Catherine Deneuve denounces #MeToo in open letter

Fred C Dobbs · Jan 11, 2018

VotreAltesse said: ↑

As a man I think that limits between flirting and harrassement are not that hard :
_ No unwanted physical contact
_ No insults
_ If she ask to leave her alone, leave her alone.

But some women over react and consider simply flirting as harrassement, far to be all of them by the way, but some have difficulties to know that trying to sweet talking with a woman isn't harrassement.
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There are situations also when a woman may feel you're flirting, or showing interest, when that's not happening at all. Just being friendly is often misinterpreted as being more than what it is. I'm sure that works both ways.

Fred C Dobbs · Jan 11, 2018

MVictorP said: ↑

Pepe LePew is a sexual aggressor and should be thrown in jail.
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He's already wearing the stripes.

scarlet witch · Jan 11, 2018

Questerr said: ↑

Similar to how people complaining about being punched in the face diminishes those who’ve being shot.

Unwanted sexual advances and touches are unwanted sexual advances and touches.
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First of all touching someone's knee is not punching them in the face... women are indeed punched in the face, domestic abuse is a very big problem. Comparing these two is a huge injustice to the victim (who is punched in the face) and to a man (who is touching someone's knee).

Secondly unwanted sexual advances and touches only becomes abusive when the person pursuing a women won't stop after she asked for him to stop. This can become sexual abuse without the request to stop if there is an imbalance of power. For example in the workplace ie Harvey Weinstein misuse of power, essentially it's blackmail. However if a woman is free to walk away there's no sexual abuse.

Thirdly when did women become so fragile that even the suggestion someone wants to have sex with you is now sexual abuse, that's just rubbish and detracts from the real issues which is domestic violence, rape, misuse of power...not touching someone's stupid knee.

kungfuliberal · Jan 11, 2018

Ahh, Chauvinism is alive and well in France...and being carried on by duped women of another generation. Sad.

Talon · Jan 11, 2018

Antiduopolist said: ↑

^ Party Pooper.
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Me?

I would never let an animal of the female persuasion down.

Questerr · Jan 11, 2018

scarlet witch said: ↑

First of all touching someone's knee is not punching them in the face... women are indeed punched in the face, domestic abuse is a very big problem. Comparing these two is a huge injustice to the victim (who is punched in the face) and to a man (who is touching someone's knee).

Secondly unwanted sexual advances and touches only becomes abusive when the person pursuing a women won't stop after she asked for him to stop. This can become sexual abuse without the request to stop if there is an imbalance of power. For example in the workplace ie Harvey Weinstein misuse of power, essentially it's blackmail. However if a woman is free to walk away there's no sexual abuse.

Thirdly when did women become so fragile that even the suggestion someone wants to have sex with you is now sexual abuse, that's just rubbish and detracts from the real issues which is domestic violence, rape, misuse of power...not touching someone's stupid knee.
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You shouldn’t be touching someone else uninvited to begin with.

scarlet witch · Jan 11, 2018

Questerr said: ↑

You shouldn’t be touching someone else uninvited to begin with.
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People touch other people every day... hey.. I touch your shoulder to get your attention. I lean over and touch your knee, if it annoys you tell me to stop touching you. If I continue then you have reason to complain. There are parts of the body off limits, don't touch my breasts and certainly if you grab me by the ***** I'll slap you.

No one is saying No means Yes. There are women out there who enjoy being chased by men but have no interest in sleeping with him, to me it's wrong of her to not tell him she's not interested. If she asked him to stop and he doesn't that's sexual harassment. Our society is filled with non verbal cues and innuendo, if something annoys you or you are not interested you need to shut it down. If you shut them down and they continue with their sexual advances... male or female, it's harassment.

Rape, misuse of power in the workplace and domestic violence is a serious problem the world over. Complaining about someone touching your shoulder or knee, (bottom is off limits in my opinion) detracts from these serious issues and minimises the suffering of women who experienced real abuse at the hands of people like Harvey Weinstein.

Arkie · Jan 11, 2018

scarlet witch said: ↑

People touch other people every day... hey.. I touch your shoulder to get your attention. I lean over and touch your knee, if it annoys you tell me to stop touching you. If I continue then you have reason to complain. There are parts of the body off limits, don't touch my breasts and certainly if you grab me by the ***** I'll slap you.

No one is saying No means Yes. There are women out there who enjoy being chased by men but have no interest in sleeping with him, to me it's wrong of her to not tell him she's not interested. If she asked him to stop and he doesn't that's sexual harassment. Our society is filled with non verbal cues and innuendo, if something annoys you or you are not interested you need to shut it down. If you shut them down and they continue with their sexual advances... male or female, it's harassment.

Rape, misuse of power in the workplace and domestic violence is a serious problem the world over. Complaining about someone touching your shoulder or knee, (bottom is off limits in my opinion) detracts from these serious issues and minimises the suffering of women who experienced real abuse at the hands of people like Harvey Weinstein.
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Excellent post.^

Jonsa · Jan 11, 2018

Space_Time said: ↑

I just love her Chanel no. 5 commercials from the 1970's. Here's one:

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I dreamt of "behind my knees" on more than one occasion.

scarlet witch · Jan 12, 2018

Almost every headline on #MeToo was criticising Deneuve for speaking out, I want to share this article from Helena Frith Powell I wholeheartedly support. We need to separate serious sexual offences from flirting.

So how does a Frenchwoman deal with an unwelcome approach? French writer and philosopher Simone Weil began a tradition when she was harassed. She poured a jug of water over the perpetrator’s head, a custom Frenchwomen have followed ever since.

‘We tell them to stop,’ says my friend Claudine, looking at me as if I were an idiot, when I asked what she would do.

She told me a colleague of hers once put his hand on her knee in a taxi after a work dinner. She ignored it and it never happened again.
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‘The Anglo-Saxons took terrible umbrage at any whiff of sexuality at work,’ she says. ‘The Frenchwomen were very capable of navigating the sexual politics in the office. They always looked immaculate and were able to be sexually present without it diminishing their power in the workplace.

‘On the contrary, they often used their own sexuality to their advantage.’
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Few things make a Frenchwoman grumpier than not being appreciated. As a French girlfriend of mine puts it, paraphrasing Oscar Wilde: ‘There’s only thing worse than being flirted with, and that’s not being flirted with.’

An English friend who works at a French bank in Paris was recently reprimanded for not paying female colleagues enough attention. ‘Flirt with them, talk to them, open doors for them,’ his French boss urged. ‘They think you hate them at the moment. What’s wrong with you?’

What was wrong with him, of course, was that he was used to the Anglo-Saxon culture where eyeing someone up can be disastrous. Where a flirtatious comment can land you in court, or a misplaced hand can mean the end of your career.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...H-POWELL-feminists-need-flirty-Frenchman.html

Pycckia · Jan 12, 2018

Pisa said: ↑

Men need to learn that the Universe doesn't revolve around their family jewels.
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It doesn't???

Are you sure???

From my reading of history, I'm pretty sure it does!

Space_Time · Jan 12, 2018

Catherine Deneuve on flirting:

Space_Time · Jan 17, 2018

Here's more:

"

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/269042/barbarism-backlash-and-boundaries-bruce-bawer

OF BARBARISM, BACKLASH, AND BOUNDARIES
Negotiating the post-Weinstein era.
January 17, 2018 Bruce Bawer 0
After reaching a certain age, one is rarely shocked by human behavior; one thinks of oneself as having gotten used to the ways of the world. But I have to admit that the scale of the revelations that began with Rowan Farrow's exposé of Harvey Weinstein genuinely shocked me. Charlie Rose “groping female colleagues and walking around naked in their presence”? Met conductor James Levine molesting a boy of fifteen and continuing to do so for years? Matt Lauer installing a door lock under his desk to facilitate sexual assaults on colleagues? Kevin Spacey trying to rape a 14-year-old boy?

Two or three stories like this wouldn't have shaken my world. But one after another of them, coming to light day after day? Mind-blowing. I never imagined that so many respected (in some cases beloved) public figures could be such sleazeballs – and creepily creative ones, at that. As an old friend of mine wrote the other day on Facebook, “It's strange to suddenly discover in late middle age that I've always been even more of a straight-arrow type than I knew at the time.” It's even stranger to make this discovery knowing that you were once, long ago, as I was, a white-bread, well-behaved-to-a-fault young gay guy who thought his sexual orientation made him the most aberrant thing in town.

The reckoning that Weinstein and others of his ilk have faced is necessary and gratifying. But the longer this has gone on, the less it has looked like a righteous round-up of rogues and the more like a witch hunt by people who are determined to take down every man who ever looked at a woman the wrong way. Last Saturday, front and center on the New York Times website was an article claiming that fashion photographer Bruce Weber had subjected male models to “unnecessary nudity and coercive sexual behavior.” One of the models said Weber had grabbed his equipment: “We never had sex or anything, but a lot of things happened. A lot of touching. A lot of molestation.”

The same article accused another photographer, Mario Testino, of subjecting male models to “sexual advances that in some cases included groping and masturbation.” I don't know anything about Testino, but what I've seen of Weber's oeuvre over the years consists largely of pictures that, oozing eroticism, seem to document the placid interludes in the midst of pansexual orgies. In other words, these models should have had a good idea of what they were getting into. As grown men, in any case, they were perfectly capable of saying no, of pushing away the hand of a photographer two or three times their age (Weber is now 71), and, if necessary, of simply putting on their clothes and walking away.

Clearly, it was time for a backlash. In fact, one had already begun. Back in mid November, Masha Gessen warned in the New Yorker that the unmasking of predators was turning into a “sex panic” that drew no line between rape and rudeness. On January 5, a week before publishing the Weber piece, the Times ran an op-ed in which Daphne Merkin criticized “the reflexive and unnuanced sense of outrage that has accompanied this cause from its inception” and the lack of discrimination that had led the “vague and unspecific” charges against some men to be lumped in with the more serious and substantiated accusations leveled against others. On January 12, Andrew Sullivan chimed in, claiming that a new McCarthyism was underway. Two days later, at City Journal, Heather MacDonald asked: “How long will it be before feminists demand the return of chaperones?”

But the most headline-grabbing part of the backlash was an open letter published in Le Monde on January 9. Written by five prominent Frenchwomen and signed by over 100 other prominent Frenchwomen, including legendary actress Catherine Deneuve, it began: “Rape is a crime. But trying to pick up someone, however persistently or clumsily, is not – nor is gallantry an attack of machismo.”

While the Weinstein scandal had “sparked a legitimate awakening” about sexual violence, it had now devolved into a “witch hunt.” To make it a crime to “touch a woman’s knee, try to steal a kiss, talk about 'intimate' things during a work meal, or send sexually-charged messages to women who did not return their interest” doesn't “empower” women, they wrote, but reduces them to a protected class. It's one thing to denounce “abuses of power,” another to encourage “a hatred of men and sexuality.” In short: “the freedom to say 'no' to a sexual proposition cannot exist without the freedom to importune.”
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Space_Time · Jan 18, 2018

First Deneuve, now Bardot:

http://dailycaller.com/2018/01/18/brigitte-bardot-me-too/

Brigitte Bardot Slams ‘Me Too’ Movement In Shocking Interview
Photo of Jena Greene
JENA GREENE
Contributor
1:42 PM 01/18/2018
22 22 Share
Hollywood icon Brigitte Bardot is under fire after calling the #MeToo movement “hypocritical and ridiculous” in a recent interview.

“The vast majority are being hypocritical and ridiculous,” she told Paris Match, translated by France 24. “Lots of actresses try to play the tease with producers to get a role. And then, so we will talk about them, they say they were harassed,” she said.

“I was never the victim of sexual harassment. And I found it charming when men told me that I was beautiful or I had a nice little backside,” the 83-year-old said.

Since the interview was published earlier this week, Bardot has come under major fire. Many feminists are outraged and refuse to accept her opinion. Suddenly, it became acceptable to criticize another woman’s nationality, age and appearance.

Brigitte Bardot’s opinion is not uncommon, though it is almost always invariably kept hidden. In today’s atmosphere of militant groupthink, you must either adhere to what is deemed a politically correct stance, or risk being marginalized and bullied into silence.
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