Did the gop fall into this trap?

To be honest I don't know what is going through the minds of Republican leadership. I almost think that the current bunch of clowns in the primaries are merely there to shield Romney from any serious criticism allowing him to emerge unscathed and 'moderate' afterwards. His positions seem 'reasonable' in comparison.

I think the Republicans underestimated Obama's lack of spine. Consider the debt-ceiling debacle. Obama went in wanting a clean raise of the limit whereas the Republicans wanted X (can't remember exactly) in cuts. After the negotiations the Republicans came out with more than X in cuts. How weak of a negotiator does one have to be?

To a large extent the Republicans have painted themselves into a corner, in their desire to oppose Obama and embrace tea-partyism they pushed to the right in order to criticise every move of Obama's but when Obama promptly followed them to the right they had no back up and couldn't simply climb down. One must also ask how much they believe their own positions and how much amounts to posturing. For example Gingrich changes his position based on how the wind is blowing whereas someone like Perry seems far too idiotic to do such a thing and may believe his own ideas (perhaps I'm being unfair).D

Most of this is idle speculation, both parties are bought and sold and hence any policies tend to be payments-in-kind to benefactors of the parties and politicians. Are the terms right and left legitimate when both parties are owned so fully? Due to this similarity the parties tend to focus on minor fringe issues to emphasise their differences (e.g. abortion). The same is true of the Conservative and Labour parties in the U.S. and Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael here in Ireland. It is not the difference between choosing a Keynesian and a Monetarist but the difference between a pro-choice person who wants to lower taxes by x% and a pro-life person who wants to lower taxes by x+.1%. One emphasises abortion, homosexuality etc. in order to appear different. Just my opinion.

 

Nice perspective!!

 

Maybe the GOP is just so crafty that they took the position that the poor should pay more and the rich should pay less, in order to get democrats to take up the position that the poor should pay less?

I don't think that's it. But it could be. I'd like to think so. So far the GOP has seemed only stubborn to me, which makes them a pain in the butt, but if they're stubborn and crafty, then they become all kinds of useful that I never gave them credit for.

 

They went so far to the right, they became Chinese.

 

That's Stretching It Lol

 

If it is a Republican plan to shift the centre further right (as it has been shifting since the 80's) then fair play to them but it doesn't explain Obama's jumping on board. Perhaps he just lacks spine or is bought and has no real strategy.

 

I suspect that in times like these, having everyone angry at something you've done is probably a good sign.

 

That's what I was thinking. Odd.

I haven't followed this whole GOP payroll tax cut thing. Sounds like the Dems were playing gotcha politics to try to rope the GOP into a corner to make them look bad, instead of simply focusing on that which is needed for the country.

But that is something I'm just guessing right now.

 

Ok, I'll bite: huh?

 

I wish we would have a president who wouldn't be afraid to make the deep cuts in social security, defense, and medicare that need to be done in time to save our grandchildren.....when you run the actual numbers, it seems like it might be too late for us and our kids.

 

This can turn into a boomerang for Democrats. They will have to agree to more than they wanted to avoid the same burning ring of fire two months from now.

 

When you run the numbers the debt to GDP ratio is important:



If the U.S. started booming after WWII it can do so again. The problem is that austerity weakens growth. Although the conditions aren't the same it is not unlikely that Keynesian policies will yet again save the day.

EDIT: A slightly more up to date graph

 

See, I think this is another thing the gop does that makes them look weak and doesn't accept responsibility. They use this "gotcha" catch phrase instead of just dealing with things. Now they have normal citizens using it and it clouds judgement. Very interesting.

 

I don't see that. but you could be right.

 

How can my judgement be clouded if I have already said I'm not caught up on the issue?

I'm used to Dems playing gotcha politics, is all. And that's true; feel free to attempt to deny it if you can.

 

Ok, please explain what is " gotcha" politics. Is it in the dictionary? Is it only something that one party does? Where did it originate? I mean this thinking is part o the reasons the gop has problems. This thread is about why gop members keep getting trapped. I know I started it. It was hopeful there would be some ideas as to how to turn it around for the gop. I hope there is more than "gotcha" politics.

 

"Gotcha" politics is the attempt by one group or person to maneuver an opposing group into a position in which they cannot look good in public perception.

It places the value of besmirching the opponent above the value of getting something accomplished.

Democrats are, without a doubt, far better at gotcha politics than they are protecting the Constitution.

 

So when rep try to block bills just to mske the President look bad those are attempts at "gotcha" politics.

 

Sure - if you can find such a thing. I'll need an example, and then we can talk about it.

 

As an Independent, leaning Left, I would like to give the credit to Democrats. . .
But, really, it is clear that, over the last 3 years AT LEAST, the Republicans have been playing that nasty little game you describe. . .and have reaped some (damaging for America) reward from using those bordering unethical games. ..

And now, the Democrats have decided to give the GOP some of their own medicine. . .VERY successfully, I might add!

GOOD for the Democrats! I really wish the GOP would learn something from this, but I'm afraid they won't!

Instead, they will play the SAME games in 2 months, which will give the American people another chance to see the "let's cut the tax for the very wealthy, but let's screw the middle class workers" philosophy that worked so well this time!

I just can't wait!

I think that the new Democrat (and White House) strategy of giving "enough rope" for the GOP to "hang themselves" is working like a charm!

Let's see if it will work just as well in 2 months! So nice to have a chance to repeat this little success story!

 

Sounds like the rep aren't good at this " gotcha" tactic and hate that they get busted on it everytime the dems supposedly use it. News flash. You can't be the pot (rep) and call the kettle (dems) black.

 

Maybe that's why the public keeps losing respect for them. Just opening up the discussion further.

 

I really wish you would read the posts or pay attention to the news. There's all types of current topics going on the rest of the world knows about.

 

How's this for gotcha politics?

 

non-answer noted.