Jewish Chronicle forced to apologise for Gaza appeal advert...

Ethereal · Aug 19, 2014

Borat said: ↑

I am sure you are familiar with the concept of targeting civilians which is what Hamas does and which is a war crime even if they miss and the concept of targeting Hamas which is a legitimate military operation even when Hamas uses human shields and civilians die.
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I don't consider it "legitimate" to kill civilians just because your enemy is hiding among them.

CJtheModerate said: ↑

Hamas has fired over 3,000 missiles into Israel. The only reason Israel has not suffered tens of thousands of civilian deaths at this point is because of the Iron Dome.
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True, but it does not change the outcome.

Israel has been attacking places where Hamas are keeping their missiles. In an effort to maximize civilian casualties, Hamas has been putting these missiles in schools, hospitals, homes, etc.
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You may consider that a valid excuse for dropping bombs on civilians, but I don't.

CJtheModerate · Aug 19, 2014

Ethereal said: ↑

True, but it does not change the outcome.
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In other words, "Hamas fired 3,000 missiles into Israel, but that's okay, since Israel shot them down".

You may consider that a valid excuse for dropping bombs on civilians, but I don't.
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Israel has been doing everything they can to minimize civilian casualties. While Israel has been warning people about these attacks and telling them to get away, Hamas has been telling them to ignore what Israel says and stay put.

Dutch · Aug 19, 2014

Ethereal said: ↑

Only 1,900, eh? You say that like you're talking about cockroaches.
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No, I'm saying it like 5,000 bomb raids into the world's densest, target rich corner of the world should kill helluva more people then 4 raids per person. Do Israelis know how to operate them F-16s? Doubt...

Borat · Aug 19, 2014

Ethereal said: ↑

I don't consider it "legitimate" to kill civilians just because your enemy is hiding among them.
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That's certainly your prerogative... International law and the Geneva Conventions consider it perfectly legitimate to target enemy military targets even if civilians may get hit, according to the law those who deliberately co-locate civilians and military targets are committing war crime.

Borat · Aug 19, 2014

Dutch said: ↑

No, I'm saying it like 5,000 bomb raids into the world's densest, target rich corner of the world should kill helluva more people then 4 raids per person. Do Israelis know how to operate them F-16s? Doubt...
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Don't forget that half of them were actually militants so it's 1 civilian per 5 sorties... in densely populated areas where Hamas deliberately places military targets in civilian areas such low rate of civilian casualties per sorties is nothing short of amazing.

alexa · Aug 19, 2014

For those who seem to be completely unaware about the division within British Jewry and need references.

This was something I studied before ironically in connection with antisemites who blamed Jews for everything which Israel is doing. I did it on a different computer. I probably could find most of them if I were to spend about 2 boring days looking through past papers on JFJFP. I do not have the time or interest to do that. So I just did a search

British gatekeepers of Zionism have shut the door on liberal Zionists

Why did the UK umbrella Zionist organization decide to exclude Yachad, a pro-Israel pro-peace movement, and how does that cultivate open, public debate in the Diaspora regarding what defines Zionism in the 21st century?

By Hannah Weisfeld, Founder/Director Yachad, Ha’aretz
March 12, 2013

Who are the gatekeepers of Zionist discourse within the UK Jewish community? The dust is only now beginning to settle on a major division that has emerged within Anglo Jewry over just this issue.

Two weeks ago, the Zionist Federation, which describes itself as the “umbrella organization for the Zionist movement in the United Kingdom”, and has over 120 member organizations and over 50,000 affiliated members, rejected the application of Yachad, the British Jewish community’s pro-Israel pro-peace movement, to become an affiliated member.

Haaretz as well as the front pages of the Jewish press in the UK reported the story, with the leading community newspaper, the Jewish Chronicle, claiming that “Zionist turns on Zionist in ‘anti-Israel’ attack”. But headlines and front pages aside, the ZF’s decision highlighted the very real need for Jewish communities worldwide to cultivate a much more open and public conversation regarding who is entitled to define Zionism and its aspirations in 2013 and onwards.

The Zionist Federation originally stated that there were ‘no grounds’ for its rejection of Yachad. Later it suggested that the organization had not shown itself to be supportive enough of Israel, citing Yachad’s support for the upgrade of Palestinian statehood at the United Nations, and arranging visits to East Jerusalem and Hebron as proof of this.

When the Zionist Federation was founded in 1899, its role was to campaign for the creation of a homeland for the Jewish people. Over a hundred years later, and statehood achieved, that role has clearly changed.
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cont'd here http://jfjfp.com/?p=40794

Link to Yachad's site

http://yachad.org.uk/

Last week, the democratically elected national executive committee of the National Union of Students, representing over seven million students across the UK, voted to support the call for a campaign of boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) against Israel. The condemnation from the Union of Jewish Students was immediate. They decried the vote as “extremely problematic”, saying the decision will “divide student groups, undermine interfaith relations, and suffocate progressive voices for peace.” But the motion was proposed by a Jewish member of the NEC, and supported by several others.

The Union of Jewish Students (UJS) claims to represent Jewish students studying in the UK and Ireland, but its membership is self-selecting and therefore ends up reflecting a limited range of values and beliefs. Consequently the false narrative presented by UJS, that to be Jewish is to be a liberal Zionist, is claimed to be the view of all Jewish students.

This is symptomatic of the approach taken by Jewish youth movements, organisations, charities and many local communities, around the United Kingdom. But it is this approach that is alienating a new generation of young British Jews, who are, in increasing numbers, looking for alternative networks and organisations to work and debate in, ones that allow dissenting, or even questioning, voices.
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https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourki...z/jewish-societies-and-intolerance-of-dissent

If any more evidence were required to demonstrate that the Community Security Trust (CST), the private charity that describes its mission as monitoring and combating antisemitism on behalf of the British Jewish Community, is abusing its mandate by providing political support for Israel, look no further than its response to reports of anti-Jewish hostility arising out of the Gaza crisis.

The UK’s Jewish News quotes from a statement by Mark Gardner, Communications Director of the CST, on the rise in reported antisemitic incidents since the beginning of the most recent conflict with Hamas:

“Anti-Semitic incidents will subside along with the images on people’s television screens, but the long term damage to Jews of anti-Israel boycotts will persist.

“One consequence of this war will be a lot more boycotts, either through choice or intimidation. Just as Israel is being singled out for scrutiny and boycott, so many Jews are going to feel the same way.”
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The conflation of the political campaign of boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS), which aims to pressure Israel to comply with international law, with attacks on synagogues and violent, abusive insults levelled at individual Jews, is completely unjustified. There is nothing inherently antisemitic in the aims of BDS yet the CST clearly implies that there is.

It’s hardly surprising that the CST takes this line, one that they have pursued for some years. It’s the line adopted by the main, establishment organizations of the Jewish community, for example, the Board of Deputies of British Jews, the Jewish Leadership Council and the Zionist Federation, not to mention the Israeli government and its representatives at the Israel Embassy in London. But providing political cover for Israel in this way takes the CST into the realm of partisan political action that hardly seems compatible with its charitable status.

.....

In the Express Gardner uses blatantly inflammatory language: “mass intimidations of supermarkets”; the extent of the UK media’s focus on Gazan child victims “indicates that . . . blood libels still lurk somewhere deep”; “Are British Jews (and those elsewhere) to be forever held hostage to a seemingly intractable conflict in which totalitarian Jihadists are sworn to destroy Israel at whatever cost?” These are not facts. They are exaggerations and speculations. The tone of the entire article seems designed to reinforce rather than calm fears. Instead of telling us that 34 per cent of British Jews believe that a person who criticises Israel and supports a boycott of Israel is “definitely antisemitic” and somehow implying that this view is justified, the CST should be explaining to British Jews that however much they might dislike criticism of Israel and the idea of a boycott, it’s a legitimate political tactic. There are probably many hundreds of British Jews who criticise Israel and approve of a boycott of some kind–are they antisemites too? Does the CST endorse such a conclusion?
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http://antonylerman.com/category/british-jews/

Anthony Lerman is an expert on antisemitism

What British Jews really think about the Gaza conflict

The British Jewish community is often portrayed as being united on Israel – but opinion is far more complex and wide-ranging than that
Jewish men walk along the street in Stamford Hill, north London. 'The centre of the British Jewish Israel 'map' has split into different factions.' Photograph: Oli Scarff/Getty Images

It suits a variety of agendas to claim that British Jews are largely united in support for Israel during this current round of conflict. Israelis and those who approve of Israel’s actions find succour in this supposed homogeneity. Conversely, Palestinians and those who support them outside the region point to what they regard as the heroic minority of Jews who share their views and in doing so hope to forestall accusations of antisemitism.

In truth though, the situation is more complex and more ambiguous. While surveys have shown that a large majority of British Jews – like Jews elsewhere in the diaspora – believe in a Jewish state and identify with Israel, there has been a significant fragmentation over the question of Israel in recent years.

A variety of positions on Israel have emerged since the outbreak of the second intifada in 2000. These range from Jewish anti-Zionists on one side, to the religious, settlement-supporting right at the other. Perhaps most significantly, the centre of the British Jewish Israel “map” has split into different factions, including those who believe Israel must always be publicly supported, those who are prepared to countenance a variety of broadly Zionist views, and those who feel that Israel must be pushed hard to achieve a two-state solution.

Some Jewish institutions incorporate – sometimes uncomfortably – those who hold to a variety of positions, and new institutions have emerged to fight for one particular position, such as Yachad, the “pro-Israel pro-peace” organisation that occupies similar territory to J-Street in the US.
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http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/23/british-jews-gaza-conflict-jewish-community

GS: “First, from a Jewish perspective, as a representative of a Jewish organisation, the first thing we do is to say that Israel doing is not in our name, Israel does not represent us, it does not represent hundreds of thousands of Jews here and in America, we won’t allow Israel to speak for us because we come from a different position – the one which is based on human rights and morality. If Israel succeeds in identifying all Jews with the horrendous actions that they are taking at the moment, it’s not surprising that there will be reaction in the world against all Jews. So we think we actually have a particular responsibility to say loud and clearly: ‘Not in our name. This is not done in the name of all Jews. This is done in the name of Israel and its current government’.

.....

GS: “I condemn any anti-Semitism, of course, but you have to look at the causes of it. And if the cause, in this case, of the growth of the anti-Semitic feeling across the world is violations of human rights on a gigantic scale, we have to address it”.

GA: “One of the achievements of Hamas is to have demonstrated that when push comes to shove, there’s really no difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. Actually, I personally regret that. As a historian I look back to a time when we have to agree that anti-Zionism was quite fashionable within British Jewish communities, but that was before the recreation of a Jewish state. And that recreation, whether you think that Israel should or shouldn’t speak for all Jews (personally, I have never met anyone who would claim they speak for all Jews, it’s a silly claim) the equation has changed”.

GA: “Clearly there is no one angle of Jewish voice on anything. We are talking about the Anglo-Jewish community: there’s no such thing. There are separate sets of communities, some of whom, unfortunately, are not on speaking terms with each other, mainly for religious reasons rather than political. So you have within Anglo-Jewry – and let’s get it in perspective, British Jews are no more than an absolutely maximum 350,000, we are a drop in the ocean of the UK population – an enormous variety of opinions, and I am certainly in favour of all sides of all debates being heard”.

......

GS: “You said that Jewish community in the UK is a drop in the ocean, we are the drop in the ocean of the Jewish community. We have 1800 members, signatories as we call them, so we are small, but I think we are significant. There are some even smaller groups which have been around for a long time which oppose to Israel’s current policies, but apart from them we are the only group that gets up on the platform and makes our voices clear, because you are right, there is a debate within the Jewish community, but the tradition within the Jewish community is it is always kept behind closed doors, and I am pointing to a real danger of that, because it means that if the world outside the Jewish community doesn’t see there’s a Jewish dissent from what Israel is doing to the Palestinians, then the outside community will think all Jews think the same, all Jews are behind these atrocious violations in Gaza, and that will stoke anti-Semitism”.

.....

GS: “What I think is dangerous is the way Israel is trying to close down the criticism. The argument is – Israel represents all Jews, it’s the Jewish state. Therefore, to criticise Israel is to criticise Jews and therefore to be anti-Semitic. And if anti-Semitism spreads to large proportions, then we know, they say, where it leads – into the direction of the Holocaust. And because now, thankfully, they received knowledge about the Holocaust in the world, it was the most wakeful and atrocious thing (I say that having lost members of the family in the Holocaust), and therefore it closes down criticism. Now, if you can’t criticise Israel, that puts Israel in an ivory white tower, then it can then take whatever actions it likes, and then it’s beyond moral reproach – that is seriously dangerous, and that is what I think is happening in Israel at the moment”.
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http://jfjfp.com/?p=63040

Polarisation of opinion
Growing support for a critical stance towards Israel was partly a reflection of the severe polarisation of opinion among Jews, which has been developing since the turn of the century. The collapse of the Oslo accords, 9/11 and the beginning of the Bush-Blair war on terror, the increased anti-Jewish hostility some commentators link to intensified extreme criticism of Israel, and the coming to power of the Sharon government led some Jews to a more definitive and open opposition. But it led others, especially a hitherto rather muted conservative Jewish leadership, to move in the opposite direction.

This loyalist backlash, although rather inchoate at first, eventually resulted in the creation of a much more defensive, fearful, ethnocentric atmosphere in the organised Jewish community. It was based on alarm at the so-called 'new anti-semitism' (defined as vilification of Israel), characterised Muslims as a threat to Jews and rallied around an Israel whose existence was perceived as under threat from, among other things, suicide bombings, rockets fired from Gaza and the power of Hizbollah in Lebanon.

Those behind this increasingly organised and determined effort, who had excellent relations with the Blair government and the support of some high profile columnists, succeeded in creating an impression that most Jews have no truck with the critical stance of the dissidents. So, even as critical groups were gaining more adherents, barriers to having a greater impact on the organised community were raised.

.....

The media war
The third factor limiting an effective response to the Gaza war is the unprecedented, tightly coordinated, relentless public relations campaign being waged by Israeli spokespeople. This is being backed up in the UK by BICOM, the Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre, a well-funded media-focused organisation.

In the past Israel has often put out confused messages about its intentions, delivered by people with poor media skills who were liable to be derailed at the first incident of major civilian casualties, especially where children were involved. The current effort has been rigorously planned over the past few years and the Israeli message heavily dominates the media. In these circumstances, with alternative voices - whether Palestinians caught up in the conflict, representatives of the PLO or Hamas, local Muslim writers, academics - fighting for space, it's not surprising that dissenting Jews find it difficult to get attention.

At the time of writing, the war continues. Depending on the direction it takes, further opportunities may arise for critical Jewish groups to make their voices heard. If doubts are sown in the wider Jewish community as a result of more incidents like the killing of people seeking shelter in a UN school, or mounting Israeli military casualties, there may be greater readiness to listen to the arguments of dissenting Jewish groups, if they are couched in language that does not alienate those very many Jews who are reluctant to listen to the truth.

.....

Remarkable change
Given that the pro-Israel consensus among the organised Jewish community in the UK was so robust from the 1960s through the early 1980s, the current, far more fragmented picture represents a remarkable change. The organised dissident groups are only one part of the story. Although it is not easily quantifiable, there is growing anecdotal evidence that many Jews are deeply uncomfortable with the way Israel treats the Palestinians, but do not feel that they can find the space or the language for exploring their concerns. It's one of the challenges facing Jewish groups critical of Israel: to find a way of giving such Jews a voice. The war on Gaza may well be another bloody milestone on the path to this aim.
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http://www.redpepper.org.uk/Dissident-Brits/

U.K. Board of Deputies rejects criticism from new Jewish group
Independent Jewish Voices accuses Board of Deputies of British Jews of failing to reflect opinions critical of Israel.
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http://www.haaretz.com/news/u-k-board-of-deputies-rejects-criticism-from-new-jewish-group-1.212240

OK, I have to get up early tomorrow morning for a hard day of child minding. British Jewry does not allow opposing thoughts. Ways in which it has suppressed this is in for instance firing Anthony Lerman who worked for them for being critical, calling them self hating Jews, ostracising them and claiming to speak for them all. If you look for instance at Yachad you will find that they are Zionists but they do believe that the Palestinians deserve justice. They have been linked as similar to JStreet in the US. Even they were rejected by the Zionist Organisation. If that kind of organisation is not accepted then clearly more people will find they have no choice but to move as others already have to being anti Zionist. That was the point I was making.

As for the US

Jews Express Wide Criticism of Israel in Pew Survey But Leaders Dismiss Findings
Establishment Sticks to Guns Even as Consensus Frays

American Jews are far more critical of Israel than the Jewish establishment, according to the new Pew survey, but Jewish leaders say the findings won’t change their positions.

Officials with leading Jewish organizations told the Forward that the 48% of American Jews who Pew says think the Israeli government isn’t making a “sincere effort” to come to a peace deal are either uninformed, unengaged, or wrong. They also asserted that those respondents don’t represent their constituency.
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Read more: http://forward.com/articles/184900/jews-express-wide-criticism-of-israel-in-pew-surve/#ixzz3ArjZzI00

Like many young American Jews, during my senior year of college I took the free trip to Israel offered by the Taglit-Birthright program. The bliss I felt floating in the Dead Sea, sampling succulent fruits grown by Jewish farmers and roaming the medieval city of Safed, the historic center of Kabbalah mysticism, was tempered by other experiences: watching the construction of the imposing “security” fence, which not only tamped down terrorist attacks but also separated Palestinian villagers from their land and water supply. I spent hours in hushed conversation with a young Israeli soldier who was horrified by what he said was the routinely rough and contemptuous treatment of Palestinian civilians at Israeli military checkpoints.

That trip deepened my conviction that as an American Jew, I could no longer in good conscience offer Israel unquestioning support. I’m not alone. Polling of young American Jews shows that with the exception of the Orthodox, many of us feel less attached to Israel than do our baby boomer parents, who came of age during the era of the 1967 and 1973 wars, when Israel was less of an aggressor and more a victim. A 2007 poll by Steven Cohen of Hebrew Union College and Ari Kelman of the University of California at Davis found that although the majority of American Jews of all ages continue to identify as “pro-Israel,” those under 35 are less likely to identify as “Zionist.” Over 40% of American Jews under 35 believe that “Israel occupies land belonging to someone else,” and over 30% report sometimes feeling “ashamed” of Israel’s actions.
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http://ideas.time.com/2011/09/29/why-fewer-young-american-jews-share-their-parents-view-of-israel/

Taxpayer · Aug 19, 2014

supaskip said: ↑

The everyday people of Palestine should not be confused with Hamas.
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Until and unless the everyday people reject and eject Hamas, it's hard to draw that line. Hamas has tried very hard to make them synonymous and the people in Gaza have not done enough to contradict that association.

snakestretcher · Aug 19, 2014

Dutch said: ↑

Nauseating? Point toward a single (*)(*)(*)(*)ing apology for anything to anyone from Palestinian media or any Palestinian entity for that matter, and then you will have moral right to call apology from Jewish media "nauseating". So far as I'm concern, apology is always an honorable thing. Palestinians and their bootlickers should try it some time.

Comments like this makes me wanna puke
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A token apology because the paper doesn't want to lose readers isn't in any way honourable. It's a cynical, snivelling, arse-licking exercise. The paper printed the ad in the first instance because it came from a non-partisan and humanitarian position which, editorially, was accepted and published.
In my book you either stick by your principles or don't pretend you have any. Pandering to a few complaining readers demonstrates a total lack of backbone. The editor of the paper should be ashamed, frankly.

snakestretcher · Aug 19, 2014

CJtheModerate said: ↑

Hamas has fired over 3,000 missiles into Israel. The only reason Israel has not suffered tens of thousands of civilian deaths at this point is because of the Iron Dome.

Israel has been attacking places where Hamas are keeping their missiles. In an effort to maximize civilian casualties, Hamas has been putting these missiles in schools, hospitals, homes, etc.
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Nonsense. Israel has been showered with rockets for years, and long before Iron Dome. The rate of Israeli civilian casualties is tiny compared with the devastation caused by Israeli retaliation.

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/BE07C80CDA4579468525734800500272

alexa · Aug 19, 2014

Borat said: ↑

I just can't help it Alexa, I love British humor.... Claiming to avoid propaganda while quoting Electronic Intifada and managing to keep a straight face....Only British comics are capable of that. Lol
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Electronic Intifada is not propaganda. It is British based. Yes, it is giving the Palestinians position but that does not mean it lies. The link to it came from this

http://972mag.com/how-europes-jews-lost-their-humanity-in-gaza/94759/

I hadn't noticed that that article was unsourced, though generally all work on the Electronic Intifada is.

Here you can read about this fanatical settler from pro Israeli point of view 'propaganda' to you

http://972mag.com/tag/uri-elitzur/

Here are a selection of articles 972 has on him

http://972mag.com/tag/uri-elitzur/

972 is independent and the articles are mainly written by Jews and/or Israeli citizens. To you they would be propaganda because they also give voice to the Palestinian position though often very measured and by that I mean they include the Israeli too. I would be very surprised at them linking to something they had reason to believe was false. However if I had noticed it was not sourced I would not have provided it.

Calling Palestinians 'snakes' however continues http://www.timesofisrael.com/influential-journalist-uri-elitzur-succumbs-to-cancer-at-68/

To you what was in
http://972mag.com/how-europes-jews-lost-their-humanity-in-gaza/94759/

was laughable......that says it all

Here is a video to illustrate what they are talking about

[video=youtube;LBdRFWAYkBk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBdRFWAYkBk[/video]

CJtheModerate · Aug 19, 2014

snakestretcher said: ↑

Nonsense. Israel has been showered with rockets for years, and long before Iron Dome. The rate of Israeli civilian casualties is tiny compared with the devastation caused by Israeli retaliation.

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/BE07C80CDA4579468525734800500272
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I am specifically referring to the current conflict.

MVictorP · Aug 19, 2014

Jonsa said: ↑

Trout,

The jewish chronicle is a jewish newspaper catering to the jewish community. Their target audience is jewish so naturally that would also encompass a certain % of extremists and a % of racists, just like any other ethnic community publication on the planet.

To condemn it as racist and/or extremist for rejecting an ad for a charity with ties to Hamas ignores the simple fact that Hamas is Israel's "sworn enemy" and has been since day one of its existence.
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Whatever governs Palestine, it will always be a "sworn ennemy" to Israel, since Israel considers it a sworn ennemy.

Yetzerhara · Aug 19, 2014

Ethereal said: ↑

I don't consider it "legitimate" to kill civilians just because your enemy is hiding among them.

You may consider that a valid excuse for dropping bombs on civilians, but I don't.
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Your comment is interesting and its typical. In your world, you think you can tell Israelis what they should and should not do when under attack.

You know what makes your comments so full of bs to me..its that you are silent on Hamas and what Israel should do. Totally silent on both counts and that renders your comment lacking in any credibility or logic.

You remain silent as to Hamaschoosing to use its civilians as shields, from usuing civilian homes, hospitals, mosques, schools, UNWRA buildings as launch sites, and armed conflict zones. Not a peep.

But if Israel tries to defend its people, from rocket attacks YOU find it unacceptable.

If someone shot at you with missiles you would you have me believe yoy would demand your government do nothing?

Using yoru logic Hamas can expose and kill its own civilians and Israeli civilians but Israel should not. Right. Makes sense.

Israel has a moral obligation to protect its people from extinction and if innocent Palestinians die which is a tragedy, it is a necessary result of Hamas' decision to use them as fodder to deliberately kill them.

More to the point if as unfortunate a targedy it is, Palestinian civilians must die because of Hamas, this insanity will eventually lead Palestinians to realize they are committing suicide and like the Irish with the IRA, its time to denounce terror before they are all wiped out in Gaza and that is an eventuality particularly when apologists like you empower Hamas to keep killing their own civilians using the delierate tactics they do to get them killed to try gain sympathy in a bull sheeyit p.r. campaign.

Right.

MVictorP · Aug 19, 2014

CJtheModerate said: ↑

Hamas has fired over 3,000 missiles into Israel. The only reason Israel has not suffered tens of thousands of civilian deaths at this point is because of the Iron Dome.

Israel has been attacking places where Hamas are keeping their missiles. In an effort to maximize civilian casualties, Hamas has been putting these missiles in schools, hospitals, homes, etc.
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Iron Dome intercepts like 40-55% of the projectiles. And even before Iron Dome, the casualties from Qassams did not eve reached 50. Little to no change. Most of them end up petering out in the sand.

It's not Iron Dome that's good - it's the firecrackers themselves which are crappy.

CJtheModerate · Aug 19, 2014

MVictorP said: ↑

Iron Dome intercepts like 40-55% of the projectiles.
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Last I heard, it had a 90% success rate. Then again, it makes no effort to stop missiles that will land in unpopulated areas, so I assume that's what you're referring to

Face. Your · Aug 20, 2014

trout mask replica said: ↑

The Jewish chronicle is a vile partisan racist and Hasbara propaganda rag. The people who read it, are by logical extension vile, mainly Jewish racist extremists. Like all corporate news outlets, it relies heavily on advertising revenues for its survival and eagerly took the shilling for this ad even though the non-political humanitarian nature of the ad is diametrically opposed to the papers racist editorial ethos. It's perfectly logical that a racist readership of a disgusting sectarian rag would take offense at a non-political and humanitarian-based ad sympathetic towards what they perceive as Arab untermensch akin to snakes or vermin. A couple of weeks ago on here I provided a link to a survey undertaken in Israel which highlighted the fundamentally racist attitudes towards the Arab Muslim population among the vast majority of the Jewish community in Israel. I'm afraid such attitudes are also prevalent among large swaths of the Jewish diaspora too reflected in no small part by the relatively healthy sales figures of the JC here in Finchley, North London.
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Israelis have been attacked numerous times by Arab Muslims, and FYI the overwhelming majority of Muslims hate Jews as well.

supaskip · Aug 20, 2014

Taxpayer said: ↑

Until and unless the everyday people reject and eject Hamas, it's hard to draw that line. Hamas has tried very hard to make them synonymous and the people in Gaza have not done enough to contradict that association.

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Almost impossible to do, considering blockades etc etc.
I mean, I know Hamas have really bad equipment, but that will still be better than the everyday people.

Look at IS in Iraq. People fleeing if they don't agree. Almost impossible to stand up to them in a country that has room for movement; confined to two small strips between Israel makes it very difficult to organize revolution.

snakestretcher · Aug 20, 2014

Borat said: ↑

I didn't say that video came from electronic intifada, I said websites featuring insulting content are part of disgusting anti-Israel propaganda, so are posters perusing and reposting this garbage on blogs and forums like this.
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Anti Israel? And why not given their behaviour. If the shoe fits...

trout mask replica · Aug 20, 2014

Jonsa said: ↑

Trout,

The jewish chronicle is a jewish newspaper catering to the jewish community. Their target audience is jewish so naturally that would also encompass a certain % of extremists and a % of racists, just like any other ethnic community publication on the planet.

To condemn it as racist and/or extremist for rejecting an ad for a charity with ties to Hamas ignores the simple fact that Hamas is Israel's "sworn enemy" and has been since day one of its existence.
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You've politicised humanitarian intent. Congratulations.

trout mask replica · Aug 20, 2014

Borat said: ↑

Right Alexa, Electronic Intifada, hundreds of other virulently anti-Israel websites in the most disgusting corners of the internet featuring video like above referring to people as zio-fascists, they're not propaganda sites...

The only reason they don't appear propaganda sites to you is because you're are just as virulently anti-Israel and just as blinded by bias, hatred and one-sidedness as they are, and just as dedicated to spreading the most disgusting propaganda you can possibly find.
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A couple of weeks ago I posted an extensive survey of Israeli Jewish opinion about Palestinian's and it echoed the racist sentiments expressed in the video posted by alexa.

Dutch · Aug 20, 2014

MVictorP said: ↑

Iron Dome intercepts like 40-55% of the projectiles. And even before Iron Dome, the casualties from Qassams did not eve reached 50. Little to no change. Most of them end up petering out in the sand.

It's not Iron Dome that's good - it's the firecrackers themselves which are crappy.
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Hey, let's dismiss these "firecrackers"? Until the lucky one hits Jerusalem shopping mall on Saturday, and bring ceiling down?

trout mask replica · Aug 20, 2014

Face said: ↑

Israelis have been attacked numerous times by Arab Muslims, and FYI the overwhelming majority of Muslims hate Jews as well.
Click to expand...

I agree that anti-Semitism is a problem. In the context of the current violence, the root cause is Israeli expansionist aggression, ethnic cleansing and occupation, factors you seem - for reasons of ideology - to want to conveniently brush aside.

trout mask replica · Aug 20, 2014

Dutch said: ↑

Hey, let's dismiss these "firecrackers"? Until the lucky one hits Jerusalem shopping mall on Saturday, and bring ceiling down?
Click to expand...

When or if this happens, you'll know doubt be the first to let us all know. I've just seen a report from CNN that said the latest round of ineffectual rockettes killed zero Israeli's while the corresponding latest Israeli bombardment killed numerous Palestinian women and children.

MVictorP · Aug 20, 2014

Dutch said: ↑

Hey, let's dismiss these "firecrackers"? Until the lucky one hits Jerusalem shopping mall on Saturday, and bring ceiling down?
Click to expand...

Why would the Likud thugs hide behind their populations? And besides, these people voted the Likud in, aint't they? Therefore they are terrorist supporters, and we are against terrorism ergo we are against these people, ain't we? So simple.

Dutch · Aug 20, 2014

trout mask replica said: ↑

When or if this happens, you'll know doubt be the first to let us all know. I've just seen a report from CNN that said the latest round of ineffectual rockettes killed zero Israeli's while the corresponding latest Israeli bombardment killed numerous Palestinian women and children.
Click to expand...

So... we pretty much know the results of every Palestinian rocket attack, don't we? Palestinian "freedom fighters" launch their firecrackers and run for the underground hideouts; Israel retaliates, Palestinian women and children die. Happens every time with few variations, right?

Then it follows, if Palestinian "freedom fighters" know in advance, their women and children will die as a result of them launching rockets into Israel, who really kills their women and children? Hm? This is not a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing rocket science (pun intended).

- - - Updated - - -

MVictorP said: ↑

Why would the Likud thugs hide behind their populations? And besides, these people voted the Likud in, aint't they? Therefore they are terrorist supporters, and we are against terrorism ergo we are against these people, ain't we? So simple.
Click to expand...

No idea what you're rambling about. Sorry.

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