A Palestinian came on a forum I was on once to answer the question why they voted for Hamas. They voted for them partially because Fatah was so corrupt and Hamas gave to the poor, did good social work. They also voted for them because they knew Oslo was dead. http://972mag.com/protective-edge-the-disengagment-undone/94528/ I think that also answers a few of the other questions you have raised.
Europeans care a lot about Palestinian suffering. that's wh Britain and Sweden have just recognized Palestine. that's why there are lots of boycotts of food and other products from Israel. Israel commits crimes and law violations against Palestinians, and much of the world reacts to this.
Who is denying this? It's obvious that the allied commanders [and politicians] knew that dropping many tons of fire bombs on German cities [and Japanese cities, before of the nukes they used fire bombs as well] they would have killed a lot of civilians. But that was strategical for the conduction of the war. IDF [and Israeli politicians] are in the same condition: if Hamas hides in urban areas in Gaza and if its logistic military support is there ... that city becomes a strategic licit target. And despite how "smart" can be modern bombs and missiles, civilians will die. On the other hand, I cannot grasp why [according to international war customs] Palestinian terrorists in Gaza should consider strategical to hit the civil quarters of Sderot [do IDF hides its assault brigades among civilians in Sderot? I don't think so ...]. This is also why I'm well reluctant to call them "Partisans". They are terrorists.
You are trying to create a difference which isn't there in an attempt to make Palestinians appear as monsters whereas your people would never stoop to that. Britain bombed Dresden and other German cities deliberately to kill civilians in order to get them to scream for the war to end. They targeted civilian populations...and as I think might have been said already, so did Israel in her creation, Deir Yassin being the most famous example but by no means the only. The main focus of Israel's drive during her ethnic cleansing was the mass murder and rape of civilians resulting in the mass fleeing of more civilians. This is absolutely the deliberate targeting and massacring of civilians for a political gain. If we look at Hamas and rockets, we can see that they are simply firing them - they have little power over where they go. However they are well aware that they are firing them at an area which used to be home for many of them before they were ethnically cleansed. Hamas has said it would prefer to kill soldiers and when it can this is what it does. The tunnels for instance found in Gaza going to Israel all led to military facilities despite the reporting. http://972mag.com/were-gaza-tunnels-built-to-harm-israeli-civilians/95279/ Hamas is no different to anyone else in this.
You are trying and inventing an equivalence among the terrorists of Hamas and partisans in EU during WW II, this is the problem. I'm not saying that all Hamas members or all Palestinians are terrorists [how could I?]. I'm saying that while Israel ha been recognized and has obtained the support of the great powers [UN recognized Israel ...] and so they are not occupying their own territory [how could they?], Palestinians are attacking a sovereign foreign land [as I was saying before: it's like Italian Partisans went to fight to Germany sustaining that they were going to liberate an occupied Italian territory]. Btw, Palestinians and Arabs in general complain that Israel doesn't respect UN resolutions ... Well, Palestinians and Arabs show a great disdain for the United Nations just not recognizing Israel. And it's clear why they are not doing that: once they recognize Israel they will can no more sustain that they fight to liberate an "occupied" land [which is substantially a political lie to go on with a geopolitical competition in which the Palestinians are expandable pawns.
Again trying to paint a distorted picture. It was yourself who introduced WW2 to the argument as above. I however was not talking about Italian partisans, who would by the way have killed any German who got in their way. I was rather talking about the deliberate targeting of civilians by the UK and Israel. However if you wish we can keep it to the Israeli terrorism before she managed to take over the Ancestral homeland of another people. Though having superior weapons, Zionist Jews killed old civilians, women civilians, children civilians and babes in arms. It was very wrong as you put it that 'the great powers' recognised Israel but at the time the West were feeling so awful about the holocaust they would have done anything asked. Zionists always hid behind great powers - first Great Britain and then the US when it superseded Britain. It does nothing to change the reality that these people are firing at where once was their ancestral home which they were ethnically cleansed from - ethnic cleansing being a crime against humanity. However in stark contrast to the close contact Zionist Jews had when they massacred Palestinians, Gaza militants simply fire their rockets in anger, killing as many in 13 years as Israel kills in a few seconds. Like it or not, people with no hope and no other way use terrorism. By refusing to engage in dialogue, Israel has left them with that as their only option and as I said before when rockets go off from Gaza is is usually as a response to the killing or some other attack on a Palestinian - whereas when Israel massacred the Palestinians it was to steal their land. It isn't just Palestinians who complain about this. It is most of the world. Israel is saved by the US vetoing at the UN in her favour. I am hopeful this will soon stop. Let's just start a little reality. The PLO recognised Israel in the 90's. Hamas will not recognise Israel till Israel recognises the Palestinian State on '67 borders - not the little bantustans with no congruity or possibility of financial and other viability which Israel talks about unilaterally declaring. People who were ethnically cleansed for Sderot and other places have every right to still consider them their home, and as I said, ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity. One of the worse things about this is that the people from those areas protected Jews when they needed protection. However a solution of sorts was presented at Oslo. Israel has failed to carry this out. Yes, it removed it's settlers from Gaza but has kept it under occupational siege. It simply moved it's settlers over to the West Bank where they have been stealing land and tormenting the Palestinians since. Israel has no intention in removing herself from the occupation. As such by law guerilla war is acceptable. You might also like to have a look at the killing and injuring of West Bank Palestinians by settlers. I am pretty sure it significantly exceeds those killed by Gaza rockets. When Israel ends her occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, then come back and talk to me.
The Jews can return to their ancestral home, but the Palestinians cannot? Where is justice in this scenario?
When youll see Israeli jeeps in Palestinian villages - then youll know Oslo is dead. - - - Updated - - - Why? there is an Arab agreement about the Jewish part? seems to me we deny each other rights at same time. - - - Updated - - - I can just as easily say the Palestinians havent declare their borders....
Sorry Gilos you have already admitted it was dead when Rabin died. Only last week I was watching a documentary where most of the ex Shin Bet leaders said that Rabin was the only leader who had ever showed any interest in finding a solution and unless someone could give them a shove to develop such an interest, although you will have won all the battles, you will lose the war - you will lose Israel. You believe the bible is history. You believe God is an Estate Agent. Whatever Israel is doing in Palestine/Israel it is not for any God given land right. see this http://www.sizers.org/inheritanceofabraham.pdf Regarding the Palestinians firing rockets from Gaza whose parents/grandparents used to live around Sderot. Given that they are imprisoned and suffering much like Jews were in the Warsaw Ghetto, it certainly is understandable that they do not give a damn about firing weapons in that direction. I was recently reading how these people helped Jews in their time of need so even more so. However though on semantics, Palestinians cannot say that Israel has a 'right' to be there, given that there was nothing just about it, given that she got it by killing and ethnic cleansing of them and even worse when they had over time offered sanctuary to Jews in need, while they cannot say 'right' or 'just' when you still kill them, treat them more like stray dogs than human beings and have done nothing to cause them to do anything but hate you, which they do, they do at the same time recognise that you are there as a fact and that you are not going anywhere. Regardless of what the Palestinians say or do, the world will do what it can to end the occupation. Once that is done it is up to you to change and to show yourselves as people worthy of respect and friendship. You have done none of that up till now. Where Jews have made moves for reconciliation, after some apprehension, Palestinians generally are open and appreciative. Unfortunately it has been very few. Instead the oppression and occupation gets worse and worse. Really would be a good idea if you began thinking the people whose Ancestral Homeland you have taken have rights too.
In the 1950s and 1960s the European press covered all the small massacres by the Israelis in Lebanon and the West Bank ... and they were never mentioned in the US media... so the Europeans do know... have always known about the violence and injustice.
Yes but I ment in the sense of coming to a halt, i do not think it will move forward anymore than it did in Rabin days, Oslo achievments are tengible and exist still, it might collapse to an all out war. Yes, saw it myself, good stuff. I agree with them. I know the Bible historic parts that have an external evidance as well - to be history, not the myth part. My point...and of most "Zionists" here is those abuses of Arab rights were made in the same time Arabs abused Jewish rights and its wrong to present the Arabs as pure and naive as you do, they had their own national aspirations and fought, murdered and raped toward them. - im not demonizing them here I can understand their side but you need to understand it was bloody times to all.
Your reluctance is irrelevant - Hamas is resisting a brutal military with whatever means available - just as Europe's Partisans/Resistance fighters did against Nazi military occupation. Who are the real terrorists ? As every Israeli from childhood , is conditioned to serve as soldiers , to defend the Zionists ill-gotten gains , Palestinians stolen lands , its hard to tell who/which Israelies are "Civilians" I learn from an experienced eye witness that IDF is in fact the World’s Largest Terrorist Organization Question : Q: Joe; as a former airborne special operations commander with a remarkable experience in intelligence affairs, you have had the opportunity to visit some of the Palestinian territories and lands Israel occupies. What was your first impression upon visiting those areas? What’s your analysis of the Israelis’ treatment of the Palestinian people? A: -- The poverty of the people obviously forced to live in what was for all intents and purposes an enormous outdoor prison run by sadist monsters and sociopaths was heart breaking. I have been in more than a few impoverished nations but the combination of the struggle of everyday life coupled with the fact that these good people were occupied by the largest most barbaric brutal terrorist organization on earth was heartbreaking. Soldiers would beat and humiliate old women children and other defenseless civilians with a rage and brutality unparalleled in my experiences with terrorists in Nicaragua and El Salvador. The wanton murder of children was the crimes that will burn in my mind forever. Remember these brave people have their backs to the sea with no place to escape Israeli brutality Worth adding- is the fact that every dollar for every bullet that murders every Palestinian child is bought and paid for by American taxes! Every white phosphorous bomb that burns the flesh off little children in their own yards, every rocket, every plane that carries that rocket into the side of a school building or a hospital ambulance is a gift from my countrymen- I am ashamed to say. Even the Jew driven Caterpillar bulldozer that smashed the life out of wonderful caring young girl named Rachel Corrie was a gift of death ‘from America with hate’ for anyone who would stand up for some poor Palestinian farming family – be they Christian or Muslim. What hypocrisy. We claim to be a Christian Nation – yet – in the very name of Christ – two out of every ten Palestinians that we are accomplices to the murder of – are also Christians. Among knowledgeable intelligence people – the so called IDF – is correctly termed: ‘world’s largest institutionalized terrorist organization’. I know something of real terrorism and have had unique experience working with the heads of state of friendly foreign nations who requested my assistance and skills as an advisor on counterterrorism. I have observed legitimate military organizations as well as terrorist groups in other nations and the IDF fulfills the most stringent description to a terrorist. They attack and murder innocent civilians, murder public officials as well as news media personnel, attack medical facilities, bomb and destroy homes and businesses, target helpless civilians especially defensless children and infants schools churches and mosques. e Been there seen that – yet should I or any humanitarian attempt to share these ugly truths with my own people, the influence of the evil Israelis is such that even in our churches, the truth is banned and censured. ===== "Q: You have had the experience of visiting Israel in person. How has been the treatment of Palestinian children and women by Israelis? I don’t have a pre-disposition, but from your articles, I can understand that the Israeli soldiers behave toward the Palestinian children and women quite brutally. Is that right? A:---- I had substantial experience observing the treatment of Palestinian children by the IDF and it was always brutal, barbaric, cruel, dehumanizing and often ended in outright cold-blooded murder. The average American simply either never gets to see or hear of these war crimes against children or doesn’t believe anybody could be that sadistic or, sadly, they just don’t consider a Palestinian’s life is worth anything as they have been infected with the Israeli mentality that these children and all Arab people in general are nothing more than “cockroaches,” “ === In Gaza City outskirts our IDF jeep escort suddenly came to a screeching halt and a soldier with an FNFAL jumped out and ran to the close by roadside to confront his threat and nemesis, a half naked 5 year old child, standing by the roadside with tears streaming down his dusty cheeks, standing defiantly against the fifth most powerful military in the world, arms raised high, brandishing his threatening weapon, an egg sized pebble. This ‘terrorist’ I was later told, was probably an orphan who had witnessed his home bulldozed to rubble, his olive trees uprooted , his sister raped and his parents murdered by IDF terrorists. There he stood trembling but defiant, knowing he would be dead in a matter of seconds. The ‘brave’ Israeli drew his weapon down to an aiming position just as I leaped our of our embassy vehicle, raced to within a few feet of the Jew and aimed my camera at the would be murderer and screamed that he had better kill all of us if he murdered that child as I would show the pictures to the entire free world press. He gave me a dirty look, uncocked his rifle, rose to his feet and returned to his jeep. I breathed a sigh of relief and returned to the CIA vehicle. Inside when we got under way, one of operatives seated next to me said, “You know you just saved that kid’s life!” Before I could even gather my wits to respond, a second member of the troop commented that, “Yes, but so what? That kid won’t live to see the end of the week. They shoot them like rats here in their own land”. Nobody else spoke for sometime and I never forgot the message of the incident. The Israelis there knew no bounds to their cruelty, whether murdering journalists or baby children; the more vicious and sadistic the act the better they liked it. One particularly savage twist to murdering children was to allow the snipers to take with them vicious hungry attack dogs. For their amusement, these sick people would shoot the child and then turn the dogs loose while the bereaved, horrified parents, friends and relatives would try in vain to recover the body of their precious child before it was eaten. This of course added an additional perverted twist to the murder of the helpless child as the snipers then shot the parents of the child as they attempted to reach their baby. These incidents were well documented by international human rights groups, physicians and eye witnesses. Try as I might; no Jew-controlled American newspaper would carry the story as it would be an embarrassment to our fine brave moral Israeli allies and besides. It was not as important in the eyes of most Americans as the all important NFL Super Bowl ‘games’. Look up the definition of ‘games’: diversions for children. Thus so is the priority of the American people today. The Jew IDF has also frequently used children tied up on their military vehicles to be used as human shields. I witnessed this cowardly act at least once. Their level of cowardice of these Jews made me sick to my stomach! Perhaps the most vile and reprehensible acts commonly committed by the IDF was the practice of murdering a pregnant Palestinian mother by shooting her through her belly in such a way as to murder the unborn child as well. It was such a common occurrence that these brave moral soldiers would wear special T-shirts that would show the Mother with a sniper’s crosshairs over her stomach with the caption: “ONE SHOT- TWO KILLS”. Once again – these things cannot happen in any civilized nation’s military without express permission and approval of the authorities. I could write volumes regarding the atrocities of the Israeli IDF against civilians, all well documented and corroborated, but hopefully the few examples I have presented will give testimony to the criminal and demonic nature of these monsters -- by Captain Joe Cortina is a former airborne special operations officer and U.S. Army Training Center commander. He subsequently embarked on missions as intelligence investigator and anti-terrorist advisor and traveled to different countries in the Middle East and Central America. His visit to Israel was an opportunity for him to realize the anti-American atmosphere governing the Occupied Palestinian Territories and the feeling of resentment and antipathy the Israeli citizens have toward the United States despite the all-out military, financial and political support and backing which Washington offers to Tel Aviv. ==== More : Israeli High Court: Israeli Soldiers Used Palestinians as Human Shields 1,200 Times Israeli soldiers have systematically used Palestinians as human shields. Since Israel’s incursion into the West Bank in 2002, it has used Palestinians as human shields by tying young Palestinians onto the hoods of their cars or forcing them to go into a home where a potential militant may be hiding. http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014...-used-human-shields-1200-times-2006-2011.html ----- .
I read the Opion article........what a crock..... OFC Hamas fought soldiers - because soldiers guarded the settelments at that time!!!! there were no soldiers before the OP started yet the tunnels were dug Months before that heading toward the settelment!! mind you suggest that Hamas that shot thousands of mortars and rockets into civilian residents - does not want to harm civilians !?!?
Gilos the concept of an all out war against the Palestinians is make belief and minimisation. If Israel attacks them it will be a slaughter. As you will know the British Parliament by a massive majority voted to tell the Government to accept a Palestinian State alongside the Israeli one as part of a two state negotiated settlement. Now what should give pause for you to think is that included in this was many people who previously have been very pro Israeli including one whose family were involved in the creation of Israel and who has shut his eyes to every lie that Israel has told the International Community and I trust you are aware of them. They can no longer support Israel. These are your most strong supporters. If you are losing them you are going to become totally ostracised except with your new Saudi and Egyptian friends. Having some time for reading I have further found out that there is talk, and you yourself have spoken about this, of Israel on her own declaring the Palestinian state on what would be only 80-85% of the West Bank that is 80-85% of 22% of the Palestinians ancestral homeland. This would be acceptable to no one. The advice was to ask for the end of the occupation not a Palestinian state per se. Such State would clearly also need the power of defence. If you agree with them then you ought to be changing your thinking. The deal is 67 borders with only minor swaps. Israel has now and always has had the power. Israel has had to offer nothing and basically that is what she has offered. She has just taken and taken. Now I fear there may be no hope left for the Palestinians. I think it may be too late but I suggest if that is so, it is also the end of Israel as she has lived. Have fun with ISIS, Egypt and Saudi Arabia because that is your future and to be frank where you belong taken from the direction you are heading and that there looks like there is nowhere near the energy within the population for the necessary withdrawing. Rather more and more you are getting into 'Hate all Arabs', harming those who are your citizens, trying to take their jobs away and them being attacked on the streets while everyone turns a blind eye - except for your small number of activists who do speak up regardless of the threats they receive and who possibly at the moment are the holders of your humanity. There is minimal historic archaeological evidence. Gosh his name escapes me for the moment but one of our Journalists chose to work from Nablus I think. It was him who said that Israelis were taught the bible was history. It ain't. However even if it were God is not an Estate Agent and the bible gives you no more right to live in Israel than it gives Isis a right to behead people who do not think the same way as them. There is also increasing questioning about whether the Exodus ever took place. Likely the people you are killing and throwing off the land are the most direct descendants of the ancient Jews - or a large number of them. It appears Israel took on the Bible as a way of justifying it's take over of another people's homeland. The Church of Scotland believes this is a wrong interpretation and Christian fundamentalists have cause great harm by believing this. Academics believe it was a wrong move as likely this will be shown in the not to distant future to be false and then what will you fall back on. You are there now but you have no more right to be there than the Palestinians do - indeed a lot of the time less. Nonetheless you are there and people accept you there in your State called Israel if you would just get the hell back to the 67 lines which already give you 78% of historic Palestine. Israel does not because no one has ever made her. She has the power so she does what she wants. The rest of the world has been quite wrong to allow Israel to act in this manner. I know as well from what went on in Gaza and reading that I did that Israel, en mass, that is the vast majority of her people are moving in a direction of inhumanity towards the Palestinians so full of what they believe are their rights with no idea that all human beings have rights when we live with humanity. Problem is you have continued to abuse Arabs. As you became more powerful still you abused more. I believe you over rate anything wrong an arab does. It is not that I think they are pure at all, it is that I understand why they have acted as they did because anyone who had another group of people first coming into their country for sanctuary and then deciding they wanted to take it over would find themselves under attack. You know, because I have put the link in, that the British saw the early Zionists as extremely aggressive and acting like the Nazis. I also know that there were others who wanted to include the arabs who wanted to work with them and to make Israel a part of the middle east rather than a European state in the middle east and if they had been able to have their voice heard you may well have had an extremely good, harmonious and inclusive state in operation for decades. Unfortunately as the British archives noted, the people who gained power and created what became Israel had instead a Nazi view of ethnic separation. I have read how many people had to keep their mouths shut at the beginning while the text books were being written telling the children a different story than the truth which was to some extent then found again by the new historians through their study of Archives, till Israel in terror hid them again. Gilos Israel has everything. She has the people in Gaza imprisoned. A hundred thousand without homes, almost half a million without water and sewerage in the sea. Israel killed over 2,000, a quarter of whom were children and she injured around 12,000, half of whom will be maimed for life and then she left them in that hell hole which she will make a great deal of money from when it is being rebuilt but which is not fit for human habitation. Oh yes, she also took half of their land....and she left them, just left them in that mess, in that hell, with nothing to hold onto and while she was attacking Gaza her citizens were cheering the death of the Palestinians and signing songs about killing all their children. Israel won't speak to them to improve relations or talk about removing her sieges. Israel just waits till she can, to show her lack of respect for Palestinian life, mow the lawn with them again. Each time she does it, she does it worse as she gets away with it. Israel shows herself to have lost all humanity concerning Palestinians. As you know I believe Israel deliberately engineered this war to destroy the Palestinian Unity Government which she saw as a great threat. Next time she will likely kill half the people of Gaza. For the people of the West Bank the situation is hardly better and you now talk of war, meaning the slaughter of them. What Israel did to these people broke my heart. I can't forgive Israel. Israel has stepped over the line for me.
BUNCO... (ancestral Home of the Arabs) Go open a book please and read history... You master English for the WRONG causes!!!
I believe they are supportive against Hamas who is of course supported by Qatar whom the Saudi's see as competition. I have also read they like Israel now because of the fanatic religious. I have read that Egypt, Jordan and Saudi all have a pack against anything they can term Isis and the Muslim Brotherhood or anything concerning that which is Hamas. She did not speak up against Israel's actions. While I am sure there are many people there who felt for the people of Gaza just like there were Egyptians who tried to get through and were refused by Egypt with very basic humanitarian support, it does seem that Egypt and the Saudi's and possibly Jordan as well now have a pack against the Palestinians.
Saudi Arabia is NOT friends of Israel... and Qatar is NO competition for KSA. Saudi Arabia wants peace in Palestine and the HAMAS leadership is an excuse for Israel to reject peace and continue the ethnic cleansing. Who is "she"? Saudi Arabia did speak out against Israeli actions in the Gaza airstrikes.. quite loudly as a matter of fact. The Israelis have been trying to convince the world that KSA is their buddy for over a decade.. Its a lie.
But if it does break, if the Palestinians decide oslo is void and attack full force from all sides- you think anyone in Israel will stop to think about our "friends" in the UK or anywhere alse in the world ? OFC I regard a Palestinian attack since its them that want to change the status que and they need to decide on diplomatic or armed struggle. That depends on what area you define as "Palestinians ancestral homeland", I got a feeling its also Jewish ancestral homeland. But if there can be no negotiation on land, if Arabs just expect Jews to fold half a million Jews and hope for the best, then yes, on sided withdraw from what we think is fair is better than keeping the army control we have now. I can tell you right now - there will be no understanding about Jerusalem, too many died over it. The "thinking" you pin on me is not really my thinking, nor is it my ppl's thinking, its just racist stories you patch together to form the reality you need in order to shock other ppl into action, The 67 deal does not work for us, the conitinous attemps of muredr on my state were only prevented by the sacrifice of my ppl, we won but at costly price, now, after we won you say lets roll everything back like nothing really happend ? because you lost ? I dont think so. 67 lines wont work, we will not split Jerusalem or banish its residents, land swop for Jerusalem might-perhaps be possible. And I've learned that to most Europeans the Bible is just fable stories about Samsson, Josef, Abe, Noach....all the myth and moral stories.....it ain't. most of the Bible tells about the kings and prophets, about the wars. politics, in fact you can find the same story in two books each taking the side of another rival in propaganda style that hints its a fight on the opinion of the readers at that time, many of those stories are verified enough to know there is much history in there, for example the Assyrian seige of Jerusalem that can also be found by Arch find, with the name of the Israeli king as written in the Bible. We did not invent ourselves, our religion or our history just to reach this exact point in time to have an excuse to fight Arabs, there are ppl that have an interst to spin things around them and the Palestinian conflict as the only trouble in the world, but its really not, we are much greater than that. Im not talking about war......you said Oslo is dead and I just ment it could die IF they go to an all out war, I dont think what you write is THE truth - its just a part of it becasue you contiously ignore the Arab side of this conflict - you never wrote a single thing that you think the Arabs did wrong - yet you accuse me of being blind and brainwashed. I take for granted the rights of 2 ppl, not 1, I see responsibilty 2 nations- not 1, one is stronger I agree but that is not a crime by itself!, one side should withdraw from the land it holds thus ending the settelments efforts and dreams to a full Israel land, but the other side must also take responsibility and understand that by violence, defeat and whining - you will not win. by sticking to war inspite of that....well I have no problem to defend myself for that. I gave it shot and willing to withdraw. - - - Updated - - - Stop it Margot, everyone know you're crazy about me.......
Well however you want to put it Saudi Arabia has problems with Qatar. Personally I think she wants power. I did see a link you put in suggesting this but like others was not convinced. It isn't just them who are saying it this time. http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/saudi-arabias-crocodile-tears-over-gaza-1866358040 http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/joseph-puder/israel-and-saudi-arabia-unlikely-allies/ http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/08/16/318941/the-axis-of-evil/ Possibly it is less obvious than I thought. During the time Gaza was being attacked there was much talk about Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia being in collusion with Israel, particularly the Saudi's and Egyptians...now they do not seem to be coming so quickly on a search. However http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...Saudis-belated-criticism-too-seriously-370963 Despite that being the Jerusalem post, they do say Israel is not paying much attention to what the above are saying now, I suspect it is right and as people are presenting it. They are now in cahoots with Israel but have to take care about the effect on their home population. If Israel does not end up with them as friends I suspect she will soon be quite alone.
