Gaza Agreement ; Hamas prepares for unity government.

Good, slowly but surely we are moving forward....Russia is a criminal law-breaking state. Can we agree on that based on your post?

 

That spurious comparison doesn't follow since Israel's sphere of influence, unlike Russia's, is not liable to any realistic threat by hostile NATO forces nor facing concerns in July that UK and US troops are scheduled to participate in joint military exercises close to its border as part of NATO’s Rapid Trident manoeuvres.

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I've never claimed anything to the contrary.

 

LOL, right, Israel is merely in a de-jure state of war with half the arab world and surrounded by 20+ states rejecting its right to exist. Israel is occupying a tiny 0.2% of the Middle Eastern land and is outnumbered 75:1 against arab only (excluding hostile iranians pakistan etc). Claiming that tiny Israel surrounded by enemies is not in a precarious state while the russian behomot sitting on 1/6 of the planet's dry land is in real danger is the most ridiculous statement I've heard in a long time.

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Not explicitly, you merely tried to deflect, point finger elsewhere, blame the victim (Ukraine) and the rest of the west for Russia's criminal behavior.

 

Realistically, nobody can be a militaristic threat to the world's major superpower or it's proxy states'...Nobody.

 

Exactly, and Russia is still a military superpower so you've just completely destroyed your own excuses and justifications of Putin's invasion lol


that being said Israel unlike Russia is a one nuclear bomb country, one bomb = no Israel and all those dead Israelis won't feel an iota better if the West retaliates against the perpetrator , whoever it is...which btw the West won't do.

Ps It's just amazing how your ideology clouds your mind, seriously trout, claiming that the Russian behemoth is in danger while Israel is safe is one of the most absurd things I've seen.

 

I haven't destroyed my own argument at all. Do you understand what the word "nobody" means? There are too many assumptions made in your last sentence to warrant any comment.

 

I think I do, in the context of your post I think it meant that nobody can realistically threaten Russia which is a military superpower with thousands of nukes and an armed to their teeth million man army and therefore your attempts to blame Russia's actions on their security concerns are totally baseless.

 

Weird logic. Why shouldn't the destruction of even one major Russian city - even a minor Russian town- be a security concern. Explain, please.


Which American city or town would you be nonchalant and unconcerned about should it be threatened ?

 

ask trout, it's his "theory". It's he who claims that nobody can realistically threaten Russia after claiming that Russian aggression, invasion and annexation are caused by external threats. I am actually making fun of it and its inconsistencies.

 

Right.

Kind of pointless when someone is the only one exiting an elevator denying they farted.

Might I suggest you keep walking Trout.

Either that or why not just call Ukrainians Zionists and Russians Palestinians and get it over and done with.

 

You're baiting trout ?


Trout's logic seems sound.

 

This coming from someone who said Israel has no security concerns and is not being threatened by Hamas and has no right to defend itself against Hamas. Uh right.

This coming from someone who was on this forum ranting about the US going outside its country to search and kill terrorists who are a threat to its nation.

 

Is this gleaned from personal experience ?

 

Right... Trout's logic: he claims that nobody can realistically threaten Russia after claiming that Russian aggression, invasion and annexation are caused by external threats.

 

I specifically said, nobody can realistically threaten the world's major superpower. Since when has Russia been the world's major superpower.? Now get your reading glasses back on, there's a good chap.

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Thanks moon, that's because it is.

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Nope, that's your fantastical interpretation based on conjecture.

 

Russia is #2 military power on the planet which makes it a superpower. Duh
http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp

 

Funny things happen to fact when processed by certain individuals.
I said - because it's factual- that Israel's plea to ' self-defence' with regard to its occupation of Palestine has been STRUCK DOWN BY THE ICJ

This, in itself, will form a powerful case against Israeli war crimes when the Palestinian unity government decides to act.

 

Seems anything but sound or logical to me. It is my contention he has engaged in partisan rhetoric and therefore its subjectivity renders it illogical and so inconsistent as to render the point he was making absurd.

His comments you then received back were no more baiting then your responses or mine now. The fact we do not agree with either of you and question it does not make it baiting. The fact you suggest when we debate and challenge your positions we bait you, ironically could be baiting.

We are not baiting because we disagree fundamentally with your partisan rhetoric that we contend makes no logical sense and sets up one standard of behaviour for Americans and Israelis and another for Russians and Hamas or anyone else you agree with..

If the Ukraine was anti Israel and/or anti US and Russia was pro Israel and/or pro US I am sure you and Trout would have no problem reversing your positions.

 

Sorry but that makes no sense.

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I'll let you deal with that bilge moon, that's if you can be bothered. I know I can't.

 

...Er, number one comes above number two. The number one is a threat to number two which is why it is number one. Nobody comes remotely close to U.S global hegemonic supremacy - both militaristically and geo-strategically. The historical record since the end of WW2- as William Blum has shown - illustrates the rise of U.S power as a result of conquest and destabilization has grown to to the extent that it has shaken off all potential competing hegemons. The growth in American power and the corresponding rise in global instability since WW2 go hand in hand.

 

Nonsense, number one and two are virtually equal threats to each other, have you entirely missed the cold war concept of MAD? Duh!

 

MAD is precisely one of the reasons why nobody is a realistic threat to either the U.S or Israel. But I was actually talking about conventional power. Whatever the case, my point stands - namely, nobody can be a threat to the worlds major superpower or it's major ME proxy ally, Israel. Israeli victimhood is exposed for the crud that it is.

 

You can repeat it 100 times but it won't change the reality that it equally applies to military superpower #2 Russia and destroys your excuses and justifications of Russia's illegal aggression and annexation, moreover as your buddy moon noted, the destruction of even one city in Russia is a security threat, it's a 100 times bigger threat in tiny densly populated Israel. Last but not the least, the arab/muslim world has not demonstrated its adherence to MAD, given the number of relegious zealots and suicide bombers/their supporters in their midst what worked between the USSR and the US may not work in the Middle East.

 

I will now bring this topic right back to topic and that is Hamas and Mr. Abbas' Palestinian Authority have unified.

Hamas is a terrorist organization and by choosing to embrace it Mr. Abbas not only chooses but embraces terrorism against Israel.

Hamas is a terrorist organization because:

1-it believes that attacking and killing civilians and non civilian targets is a legitimate expression of political will;
2-it believes Israelis, Jews and anyone supporting Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state should be attacked and killed;
3-it believes that this violence should continue until such time as Israel no longer exists as a Jewish state and all Jews are removed from the Middle East as stated in its constitution
4-it has engaged in the killing and torturing of anyone who disagrees with it including Palestinians;
5-it openly refuses to sign ANY international conventions and treaty and does not recognize any laws but its own;
6-it believes according to its own law which it claims is based on Sharia Law and the Islamic religion, that it can and will use violence and terror until all its political goals are achieved;
7-.it has openly stated it will never abide by the principles that nations have established among themselves for the conduct of armed conflict;
8-it uses international crime syndicates and non profit organizations that break domestic criminal laws to finance its activities;
9-it uses prostitution and drug trading to raise finances;
11-it claims the method of its attacks on civilians is designed to invoke wide spread fear and chaos;
12-it claims it is a legitimate exercise to use its civilians as shields as a self defence;
13-it claims it is a legitimate exercise to use hospitals, schools,ambulances, mosques, domestic residences, government buildings, community centres as weapons of war;
14-it claims it is a legitimate tactic to attack not only civilians but hospitals, schools, domestic residences, community centres or other civilian nonmilitary structures;
15- it openly boasted of using 1-14 as the basis for its strategy during Operation Cast Lead in 2009.

The most predominant terrorist feature Hamas openly chooses is to refuse to distinguish combatants from civilians.

Abbas has chosen to join with an organization that condones and continues to believe in all of the above.

Mr.Abbas when asked directly said he would not denounce any tactics Hamas uses and has repeatedly stated he will never accept Israel as a Jewish state because he believes it can not be a Jewish state as he wants people who identify as Palestinian to be able to enter Israel and be granted Israeli citizenship and his criteria for that citizenship would be any Arab who chooses to be identified as Palestinian.

This means he necessarily supports a concept that would disband Israel as a Jewish state, by assuring the majority of the citizens would be Muslim.

Hamas at this time operates from within the Gaza Strip, and is openly allied with Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations.

Hamas also operates out of an office in Instanbul, Turkey under the full support of the Turkish President who openly admits this and that weapons and finances are administered through logistics operations out of Instanbul with the full cooperation and protection of the Turkish government, the same government that just recently declared Israel a terrorist state while stating Hamas was not a terrorist organization.

Here specifically are the tactics Hamas engaged in against Israel that Mr.Abbas has now condoned and said were necessary:

1-deliberate attacks on civilian population centers before and during Operation Cast Lead;
2- using mortar bombs, Kassam and Grad rockets, homicide/suicide bombers, and active shooters to try kill Israeli civilians;
3-using its media to create false films of allegedly dead bodies of children or civilians it claims Israeli soldiers carried out(later exposed whent he same dead bodies showed up in other films as civilians alive and well and supposedly fleeing the same soldiers days after their death);
4-launching rockets from schools, hospitals ;
5-using hospitals and schools to store weapons;
6-used as bases of operation and stored weapons in mosques;
7-booby trapped entire neighborhoods;
8-used ambulances to transport Hamas fighters and weapons;
9-used the yard of the central building of a United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) educational complex in the town of Beit Hanoun in the northern Gaza Strip as a base to launch rockets into Israel against civilians;
10-staged its command and control bases and located its weapons and munitions manufacturing and storage facilities within Gaza's most densely populated residential areas and used civilians' homes and buildings housing public institutions for its operational bases;
11- place its main headquarters during Operation Cast Lead inside Shifa Hospital in Gaza City;
12- ran A laboratory for making explosives and a rocket manufacturing plant were located in the civil administration complex in the Jabaliya refugee camp;
13-took over the homes of civilians and used them as positions from which to attack Israeli forces endangering the lives of civilians and refusing their pleas to go away;
14-used not just medical facilities and vehicles, but wore uniforms of medical personnel as camouflage.;
15-stages attempts to break the sea blockade by the IDF navy off the coast of Gaza sending civilian ships but with persons openly affiliated with Hamas and who believe in terrorism.

This is the organization Abbas now hugs and claims to be allied with.

This is the organization that not too long ago engaged in a civil war in Gaza killing Fatah members of the Palestinian Authority o r anyone suspected of supporting the Palestinian Authority.

It also shot dead civilians demonstrating against Hamas and/or rubber neck-laced others, i .e., placed rubber tires around their necks, tied them to the tires, then poured gas on them and lit them on fire.

How could any sane person who claims credibility unify with such people and claim they want peace?

This is why I would argue the unity agreement spells an end to any peace talks and state until terrorists are disarmed as was done in Northern Ireland, there will be no peace talks of any meaning and further as long as Abbas claims he will never accept a Jewish state but only a state one its majority Muslim which is what he stated, there can be no peace.

This unity agreement is in my opinion a face saving exercise by Hamas to Abbas for choosing not to make any deal with Israel.

I believe within months to come Hamas and the PA will soon enough be fighting one another. The Fatah wing of the PA and Hamas will never be allies. Too much blood has spilled between them.

 

I'm frankly losing interest in your apparent inability to rationalize logic, although I suspect it has more to do with partisan dogmatism. The point is, the US is the number one global conventional power and hegemon. By logical definition, therefore, nobody can challenge it. American dominance implies subjugation and subordination of it's enemies both geostrategically and economically. That's the bottom line. The other superpowers can not challenge US dominance which is why, contrary to the 'Israel is victim' claims by it's apologists, the latter cannot possibly be so. Israel, under the U.S umbrella, couldn't conventionally-speaking be in safer hands. Claims that it faces potential threats from this that and the other are bogus. That's all I have to say on this because we're going around in circles.