I will now prove atheists are illogical Part 2.

The thing is, I dont think I'm closed-minded. If I don't even know what I'm doing wrong so that I can't see the evidence he might have for me, how can I possibly fix that?

 

Then ask. Tonight genuinely ask him, in humbleness, open your heart, and then be mindful of the evidence that is presented. Start with something small, but you must genuinely be open to him, or you will indeed get nothing .... or at least be blind to exactly what you ask for.

Liuke TFM avoiding ALL apologetics and even going so far as to claim that it hasn't even been prsented in this thread.

If you are not open, genuinely open, you'll get nothing - not because God is not giving, but because you are blind to it.

Billions have been lead to God by the spirit. Billions. Why are YOU different? And the answer is - you are not. You are closed to God. You may not think so, but who are you fooling? Do you think you can fool God? I did.

And let me tell you Prof. when I got what I had been selfishly asking for, when I found out not only that he was real, but that he loved me fiercely and saw right past my petty and degenrative comments, but I still felt deep shame for what I has said and done to him as an atheist. It was like insulting a new born baby, only much, much worse.

There may very well be a reason you don;t want the proof you claim youwant Prof.

 

Apparently we are not through.

i am fairly certain that the other poster made the claim that he had proof of a god. Would you care to present his proof?

 

Its been done. PLease feel free to referrence Christian Apologetics at any point you wish.

But if you expect me to spoon feed you the portions of Aplogetics blindly having no idea what even interests you on the subject of your own evidenced based, but utterly unexplainable, process leading to God ... you are clearly just asking to play atheist baseball.

You've been referred to evidence, that evidence is not completely conclusive, though it is strongly suggestive ...

And your response is .... what evidence!

Let me know when you actually want to start. Because all anyone sees from you is a bunch of lazy ass excuses. So atheism is BOTH illogical and deeply lazy. Nice.

 

Although I've tried this before, I'm still game. Help me out though. And I'm really serious here. Because I don't know what to ask for. I don't want to ask for selfish things: I have a pretty bad cold and cough, and my son has one too, and I'd love for them to go away by tomorrow morning but if I ask for that and it happens, I'd probably chalk that up to coincidence wouldn't I? Is it ok to ask for that anyway on the basis that maybe evidence will start mounting up? Then I thought I'd ask him to make the street light outside flicker in the next 60 seconds. I sat there and watched it, I really did. It didn't happen. Is that because I'm not supposed to test god? Or was it just the wrong kind of test? If I can't ask for selfish things and I can't ask for something that has no effect on anyone's life, then how do I know what to ask?

I hope you don't think I'm trolling here. I'm quite a fervent atheist: let's not deny that. But I would actually like to believe, for a number of reasons, some selfish, some not. So what should I ask for?

 

Well, I have a bit of a confession myself. I felt the Holy Spirit very strongly when I wrote out that advice. God is literally waiting for you. There is no secret, there is no ritual, there just must be a genuine desire to really KNOW. If its fake in any way, God will know.

His response may not be immediate, but it will come if you are open to it. I was open, but not prepared. Just remember, you are no different than me, and God responded. God has answered millions of prayers. There is no reason HE would not do so for you as well.

 

Yes the universe as we know it has a beginning..... The reason we know this is because the universe is expanding and we can mathematically observe and calculate this.... Redshift and Cosmic microwave background both support this..... It's not like such a discovery was neatly packaged into the theory.... It was the theory itself that helped develop the technology, weird the discovery did not in any way contradict the theory.... Logic prevails that something extreme and drastic would cause the expansion and swirling of mass in order to create matter, regardless of all the observational discoveries that help to solidify the theory.....

This is just the application of simple logic here...... To claim that eternal nothingness saw rise to a one time phenomenon which created the universe is as absurd as declaring God spent an eternal existence of basically non-existence until he decided one day to create the universe......
In example #1, to claim that such a state is a one time occurrence of an eternal nothingness is highly ignorant..... It either has to return to such a state, or develop another such state within itself...... Either way, it is a continuum; we don't have to prove exactly how it's a continuum, it's simple logic merely because it's highly contradictory to logic if it were any other way!
In example #2, to claim that God, poof, appeared from nothingness is equally absurd..... We could only conclude that God, just like the logical observation of mass and the universe, is eternal having existed forever.....
This is where we run into a problem, what was God doing for the eternity before he supposably created something to both observe and also to be observed by?
Simple logic, if there is nothing to observe and nothing to be observed by; this is the very definition of nothingness, most important, eternal nothingness.....
Hence, God is nothingness without some sort of tangible and demonstrative force, having existed in tandem for eternity!

Yes, simply because it's moronic any other way; regardless of it being a divine and necessary tangible expression, or the simple mechanics of mass!

We don't need to be well versed in quantum mechanics to be able to grasp the reasoning behind a continuum or the eternal God with a tangible reflection of mass; regardless of it's attributes!

 

The truly ridiculous aspect of this entire discussion is that I could care less if you want to attribute the universe to a divine being, or simply the physical properties of mass....... Don't care!
The only thing I truly care about is that it is done in a reasonable fashion that applies to simple concepts of logical and deductive reasoning......

Hate to burst bubbles, the bible is simply a poor reflection of what simple logic displays.....
The creation story is terrible, and even then, the timeline is an embarrassment to the simple observation of light!

 

Well, there you go. That was not so hard.

What is absurd is to claim that you have any knowledge with any degree of certainty about what came before the Big Bang. That is is simple logic.

What God is or why he did things is entirely speculative. The fact that we have had Prophets that claim God is real, answered prayers, etc. indicates there there is a probability of there being a God.

It would be absurd to simply equivocate about the state of something uncertain and unverifiable as if it is conclusive. Simply illogical.

CReation nevertheless happened. Quite moronic I see.

Who is claiming that a continuum created anything? A ball of pure eneregy poped into existence and exploded for unknown reasons CREATING the universe we see. That is what we know.

What came before the Big Bang is speculative at best, but the universe has a finite and definieable, even proveable, beginning. Simple as that.

 

Which is why from the very dawn of it people have said teh timeline is not literal days. Simple logic indeed. THousands of years of maing that point ... still falling on deaf ears.

 

Lets step away for a moment and declare that God had all of eternity to think about the universe and how it would be created..... Do you really think the creation story contained in the bible is the best expression he could come up with?

This is not the voice of God we are reading, it's primitive minds taking a wild stab at how the universe was created; simply because the thinking was that it must have been created by God!

 

Even if it's not literal days, epochs.... The timeline and the entire story is a contradiction to the observation of matter and light!

 

No, certainly eternal nothingness is a much more logical view right?

God would have had to somehow entertain himself, how exactly do you accomplish such a feat without something to observe? Do we begin to suppose that nothingness is entertaining?

It's logical simply because it's moronic and absurd nothingness any other way you look at it!

No, creation didn't just poof.... happen from eternal nothingness of either void or God..... It is a continuum where it has always been!

That is as far as we know, and probability displays that it being a one time occurrence from the eternal void is an ignorant line of thinking!

Yes, for the last time..... The physical universe as we now know it.... And yes, the exact form as a continuum is unknown.... speculative if you will.... This however does not change the highly logical position that it is within itself in the aspect of scale a continuum..... Simply for the poignant fact that eternal nothingness with a one time poof occurrence is MORONIC!; God or the physical properties of mass, it's moronic!

 

self-serving faith at is finest me and lots of other people believe so it must be true your just doing something wrong and it’s your fault you don’t believe like i do

 

um excuse me god if you exist can you show me that you clearly exist with more than just a feeling which might be a desire on my part for you to exist rather than actual confirmation of your existence?

Will that do as a prayer?

 

Hmm, how does God entertain himself? By creating things perhaps? Well, you are calling people Moronic for disagreeing with you ... which is the definition of logical.

Heh, what came before the Big Bang - ANYTHING but God - logic states so.

 

What do you think? "Heh God, I already have my excuse in hand to remain blind, will you oblige me to remain blind as my choice already is? Great!!!! THat was super easy!"

Good for the posture too!



Heh, NO God down here!!!! But God ... er, I mean the great nothing of infinite chance that randomly effected my back, my back sure does feels better!!! I am in a perfect position to effect homosexual marriage too!!! What a coinicidence!!!!! (Sorry, I just couldn't help myself )

 

your way is less impartial

 

ROFL! Sorry, I am feeling a bit ... whimsical.

But, there is nothing impartial about God. He either is or is not. Once again, I understand the intellectual underpinning of the 'evidence' for God. In a scientific sense, it lead straight to .... indeterminence.

That doesn't really answer the question though. Preponderance can get you to lean one way or the other, and, as such, though I dsiagree, I acknowledge that someone looking out at the wide universe can see ... no God. I accept that as a valid faith choice.

Where I have problems is with the 'modern' form of atheism that siultaneous claims that it is not claiming anything, and then spouts nonsense that comares legitimate faith to Santa. That calls genuine faith delusional. Blames it for the worlds woes.

That is .... a religion of intlerance and accusation - and I am fairly certain it has little or nothing to do with the ACTUAL intellectual underpinnings of REAL atheism.

A REAL atheist will conlude that there is most ikely no God, and then honestly attempt to answer what comes next as he or she seeks to live their lives honestly and honorably.

I am fairly certain that the HONEST answer to their being no God, so what next?

Is not - lets badger to living crap put religious people with one fallacy and denial after another. That seems .... nihilistic rather than atheistic.

COuld be wrong, but no atheists can honestly show me how the one necessitates the other. I believe there is a perfectly acknowleadgeable reason for that.

 

Science does not necessarily lead to agnistocism. You are making things up again.

The evidence for the "God of Abraham" is similar to the evidence for other Gods.

Stories from the past.

 

Neutral does not have much material of his own so he needs to make up stories about others.

 

Calling people moronic for disagreement is normally your position .. this is true.

 

As opposed to being a dick to everyone ... and then not staking out a position at all for fear of being wrong?

Looks like you got proved wrong again, and are now back to full on internet stalking mod. Great!

 

I made my point .. and you have yet to address it because you are scared.

You have built the foundation for your beliefs on sand .. if any pillar goes the whole things collapses.

Stories from the past that serve as evidence for the God of Abraham are similar to stories from the past for other Gods.

You have made no case for stories of one God over the other and I doubt you can.

 

No I clearly declared the idea of eternal nothingness whether God or void, giving rise to a one time occurrence of the universe to be moronic and highly illogical.....

And as far as entertainment, when did God start creating or has 'he' been creating universes for all of eternity?
Here's another question, if God did decide one day to begin creating, what was 'he' doing for the eternity before that?
Here's a thought, why not just 'create' an infinite continuum; which within itself is an arena of creation?
Or how about the universe is a brilliant and tangible reflection of God, there is no universe without God and no God without the universe..... Like a man looking in the mirror; if there is no reflection, he will never truly know what he looks like!

Anything is more logical than a God that poof, out of eternal nothingness decided to create light?

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

So it seems logical to believe God was existing in eternal darkness before he decided one day to create light??????
Did he have a little nightlight at least?
Did he create a great book to curl up to next to his little nightlight and then create it so that he couldn't remember having creating the book so the ending wasn't spoiled????

I will refrain from calling anyone a moron, but I will call the bible itself moronic in the light of our evolved knowledge.