. The bad news is that science remains bigoted. Most of its faults are administrative, ie its too entrenched.






[quotg] Thosemaking such an argument do not appreciate exactly what science is. It is simply a structured methodology of investigation.
Science does not create knowledge, it uncovers it.[/quote]

I appreciate science and know it intimately. Ignorance was a problem back in the 50’s maybe into the 60’s, however Christians have regained and are the equal if not surpassed non-theists in most Geographical areas. Problem #1 which concerns some of the above is that non-theists do not respect theists. Neither do they realize that it is they who often present an obvious deficit in the areas of advanced science and other related subjects. Other subjects are; ‘philosophy’ ‘anthropology’ ‘archeology’ and yes ‘theology’ with emphasis on anthropology/near east.

No I was thinking more along the lies of ‘Nebraska, Piltdown etc man’ or probably Abiogenesis, Lol please notice the apology (?) Its stupid remarks like that (da reva made) that turn people away from Christanity. Not exactly the example/image I want to prompte.

I do think some of our medicine will seem like eating poison, tyenol, hospital meals and others, such as bone repair and stitching with staples and the cost forcing people to choose between a steak and a blue pill…well you get my drift?

Yes indeed however you are, with all due respect making that comparison from ignorance, or at least ignorance if viewed from the perspective of someone with a lot of study in that subject. My specialty is end time prophesy, so I am not that expert, but even I can see that you are drawing erroneous conclusions from your knowledge base, We can go into more detail if you want later.

reva

 

No worries nor apologies required here. As for food before fun, I completely understand although I often have fun with food.

No actually it isn't about "spontaneous generation". It is about a complex chemical process parts of which have been replicated in the lab and parts are still a scientific mystery.

your perspective seems to be derived from the fallacy of anecdotal generalizations. Science is a process that REQUIRES peer review and falsifiability.

Science is a process utilized by humans and like all human endeavors the full spectrum of human behaviors can be found in

Ignorance remains a major societal problem then, now and into the reasonably foreseeable future.

How interesting that you think non-theists do not respect theists as being such a problem. Granted there are atheists who are vociferous in their own belief and scorn those of other beliefs, but one could also truthfully say that there are theists who are vociferous in their beliefs and scorn the beliefs of others (including other theists).

I do not find an argument that uses a singular aspect of human nature, one that is shared universally regardless of color or creed, as compelling in any way since it ignores the identical aspect corollary.

Nebraska Man was not a hoax, it was a mistake in classification which given the sample size, subject matter and tools available was understandable.
Piltdown Man was a total hoax. They are not myths.

Again, no apology necessary.

As knowledge advances it discards the inefficient and ineffective. this is an on going process. 200 years ago people were "bled". 150 years ago the only treatment for a shot up limb was amputation. I agree that our grandchildren will look back at the state of much of our medicine today and be thankful they live in their time.

[video=youtube;a3SpPgkHaZc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3SpPgkHaZc[/video]

No actually. I have studied the origins of the bible from an anthropological perspective in some detail.

Remove the content and look at the process of development while taking into account human nature, and you get NOT the inerrant word of god, but the errant word of many ignorant and illiterate people over a couple of generations (NT) relating stories that appear to be the judeo/christian equivalent of what we call classical mythology today.

Let me hypothesis for a sec. it is physically impossible for a human to walk on water (unless its ice). heat radiation creates mirages of water, islands and when watching an animal or human move, it is like they were walking on water. Imagine sitting around the campfire in the year 30 AD listening to a preacher trying to sell you on his new religion, and one could easily understand if that "is like" was dropped for awe inspiring dramatic impact.

Virtually all religious scriptures contain examples of such possible explanations for "miracles". All religious scriptures attribute what we know as naturally occurring phenomena to the hand of God(s) including such well understood events like eclipses, earthquakes, volcanos, thunder, lightening, drought, flooding.

It is somewhat ironic that you make an argument about science obsoleting itself thru the advancement of knowledge, but you do not accept that the identical condition should also apply to scriptures.

Cheers.

 

yeah, yeah, yeah,...
You keep saying "No,... no way, etc."

That's is just your side of the aisle here.
I am showing you the facts of Earth History as recorded by the Geological Clock.

Under the Chart above, it clearly states: "THE CLOCK REPRESENTATION SHOWS...UNITS OF GEOLOGICAL TIME... FOR THE HISTORY OF THE EARTH."

 

?
The Geologists claim their Clock is for real.
Read the yellow high-lighted sentence under my chart above.

Genesis does say that the Earth "was without form and void" of spherical shape.
And, it was during the first formative duration, in The Chaotion Eon of the Formative Stage, which came before the Hadean Era on the Geological clock:

 

Nonsense.

It is your attempt to deny the truth here that science corresponds with the Bible Genesis story that threatens us all, as your lies are wrong.

 

If you start by assuming things like Hypnosis are at the bottom of these "miracle" cures, and see what is done today in those fields you would not be so arrogant with opinions about the effect on people in 32AD, had they seen wine from water they drank and loved.

Mass hypnosis is a way that many of the "miracles" were accomplished by Jesus, in a day long before 1890, when Dr. Mesmer re-discovered the techniques for us.

 

No, you are attempting to prove the accuracy of genesis wrt the process of creation with non-scientific apologetics and actual obvious distortion of the scientific record.

As to facts of earth history, I do not in any way dismiss geology as a science. Nor do I dismiss the segmentation of that history into distinct geological periods.

But I do dispute nonsense like the 1 hour = 375,000 years, especially when you have directly contradicted it yourself with the variable "duration" of a genesis day.

 

I readily accept the stratification of earth geology and its division into generalized eons, epochs, periods.

However, they DO NOT IN ANY WAY measure the development of the universe. They apply to the development of the solar system (some 10 billions after the universe began) onward.

This incredibly simple fact seems to soar above your head.

how disingenuous to not quote the rest of the verse.


As a biblical scholar where exactly does it say the earth is of spherical shape?

Why does genesis say god created the plants and grasses before he created the sun and moon?

You argue veracity on the one hand while CONVENIENTLY ignoring the nonsense. fortunately the absurdity of such is not lost.

 

IIUYC, what you are positing is that Jesus was a charlatan, tricking people to believing in his Truth (as you repeatedly quote "I am the way....). IOW the precursor of the Jim Bakkers and Benn Hinns of today's world.

 

Not exactly................ there are several sources of information regarding the tradition that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus travelled as far as India and Tibet during the lost years of his life between his being about twelve and when he was baptized by John/Yohannan in the Jordan River.

A higher level of awareness of these accounts could play a significant role in an outpouring of the Holy Spirit in India that could positively affect the future of the earth?!

http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...out-healing-india-before-teaching-judaea.html

Did Rabbi Jesus/Yeshua learn about healing in India before teaching in Judaea?



Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua in INDIA!!!!???

I first ran into the idea of Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua travelling to India in the writings of Levi Dowling. Now I have found what I consider to be an even better writing on this fascinating subject.

http://www.thomastwin.com/6 A Thomas background.html

 

?
Even today we have no evidence or proof for what Hypnosis is or how it works, or even why it works.

It is still unknown in that regard.
In spite of that, people, including you, now take it as some kind of trick or pseudo-magic thing.

2000 years passed when jesus used hypnosis in 32AD, before Dr Mesmer discovered hypnosis and told us about it.
Mesmer called the hypnosis "Animal Magnetism," mostly because he thought he had a power over peoples' minds.

What Jesus was doing was "talking to the Subconscious mind" of people, outside of the realm of their Conscious mind.
He was dealing with the 7 spirits we now call archetypes.
He was telling those spirits to stop what they were doing inside the heads of the people they dominated.

This seems pretty powerful "magic," especially 2000 years ago, or whatever you want to call it.

 

You know, various cultures, their religions have Creation Myths. But they are myths, man's attempt at understand where the earth, the universe came from. They should never be taken in a literal fashion, but only as an interesting story that is captivating enough to be passed on orally. All ancient cultures had these myths. And lest we forget, these accounts came from the brain of man, which is very good at imagining things. I don' take them literally, or seriously, for I feel that I know why they were created. It is natural for man to create them.

I think the universe arose from consciousness itself, a consciousness that is in all of life, but perhaps even in the earth, the sun, etc. And it perhaps exploded from consciousness, in one instant in time. The evolution of life itself was predetermined to happen, a part of the manifestation from this consciousness. I am not talking of the ego consciousness that we are all familiar with, but a more pristine, fundamental consciousness, not the consciousness that comes of the ego, from stored experience, knowledge, that the brain accumulates.

So I don't buy into the materialistic view of reality, which is an assumption, which can never be proved. There is at least a 50/50 chance that consciousness is the ground of reality, not matter. In fact, given the discoveries in quantum mechanics, perhaps it is 51/49 in favor of consciousness. Just my opinion, of course.

 

You are scientifically confirmed in your view here.

The foundation for our Quantum Physics today is based upon what is called The Copenhagen Interpretation.
That idea says that some "observer" of the first Quantum Wave functions em to "collapse" into matter which formed this Big Bang Universe.

The observer had to pre-exist the Universe, and by observing, created the cosmos, itself.

Hence, you are saying there was a Creator and so is Science.

 

why on earth would Jesus have to learn how to heal if he is god?

I have heard of this myth of Jesus in India, also of him moving to France after resurrection with his wife and son, and let's not forget the book of Mormon suggesting he popped over the pond for a quick visit.

More mythology short on fact or evidence.

 

Yes, the six days are "clocked" by the Geological layers, but the first morning of the Big Bang beginning until the Earth took the form of a Sphere was measured by the seven steps on Cosmic Evolution:




This long long first "duration" also had seven steps, too.


1. Formative/Cosmologic Era-Hadean Era/ = First Day

2. Hadean Era-Archaean Era/ = Second Day

3. Archaean Era-Proterozoic Era/ = Third Day

4. Proterozoic Era-Paleozoic Era/ = Fourth Day

5. Paleozoic Era-Mesozoic Era/ = Fifth Day

6. Mesozoic Era-Cenozoic Era/ = Six Day

7. Cenozoic Era-Common Era/ = Seventh Day