It wasn't a hoax

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Dec 6, 2021.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Steele Dossier is a red herring which the right uses to obfuscate a greater truth.

    I will quote David Frum, who has elegantly and poignantly explained it far better than I ever could. For those of you who do not know David, he is an author of a number of books, lecturer, and the conservative journalist at *Atlantic magazine.

    This quote was from an article published in the Atlantic, but since that is behind a paywall, I will use YouTube interview with Frum by Mika Brzezinski.



    The Steele dossier undertook to answer the question
    "What the heck is going on with Trump and Russia?" ...It
    was to silence that question that the outgoing Trump
    administration appointed a special counsel of its own to
    investigate its investigators. John Durham has now
    issued three indictments, all for lying to the FBI about
    various aspects of the Steele dossier.

    None of these indictments vindicates Trump's claims in
    any way. It remains fact that Russian hackers and spies
    helped his campaign. It remains fact that the Trump
    campaign welcomed the help...It remains fact that Trump
    and those around him lied, and lied, and lied again about
    their connections to Russia.

    Anti-anti-Trump journalists want to use the Steele
    controversy to score points off politicians and meda
    institutions that they dislike...But if you choose, as a
    journalist or a consumer of journalism, to focus on
    smaller issues, you need to retain your perspective about
    what is bigger and what is smaller.

    So, by all means, follow the trail on Steele...Be alert to
    how the twists of the trail block your view of the
    surrounding landscape. Otherwise, you may discover too
    late that you have also been misdirected and misled, and
    that in setting out to explore a small truth, you have
    become a participant in the selling of a greater lie.


    For those who subscribe ( perhaps the Atlantic allows
    a couple of free views?)

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/trump-russia-senate-intelligence-report/620815/

    More on the subject

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/08/russiagate-wasnt-a-hoax/615373/

    *And, as a side note to all of you 'Kill-The-Messenger' types on the right, who will inevitably challenge The Atlantic as being a reliable source, well, despite your opinion, Atlantic is a reputable magazine. Oh, you think I'm biased? Well, I've quoted a number of reputable conservative publications in the past, such as the Wall Street Journal, and the National Review ( which has declined a bit since William F Buckley's passing), the Christian Science Monitor, to name a few. On mediabiasfactcheck.org, the Atlantic gets a slightly left of center rating, (because it includes right of center journalists such as Frum ), which would be compared to the WSJ which also gets a respectable rating, though right of center rating by MBFC. But the important measure is the factual rating, and WJS gets a 'mostly factual' and Atlantic gets a 'high' rating on the factual scale. These are, therefore reliable sources. As for the right or left meter on MBFC, as long as it's not extreme, it's pointed out that all the bias meter means is that the journal selects articles favored by the right or left, and the closer to the center, the better, in my view. Does it mean an article is the absolute truth? No, it doesn't, but it is, as a reputable source, it is therefore a quotable source, whether you agree with the source or not. So, if KTM is your argument, you will be ignored. The point is, when it comes to reliable sources, you can refute the article's premise, data, etc., but not the media.


     
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  2. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    MSNBC? Lmao
     
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  3. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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  4. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    I assume you started the thread, as I have started ones on other topics, out of frustration with repeatedly seeing a flood of recent misrepresentations about the dossier, the Mueller report, and Russia's involvement in the 2016 campaign generally. Joe's reply being a perfect example of the obfuscation to which Frum (I'm very familiar with his work) saliently refers.
    As I know all too well certain members of the board will never, ever, accept the simple, uncomplicated facts Frum points to. They seek to disassemble the greater truths about Mueller's findings by failing to distinguish what he revealed with whether it met the high bar of a criminal conspiracy Mueller himself set. They think disparaging the unpolished, rough intel Steele put together as part of his work for Fusion GPS (he didn't know Fusion's client was Clinton's lawyer) changes what we know about the Trump campaign's actions. It doesn't. No one, not you, not I, will ever convince them of this. They are lost in the haze people like Billy the Bagman, Trump, and right wing media have created to prevent a clear understanding of what transpired. They will never find their way out. In large part because they do not want to. Because once they challenge these fatuous beliefs the rest will fall like dominoes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  5. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, some click bait farmers offered to buy $100K of Facebook ads for Trump who responded, "Awesome! I'll sell out my own country any way you demand for $100K!!!"
    Hillary did the Uranium deal.
    Trump blocked Russia from selling fuel to West Europe.
    Beijing Biden ended the block of Russian fuel to West Europe. And his unemployable drug addicted hedonist son collected millions from Moscow. You think he "earned" that money?
     
  6. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

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    Is this OP article a joke?... There is not one thing in the dossier that was ever "verified"

    Prove me wrong.
     
  7. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Donor

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    And that is a great accomplishment because........?

    Why does the US need to be involved in deciding where Europe buys is fuel from?
     
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  8. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    "They (you) are lost in the haze people like Billy the Bagman, Trump, and right wing media have created to prevent a clear understanding of what transpired." Try doing a Google search for "sweeping and systematic."
    This one I'll provide free of charge......https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/facts-uranium-one/
     
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  9. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    2004
    Left: Here's a Killian Document.
    Right: Uhh,Microsoft word in 1973? Couldn't be.
    Left: Okay, it's false, but the underlying story is true.

    2016
    Left: Here's a Dossier
    Right: Same old tricks, huh?
    Left: STOP USING RED HERRINGS!
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
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  10. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "There is an old saying in journalism: You’re only as good as your sources. Now a Nov. 3 indictment of Danchenko on five counts of lying to the FBI has suggested that Steele’s sources were not very good at all.”

    "Analysis: With immunity, Danchenko would have every incentive to answer truthfully. In his FBI interviews, he appeared relatively open about his reporting methods and his sources. Some, including in the FBI, have theorized that Steele’s methods were so sloppy that Russian disinformation could have infected into the final product. The indictment raises questions about whether some sources were too close to the Democrats or would benefit from a Clinton victory."
    The Steele dossier: A guide to the latest allegations - The Washington Post
     
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  11. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is a dead issue, and yes, it was a hoax.

    Hillary sold access and influence for years through her foundation.

    The Biden family is indebted to and compromised by the communist Chinese.

    But you don't care. You just keep beating this dead horse.
     
  12. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    Putting aside the specious conflation of the Killian document with the dossier Rather got most of the Bush/ANG story right. Just sayin'.
     
  13. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yet you can't substantiate any of the assertions you made unless you rely on the alternate reality created by right wing media.
     
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  14. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    So it is a fact that Hillary Clinton enlisted the help of foreign agents in order to try to affect the outcome of an election.

    Could you peoples double standards be any more shameless?

    Sorry your gal cheated and still lost
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  15. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

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    Exactly... The FBI and Mueller investigations was looking for crime to pin on a man.. it never found it as neither did the other half dozen attempts through half a dozen investigation through various US committees ... they started a counterintelligence investigation, not a criminal investigation looking for a crime, never done before in our history.

    There never was a collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government to affect our election.
    Here are those investigation that produced zip but cost the tax payer millions

    FBI investigation - In July of 2016

    The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence - On January 13, 2017

    The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence - On January 25, 2017

    The Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Terrorism - On February 2, 2017

    The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform - On February 16, 2017

    The Senate Judiciary Committee - On May 17, 2017

    Special Counsel - On May 17, 2017

    Acquitted on two articles of impeachment - Feb 5, 2020

    The Senate Intelligence Committee - August 18, 2020
     
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  16. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not sure how that is relevant. Bush flew one of the most dangerous one hundred series jets, F-102. Texas National Guard F-102 guard units were sent to Vietnam. I saw them. Just sayin'.
     
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  17. cabse5

    cabse5 Banned

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    SIAP. Not a hoax, huh?? But the dossier was never proven. Like I've posted numerous times, this is the dawning of the age of misinformation...The Steele Dossier is an example of misinformation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  18. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

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    yea this pretty much covers that one ""substantiate any of the assertions you made""

    https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC_Finance_Report_FINAL.pdf

    Even though almost all of the Committees’ records are from U.S. agencies and U.S. officials or persons, Democrats have repeatedly misconstrued the facts of this investigation and have smeared it as a Russian disinformation campaign. In doing so, they conveniently have ignored their own long history of meeting with Telizhenko and his yearlong work for a Democrat lobby shop. If Democrats are concerned that Telizhenko presents any risk of advancing disinformation, it is notable that the Ranking Members have not expressed any curiosity about his work with the Obama administration or Blue Star Strategies. The records acquired by the Committees also show that Hunter Biden and his family were involved in a vast financial network that connected them to foreign nationals and foreign governments across the globe. Hunter Biden and Devon Archer, in particular, formed significant and consistent financial relationships with the corrupt oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky during their time working for Burisma, and their firms made millions of dollars from that association while Joe Biden was vice president and the public face of the Obama administration’s Ukraine policy. Rosemont Seneca Thornton, an investment firm co-founded by Hunter Biden, received $3.5 million in a wire transfer from Elena Baturina, who allegedly received illegal construction contracts from her husband, the then-mayor of Moscow. Moreover, Archer’s apparent receipt of money for a car from Kenges Rakishev of Kazakhstan while Vice President Biden was in Kyiv is especially concerning in light of the timing. And finally, Biden and Archer’s work with Chinese nationals connected to the Communist regime illustrate the deep financial connections that accelerated while Joe Biden was vice president and continued after he left office.

    upload_2021-12-6_10-0-28.png
     
  19. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I predict a factually false, directionally true diary in 2024.

    Or maybe a writ.
     
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  20. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    Irrelevant. Evidence and actions suggest Trump did his job curtailing Russian power, while the Democrat party has not (except with our involvement in Syria. The left does seem to adore getting our kids killed in conflicts that have nothing to do with us). Why would Russians want Trump, when the Democratic party so enthusiastically spread their political butt cheeks for them? I don't think they would.
     
  21. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    From the OP.......The Steele dossier undertook to answer the question
    "What the heck is going on with Trump and Russia?" ...It
    was to silence that question that the outgoing Trump
    administration appointed a special counsel of its own to
    investigate its investigators. John Durham has now
    issued three indictments, all for lying to the FBI about
    various aspects of the Steele dossier.

    None of these indictments vindicates Trump's claims in
    any way. It remains fact that Russian hackers and spies
    helped his campaign. It remains fact that the Trump
    campaign welcomed the help...It remains fact that Trump
    and those around him lied, and lied, and lied again about
    their connections to Russia.
     
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  22. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Donor

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    Let me ask again: Why is it our job to decide where Europe buys their energy?
     
  23. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    It couldn't be more relevant that millions of members of the POT have been duped in to believing something that is objectively false. Not only because it is damaging to a participatory democracy reliant on an informed electorate, but because it's possible to achieve the deception.
     
  24. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    You would do it to curtail Russian power. Beijing Biden went right back to helping Moscow as his unemployable son continues to get millions from them.

    Timely: https://www.bitchute.com/video/Fetky1sCNmk/
     
  25. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not a hoax or a red herring, just sloppy work by Steele, provoking raised eyebrows and amused smirks among professionals, and oversold to his patrons.
     
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