Japan´s PM: "We will stand up to China, the world wants it", Can Japan stop Red Hans

South Korea probably would. When outnumbered like never before at Pusan they held their ground fighting off the communists and eventually repelling the commie invasion. They then left that nation to govern itself and let millions of free South Koreans escape the socialist hell that is North Korea. Would the Knights have done that? What other service?

 

One reason, your arrogance and pride. It wasn't China who tried to invade Japan it was the Mongols and Manchurians and the only reason why the Mongols failed was because a typhoon hit their fleet. In 1944 no such luck anymore the gods of Japan were no longer on their side the USA successfully invaded Japan and one reason why the USA did not allow China to take part was because they know there will be a bloodbath. Japan since ancient times have been stealing science and technology from China their writing system is taken from China for many years Japanese pirates and later Japan government have tried many times to invade China they have failed many times. It would be in the late 1800's after Japan started to adapt and steal western technology that they succeeded in conquering Korea, Taiwan, Manchuria and in 1935 Japan launch a full scale invasion of China at a time when China was fighting a civil war in spite of Japan's technological advantage they failed to control China it was China's resistance against Japan that threw their war time time table off.

Japan's culture are all borrowed or stolen from China from their writing system, dress code, religion, martial arts, music, dance and legends.

 

Its USA which repelling the hans invasion. the South Koreans had No chance... Finland is much batter example but they will stay neutral

i agreed with you on Knights subject

 

Your arguments are sound against China actually advancing military action against the US or one of it's protectorates. The "allies" you talk about would indeed be there and China has known that for decades, they do not forget history and the "Opium Wars" are critical in their dealings with the west. Akuma is correct in saying that China has not won a modern war, but they have a way of not really losing either. But we have seen the indifference of those same "allies" when it comes to Nepal and Tibet; they have no compunction against devouring neighbors.

I did not mean to assert that China's lender role with the United States would be a weapon in a war, indeed once the shooting starts anyone but an idiot can see there is little or no leverage there.

It is however a much more powerful weapon used as a non military alternative to war. But not just borrowed money, but in economics generally; what can you buy today that was not made in China or did not have raw materials supplied by China? How much of the US and Canadian economies NEED the outflow trade to China to stay in the game? And as you point out, sustained in flow of resources is an issue with them....that's why you see them gobbling up Tibet and Nepal and extending influence throughout the Southeast Asian sphere as they expand their availability of resources....diversifying.

 

I just want to know one thing.

Who the hell is 'red hans'?

 

It is common sense to defend yourself, even the jihadis will do that. It is chivalrous to defend others seeking nothing in return, with plans to leave taking nothing afterward.

 

China allowed the mongols to rule them. Because that, China is 100% accountable. They are responsible for their weakness. If they saw teh mongols win, they should have killed thenself before acting as proxy against Japan. China is way below us. I wouldn´t even shake ones hand....

 

That is a little more than in error and ignores United States history. The war was brought to a close through diplomatic efforts that led to an "on again, off again" armistice of two years duration.

The first armistice was signed in July of 1953. Harry S. Truman left office in February of that year. The end of the war came as a result of the political rejection of Truman's "Containment" policy and Dwight D. Eisenhower's commitment to end it.

There is not a military strategist that would ever say that Truman, or the war mastermind Douglas McArthur "lost" the Korean war, as it inflicted 200% more casualties on Chinese and Russian troops, devastated both their economies and almost ruined North Korea.

The Korean war is seen as the first "limited engagement" warfare of the modern ere, the new "no winner, no boundaries" wars like Vietnam, Afghanistan et al.

I truly wish Americans knew more about their own history. The Korean War wasn't even a solo "American" war....no one ever mentions the "allies".....Canada, Britain], Australia...

 

Oh I meant when he recalled MacArthur. If repelling the invasion = losing the war, (like the reply I quoted inferred), then it was Truman who "decided to lose the war" under those standards.

The subject was things Americans have done for others, not what the Canadians have done etc... THere was French soldiers there too etc...and when the French are the topic of the conversation I will mention them.

 

why you did not kill yourselves in 1945?

 

This is equivalent to the Falklands/Malvinas War between Argentina and the United Kingdom. Other countries have their sympathies, but apart from Taiwan who cares whether China or Japan owns this particular set of islands. It might be nice to see the JDF (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)-smacked by the Chinese.

 

Probably not by themselves. At least not indefinitely. China has nukes and a larger military and an economy to support them.

I think Japan could arm themselves sufficiently eventually. I support an independent Japanese military. I think they would make a great counter to CCP adventurism in the Pacific.

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I think it would be the opposite. China has a good army and decent airforce, but their Navy is just awful. The only real threat China can hold over Japan is missile attack, and that would precipitate US involvement if they ever tried it.

 

That is why Japan was nuke twice and they'll get nuke the third time if Japan don't stop picking on China a fight.

 

What else can stand up other than a tail which keeps wagging at its master?

Advance? What advance? Just like Your Majesty's Duchy land, they are in a deep slumber.

 

OK, fair enough. My intent was that it was Truman who advanced the war in the first place, an unwinable war as it turned out.

There is a defense of recalling McArthur, one I am not sure I embrace, that it was a wise move, as "I shall return" was chomping at the bit to use nukes against the Chinese along the North Korean frontier. Russia had nukes at the time and some say HST actually avoided WW3. But then those same critics often say Harry started the cold war

 

China will not use nukes first. Japan is a Non-NATO ally of the US...they would risk retaliation from the US if they attempted to nuke Japan.

Japan's nuking before was different. 1) There was no other nuclear power back then, and the US had no deterrent except itself and 2) The US was invaded first, and in a place that was clearly recognized as US soil by everyone, including the attacker (Japan).

 

i can think at least about couple of things)

Red Hans do (economically) well last 20 years . am i wrong?

 

Do you think we europeans should be all good brothers? If you were to know how actually a mess EU is, then you wouldn't say something so ingenuous. Seriously, if the conditions are good and pair, then people can begin to think about being brothers, but as they are, we pretty much end up to blow EU and refuse any kind on union.

I think the same pretty much goes for Japan, Korea and China, if conditions are impair how could they possibly think to melt each other and form an union? Plus, japanese are too hard minded and proudful, they do not consider others as their pair.

 

I despise China. I wouldn´t even shake their hand. I would prefer death over an alliance with them. Why should we belittle ourself and seek friendship with China?

It would like the sun shaking hands with the oort cloud.

 

Why didn't your self-proclaimed "perfect, superior pure blood" species kill themselves in 1945 but accepted the indignity of foreign domination instead?

Why didn't your bloodthirsty army commit hara-kiri but gave Douglas MacArthur the "same respect they would give the Emperor" instead?

Why didn’t your wartime Emperor kill himself but picked the option of "enduring the unendurable and suffering what is insufferable" instead?

Japan's Surrender
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=13

It won't take a genius to find the Chinese roots of your writing and culture despite all the self-deception and glorification of your self-proclaimed "perfect, superior pure blood" species.

As long as Uncle Sam continues lying on top of your Wa Country, your self-proclaimed "perfect, superior pure blood" species can never stand up.

 

Who is laying on your species? It went extinct when the mongols, manchu and whatever interbred with it. Thats why you are so dark now...Is there any nation that did not defeat china or raped your country? You lost evry war in history.

 

I have posted about this several times on this forum.

This information I will now post I received from a...."Friend"....I have in the Chinese Navy....as I have been to China many times as well I have been to Japan many more times.

The Chinese/Japanese dispute over the Senkaku Islands became even more of an issue when Energy Resources were found there and the Chinese Communist Party....which has been attempting to increase the size and lethality of their Navy as the Communist Party has an ill fated and idiotic concept that by purchasing and old and very out of date Soviet Aircraft Carrier.....which they only use for training no matter what they might say....and increasing the number of Chinese Naval Ships.....they actually think this might be enough to intimidate Japan and the U.S. to allow them to accomplish several laid out goals of the Chinese Communist Party.

The Chinese Communist Party...which I will label...CCP....has a COMPLETELY different ideology of what it thinks it can do and what it can do compared to actual CHINESE NAVY LEADERSHIP...(CNL).....as the CNP....is constantly interfering and restructuring the Chinese Navy in ways that the Naval Leadership KNOWS is IDIOTIC COMMUNIST IDEALISM.....very close to the way the NAZI's used to indoctrinate the Hitler Youth with ideology that Nazi Germany was INVINCIBLE and could defeat anyone, anything or any plan as the Nazi's had stationed IDEOLOGY OFFICERS which was an arm of the GESTAPO....stationed in every base, ship, airfield...etc.

Now...this is what happened.....the Chinese Communist Party Leadership went and ordered the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army Navy.....PLAN....to develop both the Navy Troop Carrier Ships, the equipment and Military Plans to INVADE TAIWAN....and then later....to INVADE FORMER CHINESE ISLANDS LOST TO JAPAN DURING WWII.

Now when the (PLAN)....Peoples Liberation Army Navy....Leadership was ordered to prepare for these Communist Leadership plans.....the PLAN Leadership were saying things among themselves like...."ARE THEY OUT OF THEIR F@%#ING MINDS!".....and...."THE AMERICAN NAVY AND AIR FORCE WOULD BLOW US OUT OF THE WATER BEFORE EVEN ONE OF OUR NAVY TROOP CARRIER SHIPS WAS WITHIN 200 MILES OF TAIWAN!!!"

See....the PLAN Leadership is VERY MUCH AWARE that China's Military although very large in the sense of numbers of soldiers....MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.....if you don't have a Military System to support them when you are using FORCE PROJECTION.

The United States Military is more than just very good at doing Force Projection and not only having Hundreds upon Hundreds of bases of every U.S. Military Service stationed all around the world and existing in most countries at all levels.....but we can not only strike within minutes....BUT SUSTAIN THE STRIKE AND PROVIDE LOGISTICAL SUPPORT UNENDING FOR ANY MILITARY INCURSION.

China cannot......continued....

AboveAlpha

 

I was trying to explain that to him before. I don't know how he can claim superior blood when his nation was already brought to it's knees by a foreign power. When his nation relies on others for it's defense and energy needs. When his nation is not economically dominant, and when the best universities in the world are not in his nation.

It is not hubris so much as delusion. It is absurd to claim "superior genetics" when one's nation has been passed up by others on so many levels.

 

There are cultures where military power is idolized and anyone conducting trade in preference to being a warrior is looked on as being cowardly. We could say they worship Mars, the Greco/Roman god of war, rather than our god Mammon the god of money.

When Bismark united the German states, he imposed the Prussian military culture on all of Germany and we saw the end result. Since nations like people have an affinity towards those they find culturally similar, it is not by chance that Germany's allies were Japan and Turkey. ..the other Mars worshippers.

Germany was completely destroyed during WWII in order for the culture to change and end Europe's wars. Of course if the Kaisar had won WWI and established Germany as the hegemon of Europe, (which might have been the natural order of things), the wars might have ended anyway. But they didn't win thanks to the Soviet hordes coming from the east, and the U.S. with its own semi German culture.

MacArthur controlled Japan, and what he didn't do was change its culture. I read the Japanese were awed by MacArthur who was a giant of a man in comparison to the Emperor who like all Japanese of the times, were five inches shorter then than now. MacArthur could have easily done away with him, but I knew a lawyer on the war crimes tribunal and he told me that Pres. Truman didn't want him convicted. Had the press found out that the trials were rigged, the lawyer I knew was to be the fall guy.

The Emperor at the time said he wanted Japan to become Christian, but MacArthur felt that it couldn't be imposed on the people, so he asked Congress to send ten thousand missionaries, but they never went. Probably because of the different denominations, I mean who would go and who wouldn't.

 

So...continued....

So....the PLAN Leadership had no choice but to attempt to develop a Chinese Naval Strike Force....even though PLAN Leadership knew they had absolutely no chance as far as any attempted invasion of Taiwan.

THEN....in what my..."Friend"....in the PLN....Peoples Liberation Navy....has labeled....THE SINGLE MOST EMBARRASSING CHINESE NAVAL OPERATION IN CHINA'S VERY LONG HISTORY.....the Chinese Communist Party Leadership....CCPL....ORDERED....PLAN's Leadership to send ships in close to the disputed Senkaku Islands as in what my..."Friend"....told me were the EXACT WORDS of the Chinese Communist Party Leadership...CCPL....."Get our Naval Fleet in as close as possible to the islands as we will teach the American's and Japanese TO FEAR US!"

The PLAN Leadership protested the ordered mission EXHAUSTIVELY....telling the CCPLeadership things like...."WE ARE NOT READY!!!!" "To allow our Naval Fleet to be that close to both the massive American Naval Fleet and especially the American Carrier Groups and Sub's as well as allow ourselves to be exposed and WITHIN EASY RANGE of Japanese Island and Mainland Defense is not only not smart and bad tactics but as well if a mistake was made by either side because we are there in force and there so close to Japanese Territory and AMERICAN LAND BASES IN JAPAN....any mistake by either side will result in the complete DESTRUCTION OF OUR ENTIRE FLEET!!!!"

My..."Friend told me that the CCP Leadership told their PLAN Leadership that they wanted the Chinese Navy to be taken SERIOUSLY for the FIRST TIME by the U.S. Navy."

So...since PLAN and PLAN's Leadership did not have a choice....they set sail for the Senkaku Islands.

Then my...."Friend told me that when they started to get close...and he said...EVERYONE....the average Chinese Sailor....the equivalent U.S. MARINE LIKE SOLDIERS....that were on the Chinese Ships....the Officers all the way up to the rank of Admiral....AND EVEN THE CCP IDEOLOGY OFFICERS....absolutely everyone was PHYSICALLY SWEATING and had upset stomachs and the like as they all knew if ANYONE ON ANY SIDE MISREAD THIS ACTION OR MADE A MISTAKE....my..."Friend" said..."We knew if that happened we would all be shortly dead."

Then....THE WORSE POSSIBLE THING HAPPENED!! My..."Friend"....said..."It was EMBARRASSING! on a level that is hard to explain. Being Chinese what happened in the minds of everyone in the PLAN and ESPECIALLY the CCP Leadership considered it to be an embarrassment beyond comparison!!!"

This...HORRIBLE WORSE CASE SCENARIO THAT WAS AND STILL IS SO EMBARRASSING WAS.....in the words of my..."Friend"....we are all Military Men and have our pride just as all Soldiers and Sailors from any country do so it was hard on us even though we are still alive. We sail to the disputed Senkaku Islands and in close to mainland Japan and close to the American Navy and Air Force Bases not to mention the American Navy Sub's WHICH WE KNOW HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING US SINCE WE LEFT CHINA EVEN IF WE CAN'T DETECT THEM.....and we are all trying to be BRAVE AND HONORABLE and of all the things that could have happened we all knew that what happened was the worse possible scenario even worse than being blown out of the water!"

"What happened...my..."Friend"...said....is that THE AMERICAN'S PAID US NO ATTENTION! The Japanese DID NOT RESPOND AT ALL!!! We are right on their door step with our sizable fleet and NEITHER THE AMERICAN NAVY OR JAPANESE MILITARY IS DOING ANYTHING IN RESPONSE....until when I thought it couldn't get any worse....IT DID!!!"

"A USN.....SEA WOLF SUB....the most advanced Hunter Killer Submarine in the WORLD...surfaces a few miles away from the main body of our fleet. I NEVER though I would EVER even see one of these American Sub's as American Sub's NEVER surface in such situations and we have no idea where they are which for a Sailor is the biggest concern because we KNOW they are there but also KNOW that if they want to target and destroy us at will...they can."

"So...this American Sub surfaces about 2 Miles from our Flag Ship and signals to us..."Hello!....We are authorized by Admiral %$@#*% to give your Admiral #$@&^%#$ this gift which we will leave on the surface in a Survival Float. Please accept this Gift in the good nurtured manner it is being given. We will leave it and then leave the area."

So my..."Friend"....said that this orange floating survival inflatable is left and the Sea Wolf submerges and leaves. He said that for 1 hour and 45 minutes the Chinese Admiral and his aids are yelling and screaming at each other trying to decide if they should go get it so they decide to get it and send a small inflatable craft with 3 sailors to do so..

They are told to assess what is being given as a gift and make certain to open any containers to determine if it is dangerous or if it is a bomb. So my..."Friend" said..."I was on our Flag Ship and EVERYONE at this point knows what the American's said and we are all arguing why we are going to get it and why endanger the lives of a few sailors to pick up this..."GIFT."

He said..."Our Sailors bring it back and at this point I have been told it is not dangerous but I still don't know what it is....so....I ask a Higher Ranking Friend of mine what is in this 1.5 meter high....2 meter long and 1.5 meters wide rectangular case the American's left our Admiral for a gift.....and when I found out....and in a VERY short time....a matter of minutes EVERYONE FOUND OUT....as this revelation sunk into each and every man on the ship....and before the end of the day everyone in our FLEET....knew what the American's had given us as a GIFT."

"We opened it up and it was heavy because inside was 8 large sealed buckets surrounded by ice.....and in each sealed bucket was.....CHOCOLATE, VANILLA, STRAWBERRY AND PISTACHIO ICE CREAM!!!! 2 Buckets of each flavor!!!"

"At first we kinda laughed....and then that turned to MASSIVE EMBARRASSMENT!!! The Admiral decided right after to sail back to China and although WE WERE ALL TOLD TO KEEP QUIET about what happened....there was just know way this could be kept under wrapped."

AboveAlpha