Like I said, it all has to do with the meaning you choose to attach to your life events. That is the true definition of pro-choice. Because if you choose to see that child as a burden, you will. And if you choose to see that child as a blessing, you will. Remember, opportunity often comes disguised as hardship.
And if the woman decides to end the pregnancy and finally stop the rape she has that right ...choice IS good.
This actually ties back into my OP. About choosing the meaning you attach to your life events. When you choose to look at things in a positive light, you improve not only your own life but the lives of others as well. Sometimes you can even save a life like your wife did here. Most people make little to no effort to look at anything in their lives from an optimistic angle. Much less very significant life events like pregnancy from rape. The quality of someone's mindset ultimately determines the quality of the decisions they make. This is why maintaining a positive outlook in the face of adversity is crucial to having a good quality life.
I agree with the choice part, but the fetus growing is not a continuation of the act of rape, any more than the eventual birth and growth of the child is continuation of the act of rape. Of course the process can accentuate and even perpetuate the trauma of the rape and thereby make healing all but impossible for some, but that is not the same thing. The literal rape, stops long before the damage stops, but you really can't contend that an abortion stops either rape or the subsequent devastation.At best an abortion can facilitate the beginning of a healing process. I don't think anything that happens a day or week thereafter, has the power to 'stop a rape'.
I consider a pregnancy due to rape to be a continuation of the rape. The rape just started a whole nightmare of damage and pain for the woman. Her body was violated and continues to be violated. It was damaged and continues to be damaged. The rapist wanted control, got control and will still have control if she continues with the pregnancy. He exercised power over her and will continue to do so if she has his kid. If she decides that she wants the kid, of course that's her CHOICE and I'm all for women having that CHOICE.
Not quite. You see, that first group of cells you're talking about will inevitably become a baby if left untampered with. It is essentially a biological executable file. Conversely, neither a sperm nor an egg will become anything other than what they currently are unless they are joined together with one another through conscious action. Common fallacy, though. I do hear this argument a lot. And it sounds plausible on the surface until you deconstruct it. The key words there being "medical community." You know, the same people who perform abortions. Conversely, the mothers themselves do, in fact, hold funerals for miscarried children. My best friend's sister did just that in 2006. I attended the service. It was a standard funeral, and her child's body was cremated and put into an urn. No argument here. But it might behoove you to take some of your own advice on this one. Ah, but as we always have to point out, this was the same line of thinking that was used to defend slavery. Remember - no one was forced to own slaves. It was purely a pro-choice issue.
Notice the venom that comes out of you guys when I tried to approach this topic from a sincere place that came from personal experience. And for the third or fourth time now, this all ties back to my original point. That we all choose the meanings we attach to our life events. People who choose negative meanings will believe themselves to be victims and will trap themselves in downward spirals of self-pity and self-destruction. Whereas people who choose to see opportunity in their circumstances will produce a very different outcome. You have to ask yourself; which one are you choosing? This is the true definition of "pro-choice."
wrong, natural abortions happen all the time, most women have had at least one natural abortion in their lifetime, if not many - - - Updated - - - you were trying to say rape babies prove abortion is wrong which is no more true then saying rape babies prove rape is right I have never met a baby born of rape that says rape should be allowed cause without it I would not exist .
You're ignoring the impact rape has on women, even though it has been pointed out to you. Victims of rape are more prone to suicide than other women, so think how pregnancy from rape would be even more devastating. I read about one woman who was deeply depressed to feel the fetus move. After several suicide attempts she was finally granted an abortion for her mental health. It isn't as simple as choosing how to feel.
It will if I choose to let it shape my attitude. This is what you guys keep missing. The true power of choice comes not from what happens in your life but from how you choose to see it. You don't get it. This attitude that you're using tells women that they are helpless victims. That their past defines their future and that they must carry baggage around with them for the rest of their lives. That they are damaged. That the world is unfair to them and always will be and that the only way they can ever find any type of justice is by abandoning any sense of peace mind and devoting the rest of their lives to being martyrs. Quite frankly, that's all bull(*)(*)(*)(*). That's a choice. And it's a destructive one. It is the apex of counterproductivity. I'm really sorry you went through that. I can see why you feel the way that you do. And you're not going to like what I'm about to say, but that doesn't make it any less true. Because in reality, the truth doesn't always feel good. 12 years old is extremely young. And that definitely makes the experience even harder to process. But ultimately, she chose to see those events in the way that she did. And that shaped the outcome of her life. The resources are out there for those that truly want them. For those who truly desire change. But what you seek, you shall find. And if you seek victimhood, that will be your destination. No one can change that but you. And it all starts in the mind. Additionally, you have also chosen to allow this event to shape your own attitude on this subject as you attempted to pin on me at the beginning of this post. The good news is that you still have the choice to see it differently. Because you're still here. And you can change the course of your future right this second if you truly want to. It all starts with a thought. Which starts with a choice. You speak a lot of people being forced to do things. But when you make people a slave to their past - to their story - you deny them the freedom to choose their own future and ultimately force them into a lifetime of pain.
So you think a woman choosing to have a child is giving up control to a rapist, but a woman deciding to have an abortion is taking control away from a rapist. I think a woman can take control either way, as longs as she does not allow people like you ,to define her choices in those terms. You are being as judgmental as any pro-lifer could ever be. How dare you define her as weak or manipulated or more or less victimized, by your criteria. It is not 'his' kid whether he impregnated her or not. If you think the son I raised with his mother in love for 13 years, can be redefined by a blood test, you are insane. The boy is a blessing for both of us, and not for a single solitary second does his mother see him as the 'son of her rapist'. His name is Ryan and he is the pride and joy of both of us. We go to his concerts, watch him play basketball, talk to his teachers about his education, laugh at his feeble jokes and listen to him laugh at them. She would be outraged that you dare to judge her or her choice, let alone label it as a continuation of a violent crime. You do not know this woman, and you sure as hell don't know what constitutes 'continuing rape' in her eyes. There is more than your way to perceive these events and some women will not be reading the script you wrote here.
Then you missed the point of the story completely. As you preach to us about how you think we should all be and completely miss the irony in what you are doing. Classic.
Killing a child is not stopping a rape. This is part of the problem. You're choosing to see the act of rape as existing indefinitely beyond its physical conclusion. Again, this is where the power of choice comes in. Do not choose to let a monster rob you of your humanity. Define yourself through your own actions. Choose to be a good person regardless of what the world has done to you. The rewards will be amazing. You'll see.
remember in my post that both pro-lifers and pro-choicers could learn some lessons. It's not your place to decide what will or will not rob someone of their humanity. My then- wife would have been a 'good person' in my view, if she had decided to get an abortion. Why can't people stop labeling people based on this call? No one gets it! This is about supporting the woman through the process of making the decision, not supporting the decision or the naming the result as either 'killing a child' or 'continuing a rape'. You are both using real life stories as a political football. The woman needs love, empathy and compassion along her journey.
Oh cool your jets, I didn't judge anyone . People like ME do NOT want to take away her choices. I do not even consider "personal stories" as an argument. Even if true, what holds true for one woman does NOT have to hold true for ALL woman, they are NOT cattle. And, yes, if a woman is pregnant due to rape everything I said, """ The rape just started a whole nightmare of damage and pain for the woman. Her body was violated and continues to be violated. It was damaged and continues to be damaged. The rapist wanted control, got control and will still have control if she continues with the pregnancy. He exercised power over her and will continue to do so if she has his kid. If she decides that she wants the kid, of course that's her CHOICE and I'm all for women having that CHOICE."""" ....is true. A woman may be happy happy happy with that kid but everything I said is still true.
Where do you get that the woman remains the victim ...long term? Is that your assessment of women that are raped and have an abortion or women that are rape in general? Have you been raped? First you espouse what a woman is to do with her body...then you espouse what she should do emotionally. What a bunch of pseudo-psychobabble.
There is no child involved in abortion. ....and calling it that for dramatic purposes is dishonest. You say, """Again, this is where the power of choice comes in. Do not choose to let a monster rob you of your humanity. Define yourself through your own actions. Choose to be a good person regardless of what the world has done to you.....""""" EXACTLY!..............have an abortion if you want one....Do not choose to let a monster rob you of your humanity. Define yourself through your own actions. Choose to be a good person regardless of what the world has done to you..... A woman who has been raped and has an abortion is NOT a bad person.......despite misogynists trying to tell her she is...
No what you said was not true. You don't know whether a rapist does or does not 'continue to exercise power over this victim' at all,or what constitutes a 'continuation of violence' to this woman, or for how long. You don't know (*)(*)(*)(*) and while people like you do not appear to want to take away her choices, you certainly want to label the process from the day after the rape, through the birth of the child and thereafter because it fits your talking points. She won't be free of the stigma that folks of your ilk, assigned to those choices, and neither will my son and whatever violation that is, rests on your shoulders. The boy 's gestation was not a 'continuation of rape'and neither is he, and God help my son, if he ever thinks this is what or who he is or part of who he is, or this is what either of his parents think he is. Its people like you that make it impossible to discuss telling the truth with his mother. Your attitude is a big problem and so is the Unifier's. I think I'd better step out of this debate before I get angry.
You must be angry already because you obviously didn't read my post ...because you certainly read into it a lot of things that weren't there. If you insist that your situation is the only way a woman should be or choose or feel YOU take away choice. Unlike YOU I do not judge these women and have said so....but you are too angry to see reason.
You know what. Forget it. I don't need you to admit that a couple of those lines were over the top. I understand you want to defend the right of women to choose and to validate those who choose abortion as an equally moral choice and often the only viable choice just as I do. I hope that you rethink these two of the conclusionary statements. First about how women are ceding power to their own rapist by choosing to keep that baby and second how continuing the pregnancy is 'continuing the rape'. You just can't go around talking like that.
Yes, I can post that because it's what I believe.....if you know a woman who doesn't feel that way , fine, but all women do not have to feel the same. - - - Updated - - -
I knew a wonderful beautiful girl who was brought up by her grandmother. She heard rumours about who her parents were. Once she found out she jumped off the 6th floor of a parkade and splattered her head on a fire hydrant. Her mother (M) was raped by M's dad.
