Is Andrew Tate's popularity among young men a result of male bashing?

You can belong to some of these groups without being a misogynist. I've met plenty of MRAs, mythopoetic guys, etc who aren't. Even the tradcons aren't necessarily misogynist, so long as they are living tradcon as a personal lifestyle and not insisting on it for others. I'm not really sure how you could go red pill without being a misogynist, though. The red pill influencers sometimes give lip service about how much they love women, but that story quickly falls apart the moment you see some of their other videos or listen to their podcasts.

 

I think a lot of it is internet culture. I think most if not all of these ways of thinking existed prior to the internet and we just didn't have labels for it. I was MGTOW (actually going my own way and not thinking much about relationships) most of my life and didn't think of that as a group identity. Today I think the internet groups these people and then group dynamics take over and they outgroup others. If women are the outgroup then that's going to lead to misogyny maybe.

 

Yes and both extremes arent too healthy for society. The woke side is pushing it although its completely unclear if they can even win it. No matter which extreme wins, it will be a loose-loose situation.

 

But we can't pretend the two are somehow equal. There's no one on the other side who has risen to the influence and extremism of people like the Tates and Fresh n Fit and others.

 

The misandry side is less concentrated, more widespread and more accepted. The Andrew Tates get so much attention because they are taboo to the mainstream, saying horrific things you aren't supposed to say and shocking people. That draws views, both for and against.

It doesn't shock anybody today when a woman says she hates men, that maleness is toxic, or that MRA equals hate speech. Misandrist screed is so prevalent nowadays that it is no longer newsworthy and doesn't draw as much vigorous attention for or against that individual speaker.

And regardless of which is worse, they drive one another, and should both be condemned. Condemning one but not the other also drive both.

 

Dude, these channels are THE biggest men's self improvement channels. They are far more mainstream than any other misandrist channel.

 

I think that's how he got his claim to fame no? He was saying the **** everyone was thinking but dared not say.

 

No, I'd say he got his claim to fame by faking an interest in men's self improvement, which he pivoted into sex trafficking and lying to men to drain their bank accounts . . . which he's now basically admitted to.

 

People watch for at least 3 reasons I can think of:

1. People watch and support them as part of lashing back against misandrist culture around them.
2. People hate watch, not to support, but to react.
3. People watch because they actually share Tate's beliefs and practices.

I believe 1 and 2 are far far greater factors than 3.

 

There may be some truth to that. Jordan Peterson also got a big following by doing support and self improvement talk to men. There appears to be a need for it not covered by traditional media.
This may be due to similar factors in counseling therapy, which is targeted almost exclusively towards women nowadays:

 

He made his claim based off of 10 second clip one liners on tiktok or twitter. Saying **** we were all thinking but not allowed to say.

Self improvement? I don't think that was the hook

 

Try watching his Carlson interview. You won't. This is ALWAYS his defense. Without fail.

 

He can say that was his mission statement I'm telling you how he hooked and grew his audience from nothing

 

I'm telling you how he actually presents himself to the public in order to get their attention and to get people to defend him. This is also known as a "hook."

 

Thats a good joke.

The feminists paint nothing but hate pictures of men for decades in all levels of extremism. I dont know who Fresh n Fit is, but Andrew Tate isnt anywhere near the absurd men hating, neither when it comes to his extremism nor when it comes to the influence of this absurd misandry.

You cant of course see it when you are part of it. Someone who was raised with the attitude that men are trash considers maybe the hastag as normal and cheers for the double standards that men could go to prison for similar hate tweets about women, making men in that sense second class citizen. Its not the same, feminists are part of the woke movement that is running the Western World into the ground.

Andrew Tate is just a business man who makes a fortune with the understandable emotional reactions.

 

The dude is on tape admitting to rape and providing instructions for men to trick women into sex work to make them money and to trick men into parting with that money. Please explain why only a feminist would have a problem with that. You shouldn't have this kind of high regard for an abusive, rapist, sex trafficking con man and you shouldn't try to pass those things of as just being a "businessman"

 

I encourage you to talk to ANYONE who actually watches and supports him. I've talked to several, including a couple on this forum, and their answer for why they started watching him is always the same: looking for male self-improvement. The misogyny doesn't typically come until later. Hell, watch ANY mainstream interview with him, and that's always his go-to branding.

 

It's a huge topic, and I've posted a couple of videos that talk about it in a positive way. Peterson is generally okay, nowhere near as harmful as the Tates or Fresh n Fit, and he's even called out Andrew Tate for the harmful effect he has on men.

 

I would say Peterson is a combination of blue pill and MRA, same as the psychiatrist in the video I posted above (though the latter even moreso). Fresh n Fit are more a combination of red pill and pickup artist, and Tate is just toxic and possibly sociopathic. All of the above gained much of their popularity due to misandrist culture to play off of.

 

I doubt that's the case. It isn't like this kind of misogyny wasn't popular before feminism and misandry, man.I don't really see much blue pill about Peterson. He's probably closer to tradcon than anything else. He even plays into the incels a LOT, especially with his ideas about "enforced monogamy" to even out the playing field. Fresh n Fit? Definitely red pill and pickup artists. They are almost as toxic and sociopathic as Tate, but unlike Tate, I don't think there are any credible claims they've engaged in sexual assault or physical abuse or sex trafficking. I'll be honest, celebrated a bit when they were demonetized on YouTube, if only because they had AGGRESSIVELY used fake copyright strikes to try to take down channels that criticized them.

 

Misogyny used to be popular because women were thought of as lesser by society. That misogyny was widespread and normative. Religion and traditional values are what made it popular. Some of that still exists, but they are the vast minority now. Misandry is more mainstream now than misogyny is.

Misogyny today is much narrower and counter culture. It gets views today because it is shocking, and taboo. The taboo is primarily what boosts Tate & Co. People who support him and the likes of him do so more out of rebellion/reaction to misandry than out of initial agreement to all he says. He is a middle finger to misandry.

The danger with him is that those who start that way can then slide down a rabbit hole. I think he knows this, and that's why he claims to be about self help. He knows he is targeting the vulnerable to play off of their pain and exploit them. I think similar of Fresh n Fit. I don't think that's true of Peterson. I think Peterson genuinely is seeking to help. The man in the video above definitely is.

 

I'm not sure if I agree here. I almost have to go out of my way to encounter misandry and specifically go looking for it. Whereas my wife has to go out of her way to avoid misogyny and plan her day around avoiding it. Hell, back in college I was regularly mistaken for being a woman and I DEFINITELY faced way more issues when that happened than I ever have since gaining some weight, cutting my hair, and growing a beard. Sorry, man, I just don't buy it. I'm not even sure how any who has ever talked to a woman about this stuff would.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I had to go out of my way to find Tate and Fresh n Fit. Shows like The View flood mainstream TV. It has been that way for a long time now. I recall when a woman chopped a man's penis off and it made the news, and shows like this cheered for it. Tate and Fresh n Fit when mentioned in the mainstream, are derided. It is extremely rare to find mainstream voices deriding misandry.

Entertainment stories, TV, and other media used to be full of misogyny. It was often about a tough strong man rescuing a helpless woman who would then immediately fall in love with him with little if any agency of her own. That trope has now been almost entirely replaced by the girlboss trope. You could not make a TV show in the mainstream today with as much misogyny as shows like She-Hulk have misandry.

It can also be seen easily in daily life. If a woman walks out into the street and shouts that all men are scum and beneath her, she may get a few eye rolls and a few hugs. If a man walks out in the street and shouts out that all women are scum and beneath him, he will get plenty of eyerolls, a lot of glares, and quite possibly a few punches to the head. If a man screams at a woman in public, many will rush to defend her. If a woman screams at a man in public, many will laugh at him and call him a loser. The mainstream supports feminism and equates MRA to misogyny.

It can also be seen in laws, policy and politics. Your vice president was selected explicitly because she is a woman. Men were explicitly excluded from consideration. My Prime Minister formed his cabinet based on gender (even though he himself is male and won't step aside). The Pay Equity Act of Ontario demands that women's work must be paid "at least as much" as men's work; not equally; no consideration for when men's work is paid less. White women have gained more from Affirmative Action programs than racial minorities have. Some schools still go out of their way to recruit women even as women frequently outnumber men as students.

This is pervasive in society across the board. Misandry is so common today that it often goes unrecognized, even when explicit.

 

I guess we will. The View may have the occasional misandrist comment, I'm sure it happens, but the show isn't dedicated to it. This is what Tate and Fresh n Fit are dedicated to. If you go looking for male self improvement on video or podcast channels, you are going to end up finding these guys. Tate used to be the most Googled man in the world. Fresh n Fit are STILL the biggest "male self-improvement" podcast. And, I'm sorry, but there is nothing inherently misandrist about being a "girl boss" or even She-Hulk, which was ENORMOUSLY unpopular and has nowhere near the reach of the other people I've talked about. The only places I see where there is an effort to explicitly hire women are spaces where men are already dominating. I agree that it isn't the right answer, but I think it is silly to call it misandry.

I have to go out of my way to find any way in which misandry affects me. And even then, most of the supposed "misandry" is bull **** spun up by incels who think that just getting rejected is misandry. Meanwhile, my wife has to inform me about her morning run because of how many times she's been stalked and assaulted by misogynists. It just isn't remotely the same.

 

Stalked and assaulted by misogynists each morning? Where do you live? I have great difficulty believing this.