Democratic anger over Israel reaches new heights

The ****ing solution is to let aid through.
Israel ****ed up, big time. Protecting innocents is more important than hunting Hamas. When Israel kills 20 times what Hamas killed, Israel becomes the problem, not Hamas. Why aren't you worried about Israel killing Palestinians like you are about Hamas killing Israelis? Palestinian civilians are just as innocent as Israeli citizens.
Even if Hamas killed another 5,000, how is that worse than Israel killing 30,000?
Israel could simply man the border, on full alert, and stop hunting Hamas. Hamas wouldn't be able to do a damn thing, and Palestinians could get food and rebuild.
It is FAR better that not another member of Hamas get killed if it means that Palestinians will stop being killed. No, that will not mean that Hamas will be free to kill again. It was Israel's dropping the ball after being warned by both Egypt and their own soldiers that allowed Hamas to get through. That won't happen again, unless it is on purpose.
Stop all fighting immediately and rebuild Gaza.

 

Wrong. There are several terrorist organizations in Judea and Samaria (baptized West Bank by a world that would like to erase even the memory of the existence of the Jewish people in the region): Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, PFLP, Lion's Den, and affiliate organizations. Hamas is also active in Lebanon, firing rockets, missiles, and anti-tank missiles into northern Israel alongside Hezbollah.

Here's a list of terrorist attacks on Israelis in Judea, Samaria and Israel:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/comprehensive-listing-of-terrorism-victims-in-israel

 

You realize that Israel is launching attacks on a daily basis that exceeds much of that list, especially when combined with their starvation tactics, right? You could fill a novel-sized book with just the names of the dead since October 7th, let alone all those killed before that. And the number of wounded would fill multiple volumes.

This war needs to end. It no longer matter if enemies are defeated. Otherwise, Israel will not stop until everyone is dead, causing the radicals they create to not stop until everyone is dead. The ONLY solution is negotiation, mercy, and humanity. It is completely unrealistic to think this will end militarily.

 

Thanks for your kind response.

I did not mean to evade your question about Jewish life in Islamic countries but wanted to find a more recent source that I hope is credible.

First, I never doubted that Israel's government is far more tolerant of gays, non Jewish religions, atheists etc than its Islamic neighbors.

Frequently Muslim men hold hands. (I'm not suggesting the Bush is a Muslim)


That's why I was more than a little perplexed the first time a young Muslim who was one of my multiple Muslim hosts took my hand and held it while we were in public. Once I saw that it is a common practice, I wasn't as uncomfortable and frequently was kissed on the cheek and once on the nose by other Muslims who"kidnapped" me in order to treat me to humble food and drink, show me local archeological sites, meet and communicate with friends in the village square for hours at a time.

Even though I haven't been back to the Middle East, I don't doubt that many things have changed in about 50 years both in Israel and the Islamic world.

Re:

I think that since the cultural differences are so profound, it's difficult to say that one is inherently "...more angry and primitive..." than another.

For example, I can't imagine that a typical working Westerner would stop what he was doing in order to take me sight seeing, insist on paying for my food and drink and take me to converse with his friends for hours.
I made no effort to hide the fact that I was an American Christian (infrequent pew warmer) and the only time I was even close to snubbed was by a Syrian army officer who apologized for not sharing a room with me because it might jeopardize his career.

Re:

I'm sure that you're not suggesting that about 2.2 Million people enclosed in one of the most densely populated patches of land on the planet don't need and deserve hospitals and schools.

I've written before and I firmly believe that most IDF members are undeterred by "human shields".
If about 15,000 dead children in Gaza and the eyewitness testimony of "Breaking the Silence" is not evidence enough, maybe two Jewish sources will help you to reconsider. (1), (2)
Re:

Don't you see that Israel's well defended, illegal and provocative "Settlements" in violation of UN Resolutions # 242 and # 338 with their trespassing women and children also serve as Human Shields for IDF to hide among and then condemn Muslims for attacking?

Additionally, I went to a German Language and Literature school (Goethe Institute) before university (Albert-Ludwig Universitat). About half of the class happened to be IDF members who were not squeamish in their racist and hate filled rhetoric about "Palestinian cockroaches", "2 legged dogs" etc.
So, I don't think that it's accurate to deny that there's plenty of hate on both sides and I regret that it shows no sign of abating in the near future.

I'm fully aware that both sides of every conflict use propaganda to sway public opinion and will admit that my time among the Muslims and in Palestinian refugee camps has enabled me to hear and see a side of the story that rarely makes it to pro Israel Western MSM. (3)

I believe that it is self evident that Hollywood & Western MSM churns out hyperbolic and melodramatic Holocaust stories and "documentaries" almost daily while I have yet to see anything about the Nakba and the stories of its survivors in over 60 years.

I don't think that the subliminal effect on a society of hearing only one side of a story can be denied but, even still, about 1/2 of America's future policy makers believe that Israel is committing genocide. (4)

Re:

I heard the same thing in the early 1970s soon after coming home from S.E. Asia and certainly didn't plan on wandering into the '73 War.
I used to write yet another Muslim who "kidnapped" me for a few days near Mosul, Iraq and have family members in the US Military who are stationed in the region.

Certainly, based on what is going on now, you're right to postpone any trip to the region.
I don't doubt that Israel is a fascinating country and had planned to go there and on to Egypt until the '73 War broke out.
If I had to live in the region, I'm sure that I would be most comfortable in either Israel or Turkey.
I recognize that with US and German aid, Israel, proper, is an open and free society where I would be more comfortable because of my Western background, support for women's rights, appreciation of good food and wine, more candid MSM and innumerable archeological wonders and much more.

I hadn't intended to write so much but at least hope that I have answered your question(s) fully.

Enjoy your day,






(1). "The Israel Massacre Forces"
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-the-israel-massacre-forces-1.5962852

EXCERPT "The shooting on the Gaza border shows once again that the killing of Palestinians is accepted in Israel more lightly than the killing of mosquitoes"CONTINUED


(2). "Independent investigation details Israel’s deliberate targeting of civilians in Gaza"
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/independent-investigation-deliberate/

EXCERPT "A new independent medical fact-finding mission in Gaza has detailed Israel’s deliberate killing of Palestinian civilians in its summer 2014 attack, codenamed Operation “Protective Edge.” Acts documented in the investigation include the use of human shields, close-range murder of civilians, targeting of medics, and more.

The report based on fieldwork and research conducted by Physicians for Human Rights-Israel (PHR-Israel), in conjunction with several other human rights and medical organizations, sits at a bulky 237 pages. PHR-Israel, in its words, “recruited eight independent international medical experts, unaffiliated with Israeli or Palestinian parties involved in the conflict,” leading specialists in numerous medical, health, and human rights fields. Jennifer Leaning, the Director of the Center for Health and Human Rights Department of Global Health and Population in Harvard University’s School of Public Health, was among those chosen to oversee the report."CONTINUED


(3). “Studies continually show strong pro-Israel bias in western media”
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/studies-continually-show-strong-pro-israel-bias-western-media-881718416

EXCERPT “Mainstream western media outlets are, by and large, infused with a pro-Israeli ideological bias that colors nearly all mainstream Western reporting on Israel-Palestine.

Israel is assumed to be good, peaceful, and like ‘us’. The Palestinians, meanwhile, are backwards, violent, and foreign. These are the assumptions that most western news outlets start with..." CONTINUED


(4). "Half of Young People Say Israel Is Committing Genocide Despite Strong Media Bias"
https://truthout.org/articles/half-...ommitting-genocide-despite-strong-media-bias/

EXCERPTS "The poll findings are a powerful show of young peoples’ support for Palestinian rights despite widespread repression.

According to polling conducted this week by The Economist/YouGov, 49 percent of people aged 18 to 29 say that they think Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians, with 24 percent saying they disagree and 27 percent saying they’re not sure." CONTINUED

 

I would be thrilled to just leave the Jews alone, all for it. The trouble is they have been belligerent players ever since they were granted mideast land by the Balfour, British government.

They attacked and killed US sailors in 1967, and they attacked the WTC in 2001. They control our government by way of AIPAC and other deceptions, the Israeli government is a bloodthirsty enemy of the US.

Wake up and smell the napalm Doofen. The enemy is amongst us.

 

On, so they are the enemy. If you were forced to go to the ME wearing a cross, star of David, pride flag, American flag, or carry a sign critical of religion/government, where in the ME would you like to be dropped off?

 

How about not wearing any of that and just being a human being?

 

You would still likely lose your head. (Unless you were in Israel)

 

you don’t get out of the country much, do you?

 

I appreciate your interest in my travels. Where in the ME is it safe for an American to travel?

 

"II. THE CRIME OF GENOCIDE 'I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly' - Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant11

"In the aftermath of World War II and the horror of the Holocaust, the Genocide Convention was adopted to deter and prevent such horrors in the future, and, failing that, to hold those responsible accountable.

"In its first opinion examining the scope, purpose and obligations under the Genocide Convention, the ICJ found 'its object on the one hand is to safeguard the very existence of certain human groups and on the other to confirm and endorse the most elementary principles of morality.'12

" The Genocide Convention recognizes responsibility at both the State level and of individuals, and calls for accountability at both levels."

https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2023/10/Israels-Unfolding-Crime_ww.pdf (P. 5/44)

 

I just wore whatever I could find that provided protection from the elements that included relentless sunlight, random sand storms and scorpions.
I also just had a small backpack, no tent, my old Army sleeping bag and as my clothes wore out, I just bought what I could find to wear along the way.

Among the essentials was a large piece of heavy fabric for cover during sand storms that sometimes lasted for 2 days. After you've covered yourself as much as possible, it's important not to lie down to sleep because the sand will cover you and you'll suffocate.
I also carried water, fruit, bread to last through the storm where I slept while sitting up.

No matter what I wore, my red beard and blue eyes gave me away as a Westerner. Even though I slept in the parks, around mosques, among archeological ruins and in the homes / tents of people who would give me rides, I don't recall any hostility toward me because I stood out as an obvious Western Christian (albeit infrequent pew warmer).
If anything, I was frequently treated as some sort of celebrity by people who had never seen a Westerner before.

Among the innumerable cultural differences is the obligation Muslims feel to be kind and generous to travelers.
For example, in the more remote areas, many Muslims will leave some form of shelter, water, fruit and other snacks in front of their tents for travelers.
The concept of "private property" is very different because the desert belongs to everyone.

Even though I was strongly advised not to go to the Middle East at the time and got caught in the '73 War, I don't think there will ever be a time when the Middle East is "safe".

Finally, I suppose what is "safe" and not safe varies from person to person. I can only relate that I never felt threatened or endangered during the 10 - 11 months I spent among the regional Muslims.

Thanks and enjoy your weekend,

 

Israel will be messing with this for another 2 years then Biden can retire. Democrats fussing is only stuff to let the press have something to write about.

 

As you probably know, there has been fighting for control of Canaan-Palestine-Israel long before the ancient Hebrews invaded Canaan, massacred, enslaved or expelled its existing population so I strongly suspect that Palestine's pre existing population will be resisting attempts to systematically exterminate them and steal what little land they have left for much more than "...another 2 years..."

There would have been a chance for a peaceful resolution of issues if Israel's ruling right wing element had not violated UN Resolutions # 242 and # 338 and essentially stolen what was called "disputed territory " and littered it with "Settlements" / Human Shields that pollute long pre existing Palestinian wells and farmland with wastewater and raw sewage. (1)

Even before what ethical Jews (2) and non Jews are condemning as today's genocide in Gaza, there have been few tactics too filthy for Israel's right wing Zionists to employ in the persecution and, now, genocide of Palestine's native residents.

I am sorry to say that I do not think that there will ever be a just and durable peace in the Levant as long as the US Government policy makers in AIPAC's pocket continue to fund right wing Israeli genocidal criminality.

America's unconditional support of Netanyahu's genocidal agenda has done almost as much to empower Islamic extremists as America's $ Trillions (3) have done to aid and abet genocidal Zionist extremists.

Finally, I can't think of any brutally occupied people throughout history who have not resisted their cruel occupiers and I don't believe that the Palestinians will be the first tormented group to meekly accept the oldest and and most barbaric foreign funded occupation / genocide in modern history.

Thanks,




(1). "The devastating environmental effects of Israeli settler-colonialism in the West Bank"
"Israeli settlement expansion is not only illegal, it is also destroying Palestine's environment through the urbanization of the West Bank."
https://mondoweiss.net/2022/01/the-...israeli-settler-colonialism-in-the-west-bank/

EXCERPT "Israel dumps 80% of the waste products generated from Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank. This in turn, “[pollutes] the Palestinian earth and water supply, while Israeli settlers in the West Bank – who produce similar amounts of wastewater to the Palestinian population, despite being outnumbered more than six to one – deliberately poison the water, land and livestock of nearby Palestinian villages”. This means that every year over “2 million cubic metres of raw [untreated] sewage flow into the valleys of streams of the [Palestinian] West Bank…[causing] severe damage through the West Bank… " CONTINUED


(2). “Jews Against Genocide statement and action”
http://www.ijan.org/uncategorized/jews-against-genocide-statement-and-action/

EXCERPT “We, Jews Against Genocide, came to Yad Vashem, Israel’s memorial of the genocide committed against Jews, to honor the Palestinian children who are dying in a genocide committed by Jews.

We brought dolls to symbolise the children of Gaza, and tried to bring a glimpse of the horror that Gazan’s face, to Israel’s doorstep. We hope to show Israel, and the world, the absurd reality of using the memory of one genocide to justify another.” CONTINUED


(3). "The Costs to American Taxpayers of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: $3 Trillion"
https://www.wrmea.org/003-june/the-...israeli-palestinian-conflict-$3-trillion.html
By Thomas R. Stauffer

EXCERPT "Similarly, aid to Israel—and thus the regional total—also is understated, since much is outside of the foreign aid appropriation process or implicit in other programs. Support for Israel comes to $1.8 trillion, including special trade advantages, preferential contracts, or aid buried in other accounts. In addition to the financial outlay, U.S. aid to Israel costs some 275,000 American jobs each year."CONTINUED

 

Silly hypothetical.

I know that Kristi Noem just added South Dakota to the list of 20+ states in this country where "free citizens" are not allowed by their governments to say bad things about Israel. They cannot participate in boycotts of Israeli products.

Wake up and smell the napalm Doof, Israel by way of AIPAC and countless domestic enemies, controls every move of the US government, and even some state governments.

 

WW2 was a battle against a genocidal maniac for the future of the planet, that could have gone either way.
This isn't that. Not even close.

 

Dodge. We both know the answer.

 

Hamas cannot be comprised with. It can not be negotiated with.

 

I think you meant Netanyahu.

 

Hamas is a weak terrorist organization, not the Nazi army. There is a huge difference. Israel does not need to kill thousands of innocent people to contain/destory/overpower Hamas.

 

Funny how Israel is locked in fierce battles in hospitals. Surely Hamas fighters wouldn't be in hospitals, would they? I heard Israel arrested 480 Hamas militants at a hospital. There is no such thing as civilians among these people.

 

Presuming you want to kill Hamas, this would be a genocidal statement. Statements like this from Netanyahu's regime are why people are saying Israel wants genocide.

 

How exactly is the pier Biden plans to build going to help the starving Palestinians? If Israel is now blocking air by land, why wouldn't it block aid by sea as well?

 

We both know you offered a most silly hypothetical.

I'm not in the mideast, and never will go there. I'm in the US of A and in Florida where I live and 20+ other states it is a crime to criticize or boycott Israel.

 

You are very wise to stay away. Thats why I support Israel; its the only place I can go where my beliefs are not a crime.