Iran fired cruise missiles in attack on Saudi oil facility: Senior US official

No real choice, since America's agenda and aim is clear. It is to work to bring an implosion in Iran, taking away in the meantime each of Iran's cards that it could use to push back the Americans.

Iran already tried appeasement; it was called the JCPOA. That didn't work and it is not because of Trump. Even Hillary would have unraveled the deal, albeit with greater sophistication and with more countries on her side.

 

Anyway, it appears this round is over for now.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...d-seeks-peaceful-resolution-over-saudi-attack
US dials back Iran rhetoric and seeks 'peaceful resolution' over Saudi attack
Mike Pompeo says goal is to ‘get back on the diplomatic path’ following Trump’s remarks that the US was ‘locked and loaded’

 

The US will have to lift sanction or make some deal to allow oil sale first. I can't believe that Trump has become the voice of reason in dialing back the threats of war.

Strange times.

 

So should we all be congratulating the Houthis and is this a way of making sure they do not illustrate their new ability again - that it will be taken out on Iran?

 

Have you any suspicions as to where these bombs came from apart from Iran?

 

It didn't work because it was a bad one sided deal. Iran is the biggest source of terrorism and conflict in the region and the deal didn't make an ounce of difference in that. For them the deal was all about the Benjamins and they got that up front.

 

I have considered different theories, but knowing the issues better than most, have dismissed most other theories. Besides the fact that the drone and missile remnants look familiar enough to me, ultimately the fact that the Houthis immediately claimed responsibility (they wouldn't do so unless they had foreknowledge of the attack, which means either the Houthis or Iran or a pro Iran militia), knowing what was going on in the internal politics in Iran (the revolutionary guards were upset at suggestions of any talks between Rouhani and Trump and so was Iran's Supreme Leader) and certain other facts (including past Houthi attacks building up to this one, as well as the reaction of Iran's revolutionary guards to these stories), is clear enough evidence of what happened. That, along with the fact that I do believe the US has wiretap information and other intelligence that links Iran (but not the locations of the launch) makes the issue clear enough for me. But, at the end, I will await what the UN will have to say.

In the meantime, you can pretend as you wish, but those who need to know, know already. This round went to Iran again.

 

I agree the JCPOA was a bad deal, but for different reasons than you It, was frankly, a capitulation by Iran. And Iran getting some of its own money back in return for all it did "up front" didn't make more than a dent in the fraud that was committed against Iran.

That said, there were a few things Iran refused to capitulate on which mitigates a bit against the fraud. And those things put Iran in a position to do what I believe it should. Covertly build the bomb, using much more advanced centrifuges which Iran in the meantime has produced (it is already using the latest version of these centrifuges, which work something like 10 times faster than the old centrifuges Iran had) in a new secret location like the ones where it houses some of its missiles, and when it has completed the process, quietly test one. No need to advertise the issue. Just make sure those who need to know, get the message. For the rest of the world, we can play the same stories that they need to hear.

 

Washington has not the guts or stomach for it. They calculate the risks & price 2 high
And they are too busy dealing with the bad case of Heartburn they recently acquired
............. from the Brick thay have had to swallow regarding the abject Failure of their
.................................................................................................................................... Patriots

..............TIME TO START
.........
I know !
"We'll increase our Sanctions !"
..........................................Problem is
There is nothing left to Sanction

Mean while the Iranians & Houthis plan their NEXT devastating strike
Better to Die Fighting the bully than to sit back while you are starved to Death
.

 

Do you ever make sense?

 

The statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.

The wisdom of Mark Twain.

 

You are actually helping propaganda being inspired by the known mistrust of US/Israel, being directed to help them in this matter. The Houthis immediately claimed responsibility for the incident and had a full briefing to show how they planned and carried out the attack. The Houthis don't work with or for Israel. Stop this. You are not helping anything.

 

Do YOU ever think for YOURSELF ?
......
Or do YOU always use that MSM filter ?

 

Haven't you heard you can't quote him anymore, he was a racist.

 

But just in case you're in SLO-MOE and really don't understand
........................................................................................ I will Clarify

 

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that by estimation there were 20+ strikes on this refinery and no one was killed? Do you think it is reasonable that in a working refinery that could happen?

 

Not at all. If there had been casualties, the effort to use this incident to rally anger and support for war would be much greater. The attacks were precise and followed the pattern of other attacks attributed to Iran recently which were meant to send a message, not cause a war or cause casualties.

p.s.
When Iran shot down the US drone, it also could have (but didn't) shoot down another US spy plane flying next to the drone which had a crew inside. When the UAE tankers were attacked, the mines were put in such a way to cause an explosion, but not lead to casualties or an environmental disaster.

 

Do YOU Believe that Absurd Crap about Clements ? - Or are YOU being facetious ?
...........................Perhaps YOU could Clarify - Or are YOU "enjoying" - too much -
...................................................................YOUR own"process of grotesque self-deception" ?



FROM TWAIN, A LETTER ON DEBT TO BLACKS
https://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/14/books/from-twain-a-letter-on-debt-to-blacks.html

From the Article Regarding Clement's Letter:

Shelley Fisher Fishkin, the Yale scholar who authenticated the letter, said: ''Twain's brutally
succinct comment on racism in the letter is a rare non-ironic statement of the personal
anguish Twain felt regarding the destructive legacy of slavery.''

Sterling Stuckey, a professor of history at Northwestern University, had a similar reaction.

''It's a clear condemnation of the larger society for what it had done and was in the process
of doing to black people,'' said Professor Stuckey, who is black and who teaches Twain in
his course on the arts and history. ''It couldn't be a clearer, more categorical indictment
of racism in American life, and I'm not at all surprised to find that it came from Twain.''

.

 

More bothered about the idea that everybody points at Iran.
The country has a massive amount of satellites looking at it. The sea in front of it is packed with warships from all kinds of countries. And yet, nobody saw any cruise missile or drone. It's not captured on radar. No pictures from any satellite. Yet... "we got prove"... because we found a label "made in Iran", and the direction of the final impact.

right.

 

While the US actually claims to have satellite images and photos showing movement and flight of Iranian drones from a base in Ahwaz, after viewing all the facts and circumstances that have been revealed so far by all sides, including their comments, by assessment remains that the operation was carried out by the Houthis in Yemen. Indeed, more recent comments by people like Pompeo show that the case that the missiles and drones were fired from Iran, as opposed to Yemen, isn't at all air tight or convincing. The only other theory that would carry weight for me is that the strikes came from Iraq. All the other 'theories' ultimately are based on faulty assumptions on who benefits from this? Those assumptions are faulty because if you follow the debates between figures associated with one faction in Iran's politics, as opposed to the other faction, you will see that those close to the revolutionary guards are quite content that this posture is indeed in Iran's interests. And that, in fact, efforts to bring some sort of a dialogue between Trump and Rouhani were dangerous. Indeed, that is something Iran's Supreme Leader has clearly vetoed.

The main consideration behind the strike was rather simple and straight forward: Iran wanted to show it is capable of hitting US interests were it hurts, while doing it in a calibrated manner which wouldn't necessarily result in a huge reaction. An operation that doesn't cost lives wouldn't justify more than a limited strike on say an Iranian oil industry that isn't really selling much oil anyway due to the US sanctions. And, for good reason, the IRGC would have felt they could deter any such move, particularly after carrying out such an operation.

But there was also a message to Saudi Arabia. Like the attack on the UAE tankers, which Iran denied (and which its government, as opposed to the IRGC, might not even be entirely aware of in any case as the IRGC views Rouhani, Zarif et al with suspicion) but which served to bring to take the UAE out of any coalition of the willing against Iran, and which saw the UAE even send a delegation to Iran for the first time in many years, this attack was also meant to push the Saudis to respond more positively to various Iranian overtures to jump start negotiations with them on various issues. Something the Saudi had hitherto rejected but which they might finally see as their best option.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/saudi-arabia-should-open-dialogue-iran-save-itself
Saudi Arabia should open dialogue with Iran to save itself
It's in Saudi Arabia's interest to achieve by diplomacy what it constantly failed to achieve with its weak military

 

Another article from "Middle East Eye", which is believed funded by Qatar but which in any case, follows an editorial line that is closer to Iran's line of thinking on some of these issues than how the US/Israel or the Saudis view them, is this one. And what you read is basically an English language version of how the IRGC in Iran views (or at least claims to view) the dynamics of any armed conflict with the US.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/us-will-not-win-war-iran
Why the US will not win a war with Iran

 

I agree, but in addition to that, it is impossible to launch 20 missiles into a operating refinery where people are working effectively destroying most of the infrastructure and not kill anyone. This means the facility was abandoned prior to anything happening which means the Saudi's knew in advance.

 

So the Houthis are now averse to killing Saudis?

 

What I am saying is that it is more feasible the Saudis evacuated the refinery and blew it up themselves, scattered some missile fragments around and claimed that Iran did it. It would not surprise me to find out it was an old refinery in need of replacement anyway......

 

The Houthis wouldn't be immediately taking credit for such a thing as they wouldn't be aware of it and they wouldn't have the imagery and other data they showed to prove they were behind the attack in their briefing. Besides all that, you how badly the Saudis have suffered as a result of this, not just damage to their refinery and certain plans they had, but also to their position and prestige. For me, you theory doesn't hold water, but is something that actually the other side from Iran will want to encourage.