Debate: Israel – victim or aggressor?

Well I used a scholarly source and you used a bunch of zionist websites and the Israeli government who are proven liars through out all their history.That is pretty funny but if you want to believe rubbish websites then go right a head.

 

Sorry happens to be the truth which has been researched by a professor of political science and does not come from some zionist made up history website. Can you actually see the difference here? I am using a scholarly source and you are using websites called zionism-israel.com.

 

Yes that is right and anyone looking at your link to wikipedia about the Jews in Aden will see it had no sources at all. Posting a load of other links to try and disprove what I said does not work at all really. I never stated that what was there is wrong I said it had no sources and that wikipedia was not a good source when talking about Israel-Jews-Palestine.What you have tried to do here is cover your ass for your own mistake and it has not worked. Next time I suggest you look if the wiki article has any sources or use another source that does.

 

The interview is a detailed report into the start of the 1967 war and it certainly refutes your claims that it was defensive. You should have read it,it is very interesting but you prefer to get your info from mythsandfacts.com.

 

A scholarly source? ha ha Your scholarly source is just as prone to corruption as beentheres source. Even if it were the most brilliant scientist in the word that does not prevent him from lying or being untruthful! COME ON! The slanderous claims you make are typical tripe that someone uses when they are too lazy to rebut the site or comments themselves. You must show why been there's material piece by piece is fraudulent or a lie. Judging by your lame rebuttals its obvious you do not have a leg to stand on.

I dont believe any websites unequivocally. Again your sites are no more valid or accurate than beenthere's, education is no guarantee of honesty. In some cases its otherwise.

reva

 

You used an artical by someone that's off base. And as far as I'm concerned so are you. I said to disprove wiki and you didn't even try to respond. That means to me that you can't. I used some Israeli sites but not all. And again, I asked for proof that wiki was mistaken and you completely ignored it. Not one of you so called "Scholarly" types that take exception to wiki have yet to prove wiki wrong. I wonder why that is???

 

Myths and facts (The Jewish Library) is very accurate, they have to be. As are the Arab sites. The only thing to be wary of is the spin that each side imparts to their information. BTW, I know the events leading up to the war by rote, its my business to know it. However the way I read the history that both sides give freely its obvious who was the instigator and who caused the war. That would be the Arabs. You probably did not read any of my replies especially where I said that technically Israel swung first. I also said not to do so would have been suicide! So sorry, I am a realist.

What the pacifists perceives as a wrong is survival in the real world sometimes. (the world sided with Israel just after the war, what the world was angry about was that Israel did not give anything but the Sinai back.)_

reva

 

Yes a PHD in political science pretty much trumps your mythsandfacts.com.

 

He is only off base to you and other zionists. The guys books are critically acclaimed and he is a professor. Now if you want to believe zionism-israel.com and not a scholarly source then that is up to you.

 

It is not very accurate at all. It is a joke website. Please read some scholarly works on the subject. I am not going back and forth with you lot all day. I have presented a scholarly source and you lot are relying on some zionist websites. That says it all to me.

 

I read your artical. And being a professor doesn't mean squat to me. Timothy Leary was also a professor and another nut case to boot. Ernesto Bustamante was another professor, the sheep skin means nothing.

But go ahead and defend the Arabs;

http://avpv.tripod.com/AmericanVictims.html

I will NOT!!!

 

Not hardly!

 

Zionist??? Hummmm, since when were a mixture of German, Scott, and English Zionist???

Hey, Timothy Leary was critically acclimed by the collage doppers of the 60's also, now wasn't he.

 

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/article.aspx?g=41111

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1993321/posts

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/American-Victims-Palestinian-Attacks.htm

http://www.lebanese-forces.org/lebanon/agreements/cairo.htm

All "Zionist" websites, right???

 

You are incorrect. They were still there at the start of the war. Have a read.



His most famous test came in Gaza in 1967, just before the six-day war between Egypt and Israel. General Rikhye, then commander of the United Nations Emergency Force, was asked by the Egyptians to withdraw from the buffer zone where, for a while, UN peacekeepers had been preserving calm. Unflustered, he played for time; and when Israel launched its attack on Egypt, the peacekeepers were caught in the middle. Several were killed; the HQ was destroyed by shelling; the tyres were shot out on their military jeeps, and only by bumping on the hubs could they flee to the beach at Gaza to radio for rescue. “We are not fighting anybody”, General Rikhye told New York, via Cyprus, “but we are under fire.” A peacekeeper's life.

http://www.economist.com/node/9298508

 

LOL
Norman Finkelfuhrer is 'scholarly' only in that he Once held a Assistant professorship at Depaul- since Fired for his garbage and denied a job a Yale.

Only a Rank beginner would seek to use this Infamous crackpot.

 

The Simon Wiesenthal Center

"....Finkelstein, the assistant professor in political science at DePaul University best known for his cheerleading the Hizbollah and his endless Smearing of Holocaust survivors,
has a completely Empty record of academic publication.

He has NEVER produced a Single paper published in a refereed Scholarly journal. Instead, he turns out one Anti-Semitic book after another.
as well as hate screeds for propaganda magazines and web sites.
His "books" are published by firms making editorial decisions based on commercial considerations rather than the quality of their scholarship.

Finkelstein's long history of Jew-Baiting is by now well known, as is his history of Vulgarity and Juvenile smear mongering.
Finkelstein has proclaimed Holocaust denier David Irving (who insists there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz) a great historian. Finkelstein's personal web site is a collection of bigotries, including death threats and pornographic cartoons, as well as countless smug smears against all Holocaust survivors.
Finkelstein's "books" have been Dismissed as Pseudo-scholarship by nearly Every serious historian to review them. He has used his position at DePaul University in Chicago to promote his open celebration of Middle East terrorism. He maintains the most intimate ties with Holocaust Deniers and he is himself considered by the Anti-Defamation League, the Simon Wiesenthal Center, and many others to be a Holocaust Denier. .."

http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=26229

Again, he no longer is even an assistant professor of anything.

 

Finkelstein's Fraudulent Charade With the UCP

The University of California Press (UCP) and one of its authors are involved in a Fraudulent charade designed to garner publicity for a trashy book by an anti-Semite whose main audiences are neo-Nazis in Germany and Islamic extremists in the United States. The author is someone you’ve probably never heard of. His name is Norman Finkelstein. I compiled some of the most (*)(*)(*)(*)ing criticisms of Finkelstein in an article JBooks.com - Interviews and Profiles: The Hazards of Making The Case for Israel for Jbooks.com; here's a sampling:

Finkelstein is a transient academic who describes himself as “in exile” at DePaul University because he has been -- by his own account -- “thrown out of every school in New York.”
...A German writer has observed that “seldom has a Jew been more celebrated by Brown propaganda that Finkelstein.”

Another writer aptly described him as a Jew who “supports anti-Semitism.” Gabriel Schoenfeld has labeled his views as “Crackpot ideas, some of them mirrored almost verbatim in the propaganda put out by Neo-Nazis around the world." His books do not sell in America, but they are best-sellers among the growing number of neo-Nazis in Germany.

Finkelstein boasts, “Never has one of my articles been published in a scientific magazine,” and for good reason. As Peter Novick, whose book The Holocaust in American Life Finkelstein characterized as “the initial stimulus for [his] book,” wrote,

As concerns particular assertions made by Finkelstein . . . the appropriate response is not (exhilarating) ‘debate’ but (tedious) examination of his footnotes. Such an examination reveals that many of those assertions are pure invention. . . . No facts alleged by Finkelstein should be assumed to be really facts, NO QUOTATION in his book should be assumed to be accurate, without taking the time to carefully compare his claims with the sources he cites"[1].
Even David Cesarani, a Left-wing scholar, points out Finkelstein’s “Questionable use of sources,” “Selective Quotation,” and “other Misuse of evidence"[2].​

Novick called Finkelstein’s book “Trash” and a “21st century updating of the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion.’” When the Very professor who stimulated Finkelstein warns readers not to believe him, that warning must be taken seriously...."

Alan Dershowitz: Finkelstein's Fraudulent Charade With the UCP

And again, Finkelfuhrer was Fired from his aSSistant profeSSorship at Depaul.

 

trythis.

Posting links to discredited websites like camera and claiming stuff to be from the The Simon Wiesenthal Center when it actually comes from some trash zionist website says it all and then putting that well known joker Dershowitz on the end who has been boycotted by university students through out America is very funny.

The majority of the Political Science department at DePaul sided with Finkelstein and he was not fired he resigned.Please stick to the facts and stop making stuff up.DePaul called him "a prolific scholar and an outstanding teacher".The American Association of University Professors also came down on Finkelsteins side.

 

Why is it so Trendy with Far Left (Including Non Practicing American Jewish far Leftists ) to Side With Arabs & embrace Anti-Zionism ?

 

Which is you telling me in response to my statement that there was an anti jewish pogrom in aden. Aren’t you?

Ive responded to that several times now by pointing out that this pogrom was in Aden not Palestine and not Israel. Ive said this again and again. What more do you want?

On here civility is required in our discourse. You can believe whatever you wish, you just can’t go calling people names.

Of course the Jewish, as well as the British of course. Do I really need to list the many examples of jewish terror attacks beenthere? Really? You wouldn’t contend that only arabs attacked jews would you?

I have already responded to you, every time. If ive not specifically addressed a link or quote, its only an addition to a point youve already made or its not relevant to our discussion. Get that?
Any specifics Ill be happy to explain.
But are you really saying that you wont address me respectfully unless I answer in a way you deem fit?

Ok lets have it your way....Ill address every point youve made right here;

The British. They had invaded the land, occupied it and ruled it against the wishes of the very people who had helped them get rid of the Ottomans. They denied the political rights of the majority of the inhabitants and therefore caused the violence just as the British caused the violence in America by denying Americans proper representation. Added to that was the influx of jewish people who fully intended to take over the entire land as your own link demonstrates.

The Arabs of Aden.

There...that was easy. Is there something ive missed out that means you cant be respectful to a fellow poster and call me by my forum name or should I just start calling you a bum because I feel like it?

Wow. Cant you even wait for an answer before telling me Ive taken too long?

I’ll prove wiki wrong with just one little fact – Israelis were sitting hundreds of miles inside Egypt. And settling inside its northern frontier.

At what point are we talking about? Oh how about the bit where the germans were sitting deep inside Russia trying to create liebensraum. Say at Stalingrad. Is that clear enough for you?

As for Soviet offensives, they were still in Russia for much of it. Still an offensive war on their part was it or not?

Was that a defensive or offensive war that both they and the Egyptians were conducting then when in their own territory?

It was an offensive when they entered Germany. Just as the allies were on the offensive.

Nothing but insults?

Like this?

Or this ?

Yeah nothing but insults right? Is there even one thing here moderators would have a problem with? Please enlighten us..

 

Joan Peters? LOLOLOL.. She has been debunked six ways to Sunday.

She's not a scholar. She writes cookbooks.

 

My my trying to undermine Finkelstein by pointing to Alan Dershowitz of all people.

Lets hope a debate on this particular point keeps up. Theres loads of video footage of AD getting his fraudulent ass handed to him.

It really started with NF accusing AD of being a plagiarist re The Case for Israel.

The great thing about NF is he puts all the correspondence over the various controversies on his website for all to read. While AD stoops so low as to even lie about Human Rights Watch reports.

 

I know but these guys, and guys like Alan Dershowitz love stuff like that.

 

Its just what happens when you examine the evidence from all sides and dont assume that either arabs or jews are per se somehow all deceitful barabarians like most right wing Americans do.

You guys only read pro israeli and american christian zionism propaganda stuff. Thats why you cant win, you dont have the wide background of experience in the debate because you dont know as much about all that has went on.

But i guess you didnt want an answer, you just wanted someone to call you a bum or fascist or something. Sorry about that.