Islam and non-believers

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Ronstar, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. godisnotreal

    godisnotreal Well-Known Member

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  2. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    You don't know what you are talking about. Only an atheist would try to use the Hebrew scriptures to blame Christianity for something Islam does. Sorry to burst your Bible. If you were as literate as you claim to be you would know that both Jesus and Paul told the Jews they had gotten it wrong. Jesus was especially vocal about it.

    I would be willing to bet that you don't know any Christians.
     
  3. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    Yo, genius, sorry if you're unaware of this or not, but Christians claim that Jesus is the God in the Old Testament. That means that it was Jesus (in a different form, as the Father) laying down the laws to the Hebrews. So, what you're basically trying to say is that Jesus is saying that Jesus got it wrong? That makes zero sense. There is a reason why the Tanakh is a part of the Christian canon, there's a relationship, and it isn't so Jesus can dismiss it later on in his God-life.
     
  4. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    If you are familiar with the synoptic Gospels at all, genius, you'd know that Jesus did indeed tell the Pharisees they had gotten it wrong - repeatedly.
     
  5. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    No, he said that the Pharisees were hypocrites.

    The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don’t do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else.

    Matthew 23:2-3

    Jesus also said that every law in the Tanakh is valid for basically all time, until the world is ended. So, methinks you don't know the Bible you're claiming to follow.
     
  6. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    I do, it just makes a heretic like you uncomfortable.
     
  7. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Umm, what?

    You are aware that the Qur'an was revealed throughout a period of 23 years, and that the Prophet had throughout those years encountered with Jews and Christians, right?
     
  8. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mean WRITTEN.

    there is no evidence it was revealed by some super-natural ghost or gobblin
     
  9. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Except that the Prophet was illiterate.
     
  10. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Um, the Greek poet Homer was blind.

    anyways, Muhammed was clearly not illiterate, as he authored the koran
     
  11. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because he recited it.
     
  12. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and now I see that as Muhammed himself did not actualy write the koran, it does not matter if he was illiterate.

    and yet Muhammed was a commercial trader.......and couldn't read OR write?

    bull(*)(*)(*)(*). There's no way someone would deal in commerce and have no ability to read or write.

    - - - Updated - - -

    so he didn't have to read or write.

    though im confident he was able to read, as he was a businessman
     
  13. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Lol? He was a merchant in 600AD. People didn't get MBAs back then.

    25:5- And they say: The stories of the ancients-- he has got them written-- so these are read out to him morning and evening."
     
  14. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    most merchants even back then, had some ability to read.

    but even if he didn't know how to read, it means nothing.
     
  15. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yeah, Muhammed told things to his loyal servants and they wrote (*)(*)(*)(*) down.

    doesn't mean it was inspired by God.
     
  16. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that the laws in the old testament was intended for the Jews only? It did not say that they had to convert non-Jews to the Jewish faith.

    As far as Christianity is concerned, the old testament tells US about creation, the commandments, and the prophesies of the comming of Christ. The directions to Jews do not apply. So, to apply directions for Jews in the old testament to Christians is wrong, and shows how little you know about either religion.
     
  17. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    "Valid for basically all time"??? You mean the parts about animal sacrifices and all? Stoning homosexuals and unruly kids? Not wearing mixed fabric clothing? That kind of "valid for all time"? Methinks you only know the parts you cherry pick:

    38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.


    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    Know what you're talking about.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No, he doesn't.
     
  18. godisnotreal

    godisnotreal Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying that the book of leviticus is wrong? That's quite an interesting take. Didn't you tell me to read the book of Leviticus? Honestly, you're backpedaling here. This is what christians do. They pick and choose which parts of the bible they want to follow and which they want to ignore. That's what makes christianity, as an ideological philosophy, invalid and hypocritical.

    Also, I do know quite a few christians. Here's one, for example:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...g.html&usg=AFQjCNFEa1W9Di5E391yZ9wXw6hsAi66fw
     
  19. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    No, I am saying that your interpretation of it is wrong, and I am sure as hell telling you that using the Hebrew scriptures to blame Christianity for Islam's atrocities is ridiculous. If that's the way you want it, I blame atheism for the millions of deaths under communism in the 20th century.

    You sound like every literal fundamentalist I have known.
     
  20. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    Well, it was until the Temple was destroyed, hence why Jews don't do sacrifices anymore.



    Excuse me, but you did literally nothing to counter the verse that I provided you. You have no real counter to Jesus saying that the Pharisees were correct, but hypocrites. You have no counter to a verse that says something like this: "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." You only ignore it or stick with other verses which seem to indicate that Jesus wants us to do something differently from the old ways.

    Jesus never said this, only Paul did. I know my theology, thanks. This was actually a pretty wide debate in early Christianity for quite some time.

    What's hilarious is that you are claiming that Jesus basically said that he, God, was wrong in what he told the Jews in the Old Testament. You do realize this, no?
     
  21. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.




    This is about how to cope with the Roman occupation.
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He had encountered Jews and Christians prior to writing the book. He was a trader and there were Christians and Jews living in close proximity.

    These people did not have newspapers. What do you think the source of the news was back in the day ?

    Good Grief you need to think a little.
     
  23. CJtheModerate

    CJtheModerate New Member

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    It tells them to kill gentiles.

    2 Chronicles 15:12-13 - "They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."

    Matthew 5:17 - "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
     
  24. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    What's your point? Yeah, he did business with Jews and Christians in the market place. He didn't memorize rich and eloquent and detailed verses about the stories within these religions.
     
  25. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Leviticus was written by the Levites after the Babylonian exile and read to the people for approval.. It had nothing to do with God. The objective was an effort to keep the Jewish people separate from their neighbors (gentiles) and unique.
     

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