Confederate Flag- Flag of Traitors

The facts are simple there is ,even now, no Constitutional ban on Secession so states invoked their right to leave the Union. It was economic in the Revolutionary War the same general reasons were given economics (slavery in the Confederacy and taxes in the Colonies) was one. When the Confederacy decided to leave the Union they had more than fair grounds to assume they could. When they were invaded it was no different than when told England off and the fought them we rebelled then and its seen by the United States as okay, so what is the difference when the South did it save they lost in armed conflict. If Britain won it would have been the same case as we see the South now.

 

It would seem the Left still wants to associate the Tea Party as a bunch of old White racist. because most of them are White. They have called them racist long before that one man was photo graft carrying a Confederate flag.But just what has the Tea Party stood for? Lower taxes, less government. Does that make them racist? The Black race in this country are mostly associated with the Democratic Party, so how can that make the Tea Party as racist? Many are saying the same about the Republican Party. Excuse me, don't people have the right to chose their Party affiliation? If they chose one Party over another does that automatically make the Party they didn't chose racist? Why would so many older Whites choose the Tea Party over the Democratic Party? Could it be that many are on fixed incomes and don't want higher taxes? Something the Democrats are always screaming for. Could it be that they have learned through life that you can't keep spending more than what you earn and have a stable home? Could it be that Democrats have more people not working, or have lower income and paying higher taxes isn't going to effect most of their people. It will take from others and give to them. Wow, why would I want to join the Tea Party or the Republican Party? But to justify why I don't want to, I'll just call them all racist. The nerve of all those old White people wanting to keep what little they have, even though they are on a limited income. That isn't the Democratic way. We want them to share what little wealth they have left to us. The bunch of filthy Tea Party racist.

 

That is just plain insulting and idiotic to say. If you don't know how or why that is... then I suppose you won't know exactly why that BS you just regurgitated on this page got you put on 'ignore'.

It is 2013 and SOME stupid Americans STILL can't see the insurmountable horror and crime against humanity that chattel slavery on this continent was.

You really ought to know better and certainly not relate the kind of intellectual excrement you just did above. You just pissed me right off with that nonsense!! And the only reason I'm responding, is to leave a marker for Google... so that reasonable people inclined to research the truth, will do so.

Your kind of attitude and ignorance is what has plagued this nation for generations. Thanks for the REMINDER that America should have probably burned down what was left of the Confederacy and banned ANY manner of action related to expressing sympathy for that disgusting practice of slavery related to our nation's history.

In light of how things are today, perhaps it is time for people to start burning Confederate flags/symbols on a regular basis. Too bad people didn't start doing that regularly, decades ago.

 

Why honor ANY Confederate symbols whatsoever?

We should be as SANE about that old Confederate crap, as Germany is about Nazi symbols; they don't tolerate it. We keep playing with 'FIRE' then wonder why people get burned and have strong feelings about the same. Let's stop playing-stupid.

Slavery represents the WORST of what America was/is; the South was defeated... yet we have people in all their misguided rebelliousness, attempting to HONOR that fallen, disgusting nation.

Oh Lord!! Please deliver us from that 'evil'!!

 

Traitors always entertain that self-justification.

When, on April 12, 1861, General P.G.T. Beauregard, in command of the Confederate forces around Charleston Harbor, opened fire on the US garrison at Fort Sumter, their fate was sealed, but an economy sustained by human bondage would not have survived much longer anyway.

 

They are predominantly angry White guys, conservative Southerners, even if "Liberals" imagined that their depiction of the President as an African with doctor might betray a racial attitude.

Again, if they are now abandoning their rightist social agenda to focus upon fiscal responsibility, good. However, their choice of a totem when they flail a flag of rebellion against the United States, that of a pretender government that raised taxes, seized private property, and printed currency in irreponsible profusion is woefully amiss, the racial message aside.

Who that speaks for the TPs has condemned the inappropriate practice at their assemblages? Is no one in the TP movement responsible?



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Darn right they are angry White people. Their Party stands against some of the major things the Democrats are for. Less taxes, less government. So does the Republican Party. How does that make them racist? Most Blacks don't want to join either Party. Most are the recipients of higher taxes and more government.

Are their any racist in the Tea Party, a person would be a liar if they said no. Are their any racist in the Democratic Party? Same answer. You'll find that 10% in everything. But you guys want to paint the whole two Parties as racist.

So the news people caught one guy with a Confederate flag. Big deal. Who has a right to stop him? Did he put it up as a sign of racism, or a sign of government rebellion? You Democrats see racism in everything. You throw that word out every chance you get as if it puts your Party on a higher ground. Well it doesn't. It's like a guy yelling fire all the time when their isn't any fire. You have wore the word out.

Excuse me if I don't answer back right away to questions. I'll be on and off all day. My wife sort of thinks I should devote more time to her than you on her day off.

 

Except that the economic system the South wanted to keep was one in which the entire world was abolishing, country by country. They wanted to keep a system, that the entire world was calling inhumane. Anti-slavery clauses were being written into constitutions all around the world, prior to the Civil War. The South's economy was doomed to collapse without the plantation system, and just like others who relied on the plantation system for wealth from the Caribbean to South America to India, they fought to keep that plantation system in place. In America, they fought ruthlessly...

 

Republicans aren't "right" about everything... not anymore than Democrats are.

I know people like to talk as though the OTHER side is at fault... but the reality is that we're ALL human beings; and these problems that are suffered by this nation today, do not relegate themselves exclusively to one Party or the other.

Still lately, the disgustingly-strong overtones of racism emanating from the far-Right (Tea Party) elements within the Republican Party are both disturbing AND problematic.

 

Most Democrats are White, of course.

So, not one TP spokesperson has criticized the flags at their rallies?

If you wish to pretend that only "one guy" has ever attended a TP rally brandishing a Confederate flag, your credibility suffers. You can ignore all those witch doctor posters, but a collage of a number of TPs waving rebel flags is easy to compile.

If you are paying attention, I indicated that it was good if the TPs are abandoning their loonier concerns and focusing upon fiscal responsibility but, regardless of their nostalgic attachment, adopting the symbol of a failed political entity that "raised taxes, seized private property, and printed currency in irreponsible profusion is woefully amiss, the racial message aside."

Most Americans do not like them already.

 

What physical responsibility? Don't they already pay taxes? Is it there responsibility to pay more and more when they too are on a limited income, while almost half the country pays nothing? Aren't we taught we should live within our means? Why is it Democrats don't believe that?

Do you know that several surveys has been done and Conservatives give more of their money, time and blood to the needy than Liberals do that keep telling us we need to give more? When are your people going to step up. It doesn't have to be just money, how about more of your time and blood? You people need to start looking in the mirror before slaming others for not doing what you yourselves refuse to do. You want to pretend your so compassionate. That's easy to do when you have everyone else doing things for you.

 

TP Superstar "Joe the Pumber" Wurzelbacher:

They're out there.

 

I only watch the TP rallies on TV, but this is the 1st time I saw a Confederate flag being flown at a rally. I'm not saying they weren't flown at other rallies. But If i were there in person, I would have definitely said something to that flag-bearer. I would have told him that you are not helping our message through that garbage, and I would have created a scene. But if I were one of the spokespeople for the event? I'm not sure I would include the Confed flag as part of my speech I prepared. It depends on how prevalent Confed flags were at the event, and how visible they were to me at the time, as to whether I would want to derail my speech and talk about the Confederacy and how its ideals divides Americans today, just as it did then. Also, you don't know for sure that Palin, or Cruz didn't at least make a passing comment to that guy carrying the flag. It may or may not have been on camera. Just as if I were there complaining about that guy, I may or may not have been captured on camera saying it. And even then, the MSM may or may not have aired that confrontation.

 

The British, Spanish, and Portuguese used African slaves bought from Muslim Arabs to furnish cheap labor in the New World. I have never justified the use of slavery by the British or Colonialists in the Americas or Australia. The animus from some black people in America can be partially understood. Living in the past and blaming the people of today for the ill of yesterday is ridiculous.
Why did the Irish and Scots come to America?
Why did many Sicilian Italians come to America?
Why did many Russian and German Jews come to America?
Was it to own slaves or to escape European forms of slavery, and religious persecution?
Should all the heirs of the victims that survived these forms of slavery in Europe, South America, Australia and Persia demand reparations to assuage the wrongs done to their fore bearers?
Where does it stop?

 

"Fiscal." I've endorsed fiscal responsibity.

Who is promoting any American except the extremely wealthy paying more taxes - even as much as they did under Reagan?

Who do you like to believe "your people" are?



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We are not all blaming you for slavery. Just as I don't blame someone who denies the Holocaust for the Holocaust. But any attempt to deny the responsibility of all parties involved (including the South) for the horrors of slavery is endorsing a view of history that is wrong. The reason it is wrong is that history is supposed to serve as a lesson. Slavery, like the Holocaust, was a major lesson for humanity. It should be acknowledged. And its effects on the Africans who were brought here should be acknowledged. It should be acknowledged that the African community was destroyed by slavery. It should be acknowledged that an Emancipation Proclamation did not restore African-Americans as a social group instantaneously. Their families being ripped apart, the brutality the survivors witnessed, is not something that could be corrected with a Proclamation. But that community is still suffering the effects of their uprooting, and that should be understandable to any reasonable person.

 

I fully agree with you about lessons from history. Where do I a son of a survivor and escapee of the various pogroms against humanity in Europe owe anything to a Afro-American today?

 

You owe them nothing but the acknowledgement of this historical lesson. This lesson explains a lot of the plight of African-Americans ever since the Civil War. Their color does not explain it. The brutality and destruction of their family structure and society explains it better than their color. But surprisingly, you will find that I disagree with affirmative action...but that's another thread.

 

Wrong Indians

 

Thanks for sharing the truth (though many in this forum will do their best, to ignore what you shared AND in their not-so-subtle-ways justify the very inhumanity which transpired; leaving the legacy effects you mention above).

 

1. I think it was a mistake to put you on 'ignore'. (You make enough sense to me, to not be there.)

2. When I see the the remnants of of that old "Southern" culture take on the legacy of slavery with a more conciliatory tone overall.

It stops, when people DROP and even discredit the SICK notion that the "South" must rise again.

 

Yes, slavery is wrong and believe me it's been acknowledged time and time again for years now. We have learned our lesson and slavery will never be repeated in this country ever again. We have tried our best to make it up to the Blacks by instituting many programs to help them. Programs that even give them a step up over Whites.

Families were ripped apart and that was wrong. But 150 years and many new laws, regulations and policies had restored Black families. Up to the 1960's, black families were as common as White. Only a very small percentage point separated them. But then something happened after the War On Poverty took hold. Instead of making families stronger and more efficient. Black families once again were tore apart. This time it wasn't slavery. This time it was Black women having children when not married. This time it was Black fathers abandoning their families to let government take care of them, while he ran off having more children and not marrying the woman or trying to support his family. Who is responsible for that? You can't blame slavery for ripping Black families apart and you can't blame Whites. Are Blacks willing to to step up and admit they they themselves are the cause?

 

The South will rise again, I hear that all the time from my various family members. But the South rose to an economic powerhouse in the first place based on the back-breaking work of slaves. Just as the Brits, French, Dutch, Portuguese, and Spanish did. Competition between each other is what lead to the increase in slavery. Once one nation saw the wealth that could be obtained from sugar plantations based on slave labor (and eventually other plantations and economic fields), then that nation could only refuse to participate in slavery at the detriment of their own economy. You can see this mindset in the various letters written to various kings in the 1500's-1700's. There were repeated warnings to kings and queens that if they didn't support the sugar trade (and therefore the slave trade, since that was the only way to obtain the labor necessary to produce sugar), then they risked other countries profiting from it at their expense. Slavery was a lesson in how competition between nations can lead to further and further dehumanizing practices.

But it wasn't just the South that participated in slavery. It was all humans. It was a human lesson, not to be directed solely at the South.

 

I also agree with you that many of the welfare and poverty programs are NOT helping the communities that are arising as a result of these programs. These communities include whites and blacks and all races. People who want reforms in these programs are not necessarily the same as people who want "the South to rise again." I'll acknowledge that, since I am one of those people.

 

Don't think for a minute when those words are spoken today, that they mean that slavery will be brought back to the South. That's not what they mean at all. Back then it meant that the nation of the Confederacy will come back. Today, some say it as a joke. Others say it meaning once again government isn't listening to the problems of the South. People are fed up with the talk of more taxes, more debt and low wages. They are sick of Democrats playing down debt as if it doesn't matter and wanting to install even more money eating programs without having the money to pay for what we already have. If anything breaks this country apart then, it will be that, not slavery.