Jesus, I’m calling you out.

Nothing appears to be real to you in the bible except walking on water, a virgin birth, magic curing of the sick, a zombie who listens to your prayers, etc. (the Jesus part). Wow.

I do appreciate the civility that you show on this forum, however, Margot (I could learn from you on that.) I'm sure you are a very caring individual. Thanks for posting.

 

More accurately, you're a former professing Christian who never understood the first thing about Christianity, and you've esaped from the frying pan only to find refuge in the fire.

 

I understood that Jesus was worse than Hitler...unless you can show us here and now that Hitler's treatment of the Jews (shortening their life by say 50 years on average) was worse than Jesus' treatment of the Jews (ETERNAL, not just in one life time, brutal torture where skin is re-grown and then burned off again.)

 

Most beieve that hell is just the absence of God, not literally hell fire.. and Muslims and Jews don't believe its permanent.

 

That's just ludicrous, and I'm not even a Christian.

 

So would you rather be a Jew in Hitler's concentration camps (and your life is shortened by 45 years by a gas-chamber), OR, would you rather be Ghandi, and according to the teachings of Jesus, be burned alive for not just 45 years, but burned FOREVER, even though you are a very moral person who did great works and worked for peace? Please pick one.

 

So if the Bible refers to hell as "hellfire", and talks about torture, is it wrong?

 

I am trying to tell you that Ghandi read the Sermon on the Mount and admired it.. he understood the political situation of the times.. In context.. he understood the Roman occupation.

When you say that God condemns those who aren't Christians, you miss the message in the book of Jonah.. which was that God also loved the people of Nineveh... even though they were the enemies of the Israelites and Jonah hated them.

As it happened.. the people of Nineveh were also more prosperous and culturally advanced than the Israelites.

 

Its metaphor..

Just like .. "my father's house has many mansions"...

 

If after 2000 years we still don't really know the answer (and we clearly don't - ask 10 Christians and you'll get many different answers), then the ("all-powerful all-knowing") Jesus is one of the worst communicators of all time, on a subject (the after-life) that's certainly not a trivial matter (if it is true). Pathetic.

He won't clear this all up for us, which he could do in a heart-beat, right here, right now (unless he's not really the most powerful being in history)....but he chooses to watch us suffer. Pathetic. My 6 year-old niece is more moral than Jesus, since she'd go out of her way to clarify all this.

 

So let's just say for arguments sake that the Bible DOES condemn those who don't follow one particular superhero....would you condemn the bible in that case?

 

God didn't condemn the people of Ninevah.

The Israelites with hostile to everyone around them and competing with them.. so differentiate between the political message and God.

 

nothing whatsoever; and in your present state of mind, you never will.

 

Correct....if I rely on logic, reason, science, common sense, and critical thinking I won't become a religious, superstition-based, fear-based person.

 

Ghandi, actually. But then, I don't believe Ghandi is in hell. Besides, Ghandi liked Jesus.

 

You are not worthy of debating because you skirt every direct question posed to you. You are scared to face the truth. It appears that you are afraid of what some unproven zombie (Jesus) will do to you if you answer a question honestly.

I won't bother you by asking this more than this one extra time: So let's just say for arguments sake that the Bible DOES condemn those who don't follow one particular superhero....would you condemn the bible in that case?

You won't answer directly, but at least it will get you to think about how illogical you are.

 

Please, you obviously think with your anger, which you feed at every opportunity.

You certainly are, as is demonstrated by your every post in this thread.

 

How could I condemn the Bible when I understand it, how it developed and why? Of course I have been studying it for over 50 years.

The OT is about the history of the Jews.. and full of ancient legends from Babylon and the Ugarit..The Jews reinterpreted those stories making them their own.. to give themselves a history and identity. But first and foremost they were teaching narratives in a culture that could not read... gripping, epic stories that people could remember.

Couple that with political ambitions... as in my God is better than your God. We are favored by God. The truth of the message becomes very confusing to all of us.. and factor in that the Israelites were a small, landless tribe with NO rich cultural heritage seeking to stay separate from their neighbors and not assimilate..

You have to take it in baby steps...

For instance.. the creation story is about the emerging competition between nomadic people and settled people who farmed. Its also about marriage..Man's relationship with God and redemption.

The Exodus is not about 'slavery' in Egypt.. its about emerging from the bondage of ignorance .. again its a tale of redemption.

Remember that as soon as Moses went up on the mountain, the people turned around and built an altar to Baal... even after they had seen the 'miracles' that God used to redeem them from Pharaoh.

I think you are struggling with the story board literalism taught in Sunday School.

 

Modern Secular Humanism does not have a "hell" for non-believers, so it's clearly not fear based.

 

I appreciate that well-thought answer, and your historical knowledge.

Modern Secular Humanism is more moral than most all religions because it WILL INDEED condemn belief systems that teach that those who don't follow one particular superhero get horrific unfair punishment. I'm glad I moved to a more moral belief system.

 

It's certainly ok to be angry at Jesus for causing more people to stop thinking with using science, reason, and critical thinking than any other person in world history. Jesus has caused more of that than anyone, so yes, I'm angry at his failure. He must be stopped.

 

I have no problem with secular humanism and in most regards it is compatible with faith in God.. You have clearly given this a great deal of thought an attention. Don't allow poorly trained pastors drive you from faith..

 

The bible does not say that non-Christians (repeat, non-Christians) who simply LIKE Jesus do not go to hell. Come on. No, synagogues etc. are full of people who are allegedly going to hell, according to biblical principles. That's hatred. Jesus taught hatred. But modern Secular Humanism does not teach hatred.

 

I'm afraid you're wrong.
John 14:6 "....No one can come to the Father except through me."
Jesus was sick. Non-Christian Ghandi is burning right now, according to the teachings of Jesus. Sick. Now you can see why I left that cult.

 

Jesus was barely understood by the apostles..

The Jews of the first century were living under hostile Roman occupation and some pretty cruel laws.. When Herod's building projects came to an end there was also wide unemployment. The Jews were divided into several factions.. Some were complicit and trying to cooperate and get by.. others retreated to the desert like the Essenes, others were zealots and rebels.. still others were sicarri who murdered Jews who cooperated and Romans alike..

They were tearing each other to pieces. .. and most were expecting or hoped for a warrior king who would emerge and drive out the Romans. Enter Jesus.. who taught non-violent liberation theology.