It wasn't a hoax

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Dec 6, 2021.

  1. popscott

    popscott Newly Registered Donor

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    So.. you are claiming it wasn't a hoax because... of the questionable and shady actions of the FBI and others.

    the FBI spying on the Trump campaign was a true event...
    The FBI and intelligence community sending spies and informants in to spy on the Trump campaign actually happened which led to not just one Crossfire investigation but to several different Crossfire investigations.. under the premise that the Russian government was colluding with the Trump Campaign.
    The FBI did not investigate or send informants and spies into the Clinton Campaign
    The FBI CIA and who else, approached and spied on the Trump campaign overseas and off of US soil because they can't pull it off due to laws in the US.

    While disregarding the fact that the whole thing was a hoax and no one was ever charged with colluding with the Russian government to affect the 2016 election. .... the fact the hoax should have stopped right there before being rejected for the first FISA warrant..... the fact any FISA warrants against Carter Page, who has never been charged at all, was never granted until the fake unverified dossier came into play... The fact the very first FISA application to a court that would "indict a ham sandwich" was rejected because the investigator's did not have enough evidence to obtain the first warrant because the FBI investigation Crossfire Hurricane was a hoax

    So yes the whole Crossfire Hurricane investigation was a hoax...
    and a bad one at that.
     
  2. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Pure partisan crap. That is what Repubs have turned the government into.
     
  3. cabse5

    cabse5 Newly Registered

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    I didn't miss the point of the OP. The Original Post is filled with conjecture and purely designed to hate Trump.
     
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  4. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but it existed, no hoax.
     
  5. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    MSNBC is a platform. I go by who the host is.

    I would do Chris Wallace, but not Tucker Carlson..

    Get it?

    Mika Brzezinski and Joe Scarborough are reputable.

    Sorry, your "kill-the-messenger' tactic lacks merit.
     
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  6. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not true.

    FYI, CH was adequately predicated, and it's initiation had nothing to do with the Dossier

    Read the executive summary of Horowitz's IG report.

    https://www.oversight.gov/sites/default/files/oig-reports/o20012.pdf

    By that measure, and given the 500 page Mueller report documented, annotated, evidence provided, it cannot be a hoax.

    Just because an investigation has flaws, as just about every investigation of one kind or another does, does not equal 'hoax'.

    I therefore come to the inescapable conclusion you do not know what a hoax is, or isn't.
     
  7. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your unsubstantiated vacuous allegation is not a counter argument.

    Please demonstrate with more elaboration, reasoning, evidence, sources for your claim, etc, to support your allegation.

    Otherwise, I can only conclude you did miss the point of the OP, entirely.
     
  8. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
  9. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Apparently you missed the part of the OP....

    ......The Steele dossier undertook to answer the question
    "What the heck is going on with Trump and Russia?" ...It
    was to silence that question that the outgoing Trump
    administration appointed a special counsel of its own to
    investigate its investigators. John Durham has now
    issued three indictments, all for lying to the FBI about
    various aspects of the Steele dossier.

    None of these indictments vindicates Trump's claims in
    any way. It remains fact that Russian hackers and spies
    helped his campaign. It remains fact that the Trump
    campaign welcomed the help...It remains fact that Trump
    and those around him lied, and lied, and lied again about
    their connections to Russia.
     
  10. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Hardly, as stated in the OP

    It remains fact that Russian hackers and spies
    helped his campaign. It remains fact that the Trump
    campaign welcomed the help...It remains fact that Trump
    and those around him lied, and lied, and lied again about
    their connections to Russia.


    Why would Putin want Trump?

    Let me tell you a little story...

    Whenever an American oligarch goes to Russia, Russia FSB(KGB) starts a file.

    They are always on the look out for influencers in America they can exploit.

    When Trump did a pageant in Russia, he came into their radar.

    They already had a big file on him when he declared his candidacy.

    They perceived he would lift the sanctions,

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wh...ump-team-sought-lift-sanctions-russia-n767406


    and with Trump's appointment of Tillerson, that sealed their conviction.

    Why?

    Because he was the former CEO of Exxon, and Exxon had purchased the rights to develop 63.7 million acres in Russia's north seas/siberia, etc. It was no accident that Tillerson was appointed Secy of State.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/...-and-rosneft-partner-in-russian-oil-deal.html

    Mr. Putin had stated the potential investments by both companies to be as high as $500 billion, Exxon officials said the figures, at least initially, would more likely be in the tens of billions of dollars.

    And what is standing in the way of that development?

    Obama's sanctions. Trump wanted to lift the sanctions, but the republicans and democrats threated to override any veto,

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/russia-sanctions-bill-senate-to-pass-241034

    so he was forced to implement them, but he dragged his feet, he slow walked them for about a year.

    Trump had hinted at lifting Sanctions, treated Putin obsequiously, he's an oligarch, they have a file on him, they perceived he might become their 'useful idiot', which, indeed, became true.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
  11. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Hillary did not do such a thing, and you have no evidence of it.

    None.

    Trump overtly solicited foreign help on international TV.

    It remains fact that Russian hackers and spies
    helped his campaign. It remains fact that the Trump
    campaign welcomed the help...It remains fact that Trump
    and those around him lied, and lied, and lied again about
    their connections to Russia.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
  12. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Evidence, please.
     
  13. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    It remains a fact the fake "dossier" was sourced from a foreign agent to effect a US election.

    Deny that.
     
  14. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't watch Tucker Carlson. I do not trust MSNBC. End of story.
     
  15. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now we are getting somewhere. But context and precise wording mean a lot. I'm sure I don't need to remind you Steele's work for Fusion GPS was a continuation of work originally contracted as oppo research by Repubs. Of course the intent was to find something to use against Trump. That's the nature of oppo research just as Trump's efforts to get dirt from the Russian government on Hillary were. The GRU was working in Don's interests.
    The thing to keep in mind is nothing, absolutely NOTHING about the dossier.......its origin.......its accuracy or lack thereof........the fact that it was ultimately not used by Clinton's campaign........changes anything we know about interactions between members of the Trump campaign and Russians or that the Russian government actively pursued a variety of measures to support Trump's candidacy.
     
  16. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fake news. Steele was hired after that to launder info.
     
  17. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Someone used it in the campaign against Trump. The yellow bath was publicized by someone, for instance. There were all sorts of rumors that the "Russians had something on Trump".
     
  18. cabse5

    cabse5 Newly Registered

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    Dude, the reason for the dossier was to investigate Trump.:roll:
     
  19. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Has anyone said it wasn't?
     
  20. popscott

    popscott Newly Registered Donor

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    The first rejected FISA warrant had everything to do with the Russian hoax and the fact the court that “would indict a ham sandwich “ didn’t have the dossier and didn’t give the warrant because the lack of evidence the Russian hoax represented through is spy ring and clandestine behavior….

    let this sink in…

    The Russian hoax was just that… and the FISA court did not fall for it.
     
  21. mtlhdtodd

    mtlhdtodd Well-Known Member

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    If you want accuracy in the Russia collusion story, begin every reference to it with "Once upon a time" and finish it with "The End".

    It could be said that it reads like a very bad political thriller, but that gives it way more credibility that it doesn't have.
     
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  22. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Downright lies and deceptions are not errors.
     
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  23. cabse5

    cabse5 Newly Registered

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    The Original Poster of this thread said the dossier was about Trump and Russia. I just connected the dots and made the reason for the dossier more specific and clearer: The dossier was about investigating Trump.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
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  24. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are entitled to your opinion. It's just that it isn't supported by the facts as determined by IG Horowitz who assigned no nefarious intent behind the flaws he found in the applications. What he has documented is certainly of concern, but it is of concern because it could lead to the FBI’s misinforming the court on material matters, not because it did.
     
  25. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, it did and the testimony proved that.
     
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